Jump to content


The badger?


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

Excavatus #1 Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:08 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 18897 battles
  • 1,653
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    07-28-2013

ok.. this is from the news from 5.12.2017 about the badger..

I dont know If I missed this information earlier.. but.. look at this..

 

Firepower

The Badger's most outstanding characteristic is its damage potential. Packing a powerful 123-mm gun with an excellent rate of fire, superb accuracy, great penetration and aim time, this Brit is capable of doing about 3,500 DPM in stock configuration. Put a little extra work into it, and this number can exceed 4,500!

 

4500 dpm, -10mm gun depression, 355mm UFP armor, 390m base view range??

are you insane? how?? really WG??

 

I am a noob, please tell me this numbers are not something to worry about..

plox!



CircleOfSorrow #2 Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:21 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 28819 battles
  • 1,986
  • Member since:
    12-26-2012
Circon's performance using the vehicle on the test server was good, but not crazy amazing.  It seems to have the same issues as other turretless tds, and I'm sure it will get tracked and raped plenty.  I do like that it seems to be quite mobile and the frontal armour is worth a damn, and I think it will be a competitive vehicle and a just reward for having to grind through all the frustration that is the British AT line.

HugSeal #3 Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:26 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 22717 battles
  • 2,010
  • [SWEC] SWEC
  • Member since:
    05-10-2012

The Tortoise already has 3500 dpm stock. The badgers armour will be better though. But dpm isn't what matter at the moment. Awesome dpm on an inflexible TD or 750 alpha on an inflexible TD, I know what I prefer.

 

and if they face off then good luck getting to use that incredible dpm when the opponent will only peek when they are loaded and they have double your alpha.


Edited by HugSeal, 07 December 2017 - 09:27 AM.


Moppedhupe #4 Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:30 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 30207 battles
  • 1,715
  • [DUCKZ] DUCKZ
  • Member since:
    03-20-2013

View PostExcavatus, on 07 December 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

 

4500 dpm, -10mm gun depression, 355mm UFP armor, 390m base view range??

are you insane? how?? really WG??

 

 

Afair the Badger is going to have 4.15k dpm with a good crew and equipment. It'll only go up to 4.5k with adrenalin rush. And then you're dead :D



250swb #5 Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:32 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 21699 battles
  • 4,862
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-23-2015
On the Test Server I pimped the Badger out to give it 4666 dpm, and I think it could go a bit higher still. But all said and done the gun is great, the frontal armour is great, but it is still another slow TD that has trouble locating to the trouble spots so it gets stuck as a long distance sniper especially on Grand Battle maps. I'm waiting for mine to arrive in the next patch having ground and free XP'd the FV215, but I'm not expecting it to supplant other tier X TD's.

Dava_117 #6 Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:33 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 18538 battles
  • 2,739
  • [B-BAS] B-BAS
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014
Yes, looks op. Hope it as some major flaws, but looks like the monkey on balace department drunk too much vodka with this. The complete absence of weackspot,  the absurd dpm and the insane view range are a really bad combo, that will increase the static behaviour that already too much players have. If they want to keep the armour layout, they should nerf cammo and accuracy, to force it in the assault gun role.

LeGod7 #7 Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:37 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 847 battles
  • 162
  • Member since:
    12-24-2014

Personally I am very surprised they did not nerf it on the second test, it's a bit too much IMO, main issue is the armour layout + that DPM + -10 gun depression.

 

It is also not like the LFP is that weak, it is not a Super Conqueror LFP that most tier 8s can pen with standard ammo, it's IS7/E100 levels in the middle and then like 270 effective at the sides. 

 

Puts the armour layout similar to an E3, but you have best in game DPM, plus it's a bit faster, so I thought they would tone down the DPM and mobility after the first test.

 

The DPM on it's own is not an issue, look at the Tortoise, that is poor even though it has amazing DPM, DPM is only useful if you can use it. But the Badger has no frontal weakspot aside that troll LFP so in a hull down position it can basically just sit there and spam 480 alpha hits every 6.6s, if you pimp it out with improved equipment I think the DPM can hit 4800.

 

We'll see when it hits live but you'd imagine the armour would only be stronger compared to the test server premium spam.

 

Really they needed to give it a small cupola weakspot IMO, like E75 size and then it would be ok, but I can't see them changing the armour layout now so I reckon it'll eventually get nerfed, probably DPM, gun handling and mobility. 



arthurwellsley #8 Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:39 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 51268 battles
  • 2,814
  • [-B-C-] -B-C-
  • Member since:
    05-11-2011

I played it on supertest. I had the crew out of my Tortoise transfered and re-trained for the Badger. I did not use food and my 290% perk crew got just over 4k dpm in it. However if you have ever played the Tortoise you will realise that having the highest potential dpm tank in tier, and actually getting to use it are two completely different things. On supertest all players fire premium ammunition for every shell (because with 100 million credits why not) so its not a perfect enviroment for a player to reach firm conclusions however I would say;

 

Badger

(a) more consistent with AT line than FV

(b) a better armoured Tortoise, the armour being slightly more reliable (but still not E3 level)

(c.) slow

(d) Tortoise style play = track enemy, damage shot, re-track, damage shot - repeat. Has become a less consistent producer of dpm due to re usuable repair kits.

(e) did I mention it was slow? Also it has no turret.



HugSeal #9 Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:40 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 22717 battles
  • 2,010
  • [SWEC] SWEC
  • Member since:
    05-10-2012

View PostDava_117, on 07 December 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

Yes, looks op. Hope it as some major flaws, but looks like the monkey on balace department drunk too much vodka with this. The complete absence of weackspot,  the absurd dpm and the insane view range are a really bad combo, that will increase the static behaviour that already too much players have. If they want to keep the armour layout, they should nerf cammo and accuracy, to force it in the assault gun role.

 

Yeah, that view range is certainly absurd. 390 whole meters! There are only 8 current tier 10 TDs with that kind of viewrange and 13 other TDs overall with that kind of viewrange (2 with 400 aswell)



Dava_117 #10 Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:45 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 18538 battles
  • 2,739
  • [B-BAS] B-BAS
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014

View PostHugSeal, on 07 December 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

 

Yeah, that view range is certainly absurd. 390 whole meters! There are only 8 current tier 10 TDs with that kind of viewrange and 13 other TDs overall with that kind of viewrange (2 with 400 aswell)

 

And that's why people camp. And LT became useless. A TD with this armour, firepower and cammo can simply sit in a bush and take out the entire enemy offensive. A tier X td should still blind as bats, but I can cope with this if at least they force it in the assault gun role nerfing cammo and accuracy.



HugSeal #11 Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:54 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 22717 battles
  • 2,010
  • [SWEC] SWEC
  • Member since:
    05-10-2012

View PostDava_117, on 07 December 2017 - 09:45 AM, said:

 

And that's why people camp. And LT became useless. A TD with this armour, firepower and cammo can simply sit in a bush and take out the entire enemy offensive. A tier X td should still blind as bats, but I can cope with this if at least they force it in the assault gun role nerfing cammo and accuracy.

 

No, tier x tds shouldn't be blind as bats. That would be horrilble and thinking it would force people into an assault role is jsut deluding yourself. It would just make people cmp even further back. They won't spot anything anyways so they might jsut as well sit back and let their team spot.

 

What are the camo values of the bager then? They aren't listed where I usually get my stats so fill me in please. 



LeGod7 #12 Posted 07 December 2017 - 09:55 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 847 battles
  • 162
  • Member since:
    12-24-2014

View PostDava_117, on 07 December 2017 - 09:45 AM, said:

 

And that's why people camp. And LT became useless. A TD with this armour, firepower and cammo can simply sit in a bush and take out the entire enemy offensive. A tier X td should still blind as bats, but I can cope with this if at least they force it in the assault gun role nerfing cammo and accuracy.

 

Thing is, nerfing the view range heavily of TDs then impacts on more aggressive players who play their tanks front line. Whereas the campers you are trying to impact will still be fine. 

 

I think really they need to something about TDs using binos and camo net, because these boost campers camo and view range too much, with the Swedish TDs being the ultimate example of this.  

 

An Strv 103B with camo net, binos and all the skills has 63% base camo, 508m view range and still has nearly 14% camo after firing making it near impossible for lights to spot these things. Not to mention the fact that most mediums and lights cannot pen them frontally either, even if they do find them. 

 

The other issue of course is something like a Badger or E3 should never be camped with, so really they need to take away the camo from these tanks and make them on par with heavy tanks. I don't know what the Badger's camo is, but the E3 even though it is on of the best armoured tanks in the game still has 10% base camo. It should have basically the same camo as an E5 (as they are variants of the same tank).

 

TD class rules need looking at, really TDs should be split into support (<- get camo) and assault (<- don't have camo) cos you get silly things where the T30 has twice the camo of a T34, even though it's the same tank with a bigger gun and it only has that camo because it is classed as a TD. 

 

Getting off-topic though, but the Badger will sadly be camped with and it's going to be a pain with that armour layout. 

 

I mean it's slow, but it'll still get around faster than say an E100. 

 

 



Dava_117 #13 Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:11 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 18538 battles
  • 2,739
  • [B-BAS] B-BAS
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014

View PostLeGod7, on 07 December 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

 

Thing is, nerfing the view range heavily of TDs then impacts on more aggressive players who play their tanks front line. Whereas the campers you are trying to impact will still be fine. 

 

I think really they need to something about TDs using binos and camo net, because these boost campers camo and view range too much, with the Swedish TDs being the ultimate example of this.  

 

An Strv 103B with camo net, binos and all the skills has 63% base camo, 508m view range and still has nearly 14% camo after firing making it near impossible for lights to spot these things. Not to mention the fact that most mediums and lights cannot pen them frontally either, even if they do find them. 

 

The other issue of course is something like a Badger or E3 should never be camped with, so really they need to take away the camo from these tanks and make them on par with heavy tanks. I don't know what the Badger's camo is, but the E3 even though it is on of the best armoured tanks in the game still has 10% base camo. It should have basically the same camo as an E5 (as they are variants of the same tank).

 

TD class rules need looking at, really TDs should be split into support (<- get camo) and assault (<- don't have camo) cos you get silly things where the T30 has twice the camo of a T34, even though it's the same tank with a bigger gun and it only has that camo because it is classed as a TD. 

 

Getting off-topic though, but the Badger will sadly be camped with and it's going to be a pain with that armour layout. 

 

I mean it's slow, but it'll still get around faster than say an E100. 

 

 

 

Exactly this. TDs should be divided in assault gun and support TD. But you can also work on viewrange too. Assault TD can keep their VR, but support TDs should get it nerfed, so they have to actively relocate to been hable to shot spotted target. And it would also reduce the wn8 padding camping, because once you're alone you can't outspot anything.

 

View PostHugSeal, on 07 December 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

 

No, tier x tds shouldn't be blind as bats. That would be horrilble and thinking it would force people into an assault role is jsut deluding yourself. It would just make people cmp even further back. They won't spot anything anyways so they might jsut as well sit back and let their team spot.

 

What are the camo values of the bager then? They aren't listed where I usually get my stats so fill me in please. 

 

Don't have any number, but WG said badger is good also as a second line sniper, so almost certanly it won't have an HT cammo value.

TankkiPoju #14 Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:45 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 20014 battles
  • 6,192
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011
That slow turretless TD will never be OP, no matter how much DPM you give it.

LeGod7 #15 Posted 07 December 2017 - 11:16 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 847 battles
  • 162
  • Member since:
    12-24-2014

View PostTankkiPoju, on 07 December 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

That slow turretless TD will never be OP, no matter how much DPM you give it.

 

It has 14 hp/ton with a 30 kph top speed, it's not the old T95. 

 

It's faster than a Maus, Type 5, E100, JpE100, T110E3, and arguably will get places at similar rate to a T110E4 and a Pz VII. 



magkiln #16 Posted 07 December 2017 - 11:31 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 22607 battles
  • 731
  • [EKKE] EKKE
  • Member since:
    09-21-2015

The armour number is always deceptive. It's not all across the front.

DPM sounds scary, but to take full advantage of it teh Badger would have to sit still in front of the enemy while firing repeatedly, which is suicide.

The viewrange is decent, but not that special at tier 10.

 

In the end, it's a good turretless TD, but it still has all the problems that any turretless TD has.



LeGod7 #17 Posted 07 December 2017 - 11:37 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 847 battles
  • 162
  • Member since:
    12-24-2014

View Postmagkiln, on 07 December 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

The armour number is always deceptive. It's not all across the front.

 

 

Badger on flat ground, if you can't see the LFP then it's armour is 310 effective plus all over.

 

If it's using all it's gun depression then the lowest effective armour you will get is 360mm 

 

Posted Image

 

That is a Badger, hull down with it's gun depression against Obj. 140 HEAT rounds with 330mm of pen, it still looks pretty solid against JpE100 420mm HEAT -

 

Posted Image

 

 

 

 


Edited by LeGod7, 07 December 2017 - 11:40 AM.


Dava_117 #18 Posted 07 December 2017 - 11:40 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 18538 battles
  • 2,739
  • [B-BAS] B-BAS
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014

View Postmagkiln, on 07 December 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

The armour number is always deceptive. It's not all across the front.

DPM sounds scary, but to take full advantage of it teh Badger would have to sit still in front of the enemy while firing repeatedly, which is suicide.

The viewrange is decent, but not that special at tier 10.

 

In the end, it's a good turretless TD, but it still has all the problems that any turretless TD has.

 

Have you seen the armou model? It's 280+ effective on all front, with just the central part of LFP that is 245-260mm effective (whoa, such a weackspot! :facepalm:). If it can hide LFP, it can sit still and bounce even gold, while using it's full firepower.

STLR #19 Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:33 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 30417 battles
  • 730
  • [MIND] MIND
  • Member since:
    06-07-2013
Looking froward to getting mine :D 

magkiln #20 Posted 07 December 2017 - 12:48 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 22607 battles
  • 731
  • [EKKE] EKKE
  • Member since:
    09-21-2015

View PostDava_117, on 07 December 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

 

Have you seen the armou model? It's 280+ effective on all front, with just the central part of LFP that is 245-260mm effective (whoa, such a weackspot! :facepalm:). If it can hide LFP, it can sit still and bounce even gold, while using it's full firepower.

 

Shoot HE directly above those two frontal miniturrets. The top of those turrets has only about 65 mm armour, so the splash will wreck it.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users