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Lakeville unblanced

unbalanced map fix needed

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jorpe1245 #1 Posted 09 December 2017 - 01:03 PM

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In the lakeville map there is many places where only other team has chance to go and in lakeville southern team has good spots for camping in the left side by arty or td and northern has better scouting and arty spots tho middle part pretty balanced but not quite good for me, but my experience isn't probably enough to say is it balanced or not. But i have been in the game from 2012.map-lakeville.jpg

_underscored_ #2 Posted 09 December 2017 - 03:13 PM

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I always thought it was pretty balanced for randoms at least. If I had to choose Id say north advantage due to initial spot positions, but since 95% players cant play vision/long range anyway it doesnt matter so much in an average battle.

Bennie182 #3 Posted 09 December 2017 - 06:52 PM

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there are several maps like this, where one team has better positions to spot or hold. I doubt wg will do much about it.

AvengerOrion #4 Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:03 PM

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North side having a far better and relatively safe view on the churche square from D4-E4 than south side has from any point, is a big imbalance you overlooked here.

Especially on encounter mode it gives a noticable advantage.



Bennie182 #5 Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:11 PM

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Only in (unranked) team battles it's balanced I think

bitslice #6 Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:12 PM

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Balance isn't the issue with Lakeville, it's the fact that 2 of it's 3 corridors can't be flanked,

and that either side of the town is an irritating ball ache of random buildings and almost full cover from everything.

 

Interestingly on one game I stuck my arty to cover the lake road, removing all their scouts from those positions was a big advantage.

...try it.

 

Now that arty only stuns, hitting anything on the valley beyond the ridge line is utterly pointless, because nobody can see it to kill it. So they'll sit there stunned, wait for a bit, and then carry on like nothing has happened (minus 31/2HP of damage)

I don't think arty players are up to speed on these changes yet, because they all go valley on autopilot, they have almost zero effect and then they die.

 

 

worth repeating I think - there is no point in stunning a tank if your team can't see it to kill it.

 

 

 

 


Edited by bitslice, 09 December 2017 - 07:15 PM.


Headless_Rooster #7 Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:19 PM

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The circle is 564M (maximum Render Range) from the TD position, drive your HT to town outside that and you won't get wrecked when the enemy LT braves the agressive spotting position in the middle, the meds/lights should have reached the J7 ridge by then to wreck the LT

 



Balc0ra #8 Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:25 PM

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The only thing broken about that map is valley. When you play south, you ignore valley, hug the red line so you lose the least amount of HP to their TD's if spotted, win town so their TD's can't help. And go back and rape the valley lemmings from K8 on one tank's spotting when they cap. As then their arty can't help. I even go K9 as arty when I start south.

Edited by Balc0ra, 09 December 2017 - 07:25 PM.


Aikl #9 Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:33 PM

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The issue is that Lakeville is a crappy map design that mostly rewards camping. Camp the base and deny approach from the city. Camp the field/redline and deny the enemy a base cap. Camp the middle of the valley and have a simple, easy farm (on a flank that ultimately results in nothing). Try to scout - either you wreck the enemy team into oblivion or you spot nothing and die from a redline-sniping TD (can't blame them) that shoots the most obvious bush, alternatively get nuked by a TD trying to hit people behind you.

 

The map would be far better if attacking was rewarded.

Valley is fine as a noob-corridor with 'slow' terrain. Flatten it out, widen the middle and add some rocks here and there to 'loosen up' the gameplay. 'Soft'/slow terrain is useful for denying slow tanks plowing straight into the base (and reward flanking e.g. superheavies).

Mid could be multiple intertwined paths that are less open to the city. Keep some sniping/scouting positions that don't cover half the dang map. Spotting should require something more than just rushing to a goddarn bush. Either end can be kept semi-open to make it defensible. Remains a viable attack path if you can gain control over other areas of the map, but useless on its own.

Open areas between the base and city needs major fixing. Attacking is hard, unless you control just about the rest of the map.

 

Behold my lackluster MS Paint-skills:

 

 

(Don't worry, you can still sit just about anywhere and snipe - just don't expect that sitting somewhere would be both safe and rewarding.)

(There's probably some reason why maps with similar terrain got outphased.)


Edited by Aikl, 09 December 2017 - 07:36 PM.


KillswitchEngaged #10 Posted 09 December 2017 - 09:31 PM

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Most maps like this one aren't unbalanced , it's players who are unbalanced because they don't play the map !

Enforcer1975 #11 Posted 10 December 2017 - 02:34 AM

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The only part making that map unbalanced is "idiot valley"

Tidal_Force #12 Posted 10 December 2017 - 03:24 AM

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I never considered this map to be unbalanced per se. Sides simply have different advantages, which I always felt balance each other out.

 

Combined strength of players going to valley was always much more important to the outcome than any inherent map imbalance: the less strength committed to valley, the higher chance to win.



Phobos4321 #13 Posted 10 December 2017 - 05:54 AM

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is there a point in complaining about maps right now ?

problem might be solved with HD maps anyway and if not : 

1) they wont change it anyway  because they have HD maps to do

2) they wont read this thread

3) as long as you dont mirrow the maps there should be always advantages and disadvantages for a certain side  the main point would be to put them in balance



yun9 #14 Posted 10 December 2017 - 06:05 AM

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I've never found the map unbalanced in the sense that one side is significantly better than the other one, but the north sides hold all the cards in the middle, so they hold the crossfire into the city which is a balancing problem because a team pushing the city from south will always be at a disadvantage because of it and ultimately end up getting farmed from the middle because it's hard to contest from the south.

 

However the south spawn has a much better camp that is much harder to break. At the very redline on K2 you have a completely covered spot to deny the cap completely, and with any TDs in the base the valley push might happen but it's never going to yield anything if you have that crossfire. K7 and J9 are both huge chokepoints that's easy to pile up tanks on, especially with the houses on K9 which can pretty much lock a push that would win on even ground on it's own. I have never been shot by the middle crossing in any tank on Lakeville into the city since years back. If you hug the redline the LT will have to go really far, and get spotted if you have a tank in any of the bushes around the lake to counter spot it, but from the rock and from the bush the TDs are not only out of renderrange, but the light is out of spottting range. This map got worse with the vision mechanic changes (render into a circle instead of a square) since it increased the render straight ahead by a few meters, making a much bigger difference than on any other map due to the amount of space between LT spotting range and TD ridge render being a smaller factor than before



JakeRoook #15 Posted 10 December 2017 - 08:28 AM

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You can hillclimb from north so it is balanced only in that way

Keyhand #16 Posted 10 December 2017 - 08:36 AM

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View PostJakeRoook, on 10 December 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

You can hillclimb from north so it is balanced only in that way

 

there are quite a few climbs on lakeville, none of which are of realistical use in randoms.

General_McMuschi #17 Posted 10 December 2017 - 08:46 AM

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I still like this map. It doesn't make me sick like Live Oaks for example. Still, the most broken map is probably Sand river assault. To win attacking on this map, you need good team and good push and a lot of team work. And even if you have all that, 10 minutes still doesn't feel like enough time and often a single tank will survive or escape and hide from the enemy team and win the battle for the defending team. All that defending team on Sand River has to do is to put a strong hull down tank on ~H0, a well armored heavy with a lot of HP on ~ F/G1, few tanks in the middle and few snipers in the back and game is easily won. Erlenberg Assault is pretty bad as well, but not as bad as this. To win on such map, you need team that's willing not to camp but to attack instead - I don't see such teams very often, seems everyone likes to camp even on assault.

Edited by General_McMuschi, 10 December 2017 - 08:48 AM.


Xqual #18 Posted 10 December 2017 - 09:47 AM

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Only real unbalanced map is mines. 

North has all the advanteges.






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