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Update 9.21 Feedback - New French Heavy Tanks

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Kandly #1 Posted 11 December 2017 - 04:51 PM

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Commanders,

 

Please share your feedback regarding Update 9.21's new French Heavies in this topic.

 

Cheers,

Kandly



markthekiller #2 Posted 12 December 2017 - 07:00 PM

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Is the 325mm pen on the t8's premium rounds already fixed?

Edited by markthekiller, 12 December 2017 - 07:00 PM.


SlyMeerkat #3 Posted 13 December 2017 - 12:54 AM

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Interesting new line to grind :)

Temid23 #4 Posted 13 December 2017 - 12:01 PM

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Tier 8 is Tiger 2 level of bad. Only the 120mm gun is okeish but for sure not worth all of the drawbacks of the platform.

Armor is bad, mobility is bad. It would be nice tanks 2-3 years ago but right now its just bad compared to defenders, tier 8 German vk's and shite like that. Current broken tier 8 mm also doesn't help this tank.

 

Seems like WG tuned this tank to push players in to skipping it with free xp (same like tier 8 China td... from last "new line" introduced)



Kooallu #5 Posted 13 December 2017 - 12:25 PM

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amx 65 t top turret is one big joke, super easy to penetrate with +210 pen (no need to hit cupolas), im using stock turret and 100mm gun in my amx because better turret armor+less weakspots and easier play

roofer #6 Posted 13 December 2017 - 02:08 PM

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Tier 8 is sluggish and has bad manouverability, paper armour and the top gun is inaccurate and doesn't penetrate. This is not going to be a popular tank.

leggasiini #7 Posted 13 December 2017 - 09:09 PM

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AMX 65t is most useless tier 8 vehicle in the game.

 

You dont simply make a huge tank with trash armor, poor mobility AND either a gun with terrible gun handling + lowish alpha damage or gun that has crap penetration combined together. 

 

Its literally nothing but an useless free XP hole.



Baleent7 #8 Posted 14 December 2017 - 06:07 PM

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I don't usually cry about tanks being underpowered in the forum, but the AMX 65t is quite a case we have here.

This tank is so bad. Some people have already explained the problem before my post, but let me confirm those accusations. This tank is super bad.

- No armor (you might have lucky bounces from both the hull and turret, but anything more than 200mm penetrates it with ease)

- No mobility (1100 horsepower engine providing something like 17 hp/tons, but it's crippled by the awful terrain resistances - such convenient multipliers for WG to play with...)

- Very bad gun handling, regardless of which one you use (I personally can't decide which one is the best, because they are equally bad. On paper the 90mm has 2,3 seconds aiming time, but in the game it felt more like 4 seconds, and that of course is because the gun handling soft stats. As soon as you move your turret or your tank, or traverse or rotate, or whatever you do, the aim circle jumps out of the map. I think the best might be the 120mm but only because of it's damage is more suited for a t8 heavy tank, on the other hand it does not worth grinding 46k XP, I would rather keep it for the Mle51 and sell this abomination as soon as possible)

All the above mentioned things combined with a huge silhouette results in the worst tier8 heavy tank ever made. WG must seriously do something with this one, it's just unbearable.

 

Cheers



Temid23 #9 Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:15 AM

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After few more games in top configuration i can confirm: we have a new king WORST tier 8 heavy tank :great:

Whoever decided to approve this tank in that shape is also new king guess of what WG....



SnipeExpert #10 Posted 15 December 2017 - 01:16 AM

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Why do the new French heavies have such crapview range when they have such a huge commanders hatch and models ?

 



mightyMerV #11 Posted 16 December 2017 - 06:12 PM

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Hello everyone! Concerning the tier 10 new French heavy tank, the AMX M4 54, I wrote a review whilst public testing it. Now, where it has been relased to the live servers, I see its downsides clearly confirmed. That's why I repost my review here again to help (hopefully) balancing this interesting new tank!

December 1st, 2017:

AMX M4 54 (Tier 10)

I understand which niche WG wants to fill with this tank line, but still there are MASSIVE weaknesses to solve/buff, because right now, the M4 54 feels more like a tier 9,5.

Of course, it's nice to have the choice between two (on paper) competitive guns, but both of them are balanced badly compared to the existing tier 10's. The 120mm needs a 15% dpm-buff to at least 2500 dpm stock, and still then, the M4 54 is just a worse Super Conqueror, due to its lack of turret (especially mantlet) armor, the absence of side armor, the giant turret size and its awful hull cheeks. Yes, there is its plus on mobility, but still 40 km/h isn't that strong compared to the downsides the 54 has in comparison with the Super Conq. And then there's also the really small HP pool of just 2200. Without reliable armor, this is just way too less HP!

So, for me, there's only one weapon of choice, and that's the 130mm, which makes this tank kinda unique due to its 560 alpha damage.

BUT: 280mm gold-AP-pen is just ... bad. Ok, 10 degrees of normalization is the strength of any AP, but again, this is a bad trade: you loose shell velocity, which makes it way harder to snipe, especially on moving targets. The low pen makes it impossible facing Mauses or hulldown tanks with well armored upper hulls/turrets. And the third point, which makes the whole tank even more unbalanced in a negative way: the poor 8 degrees of gun depression. No, you can't work the ridge lines properly like a Super Conq, because you have to expose way more of your more fragile hull and turret, PLUS: you have to aim your shots carefully due to its low penetration values, so snapshotting (like many other ridge line tanks) isn't possible and aiming will highly increase the risk of recieving damage (due to its poor 8 degrees of depression and the non-reliable armor).

All in all: an interesting tank line, but with many balancing lacks, which should be solved before it hits the game. And yes, the changes it needs are kinda small, but will have a great impact on the performance of the M4 54. And even when it gets its urgently needed buff, this tank will just shine in the hands of experienced players. All others should stick to the Super Conq or the Pz.K. VII, depending which gun style you prefer.

I honestly hope, WG reads all of our feedback (since we're stating all the same) and buffs this interesting tank line to a fair balance!

 

Proposal for needed buffs:

  •  HP increase to at least the level of an IS7 (2400)
  • Stronger gun mantlet armor (maybe 50 mm?) behind the spaced armor to reduce pen shots in the gun mantlet to at least 15%
  • Stronger hull cheeks with at least 200 mm since this tank has enough frontal weakspots (LFP, two (!) cuppolas, flat turret armor below the gun)
  • 120 mm gun: at least 15% dpm buff to at least 2500 stock dpm to be (in a way) competitive with other ridge line fighters like the Super Conq or the E5
  • 130mm gun: premium-AP-shell penetration buff to at least 295 mm, possibly even 10mm more to reliably fight super heavies PLUS: higher shell velocity on both normal and premium AP (close to guns like the PZKVII's with its 1100 m/s on AP)
  • decreased terrain resistances by at least 10% (now: the highest (!) value in comparison with PzKVII, SuperConq and E5!) plus: additionally 3-5 km/h more top speed
  • increased gun depression to 10 degrees (absolutely needed!)
  • eventually 10% increase of turret traverse speed to avoid getting shot in the huge sides of the turret

 

If these buffs take place, the M4 54 would fit (in my opinion) the following role including strengths and weaknesses:

  • fairly mobile support/flanking tank, able to work ridge lines, even if he lacks still on armor compared to others, especially concerning the non-existing side and rear armor, which is HE-penetrable
  • reliable guns in respects of handling, penetration and dpm
  • mostly reliable frontal armor (but not vs. tier 10-TD's premium shells)
  • big arty target (turret roof and hull deck is penetrable)
  • still poor view range and bad camo value
  • strong vs mediums, ok vs heavies and TDs
  • unique due to its 130mm gun and its alpha damage

 

 


Edited by mightyMerV, 16 December 2017 - 06:18 PM.


leggasiini #12 Posted 18 December 2017 - 12:40 PM

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View PostmightyMerV, on 16 December 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

Proposal for needed buffs:
  •  HP increase to at least the level of an IS7 (2400) I actually agree with this one, the tier 9 has above average HP but this has pretty low HP. Its gigantic and having low HP is kinda weird. IMO the best way to buff it if it needs one.
  • Stronger gun mantlet armor (maybe 50 mm?) behind the spaced armor to reduce pen shots in the gun mantlet to at least 15% It right now has 0mm armor behind mantlet. Even having 1 mm behind it would make it way bouncier.  But yea, just something so that the mantlet wouldnt get penetrated by pretty dumb shots that shouldnt penetrate.
  • Stronger hull cheeks with at least 200 mm since this tank has enough frontal weakspots (LFP, two (!) cuppolas, flat turret armor below the gun) Wouldnt make a big difference because the tank is awful at sidescraping and angling, anyway. Rather buff the upper part of the LFP (the less sloped but 240 mm thick area) so that the actual LFP is a smaller area to shoot at, and so that it could angle its front from corners better.
  • 120 mm gun: at least 15% dpm buff to at least 2500 stock dpm to be (in a way) competitive with other ridge line fighters like the Super Conq or the E5 2.2k is too low indeed; ~2.4k would be quite fair, however any more than that is overkill IMO
  • 130mm gun: premium-AP-shell penetration buff to at least 295 mm, possibly even 10mm more to reliably fight super heavies PLUS: higher shell velocity on both normal and premium AP (close to guns like the PZKVII's with its 1100 m/s on AP) Premium pen yes, shell velocity no.  295 is enough for AP, I wouldnt make it higher. IS-7 has 303 APCR and many other APCR prem ammo guns have 310 - 320 pen, so AP pen should be around 290-300. The velocity buff is completely unnecessary - the gun is accurate enough and handles OK for that alpha; why would it need higher velocity? Its not meant to camp in base and snipe with that gun, you use the 120 mm if you want to have very accurate gun!
  • decreased terrain resistances by at least 10% (now: the highest (!) value in comparison with PzKVII, SuperConq and E5!) plus: additionally 3-5 km/h more top speed More mobility is likely overkill and unnecessary, IMO, I would just buff HP, tweak the armor and guns a bit before touching the mobility.
  • increased gun depression to 10 degrees (absolutely needed!) Dont think its "absolutely" needed, but maybe. Still, would buff the HP, guns and tweak armor a bit first
  • eventually 10% increase of turret traverse speed to avoid getting shot in the huge sides of the turret Nah, turret actually traverses pretty fast already.

 

I don't have it yet, but considering the opinions from others who have played it and also considering the fact that how a small upgrade it is VS the tier 9, yeah, I would say it kinda needs a buff. I feel like your suggestions are quite a bit too overkill, because it would make it a Super Conqueror that is much faster with better front armor but worse sidescraping capabilities, and the Super Conqueror is already kinda pushing it and probably should be nerfed slightly.

 

Will post my opinions later on when I get the tank ^^


Edited by leggasiini, 18 December 2017 - 12:45 PM.


albee9 #13 Posted 18 December 2017 - 09:25 PM

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I was waiting for this new line, before the upgrade I played the tier 7, after the patch, I find these tanks frustrating, how is it possible the tier 8 is worse than the Heavy premium, it does not make any sense.

And then, you just hope the tier 10 is a good tank so it makes sense to play the tier 8. But reading the above comments, I just going to pass on this line, like I did with the Chinese ATs.

Thanks WG, I may enjoy this xmas.


Edited by albee9, 18 December 2017 - 09:34 PM.


leggasiini #14 Posted 18 December 2017 - 09:28 PM

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View Postalbee9, on 18 December 2017 - 10:25 PM, said:

I was waiting for this new line, before the upgrade I played the tier 7, after the patch, I find these tanks frustrating, how is it possible the tier 8 is worse than the Heavy premium, it does not make any sense.

And then, you just hope the tier 10 is a good tank so it makes sense to play the tier 8. But I reading the above comments, I just going to pass on this line, like I did with the Chinese ATs.

Thanks WG, I may enjoy this xmas.

 

Get the tier 9. Its very, very good.

rancidpunk #15 Posted 19 December 2017 - 11:34 AM

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I'm enjoying the AMX 65T now I've figured out the config!

Not sure what WG were trying to do here though, I'm using the stock turret and the 100mm gun for many reasons;

better accuracy (0.32 vs 0.34) ,
better dpm (2177 vs 2060),
better gun depression (-10 vs -8),
better power/weight ratio (17.45 vs 16.77),
better penetration (232 vs 218)

Seems like I'll be doing the whole grind to T9 like this as each "upgrade" makes the tank worse instead of better and although the top gun gives 100 more damage per shot I can easily make up for that by firing more shots

0b3rst #16 Posted 20 December 2017 - 09:45 PM

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There is a model error for AMX 65t (the only I checked at the moment as I play it) - the roadwheels comes through tracks. Visible especially when you drive around but you can see it in the garage as well.

You should fix it.



Killer_123_123 #17 Posted 21 December 2017 - 01:01 PM

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Tragic line except tier 9

 



leggasiini #18 Posted 05 January 2018 - 01:21 PM

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AMX 65t needs something, like anything, its utter disaster.

 

AMX M4 51 is fine. Might be a bit too good, even.

 

AMX M4 54 (tier 10) needs:

 

  • HP buff 2200 -> 2400 or even 2500. The HP is the biggest issue with this tank - such a gigantic tank that is not a glass cannon like AMX 50 B for example needs health, and 2200 is horribly low. This alone would be very helpful.
  • 120 mm DPM buff 2202 -> ~2450. 2200 base DPM is utterly terrible for tank with 400 alpha.
  • 130 mm penetration buff 250 / 280 -> 250 / 295. 280 mm gold AP is horrible compared to pretty much any non-light tank premium round (except Type 5 Heavy's 14 cm gun but no one uses that anyway) at tier 10.

 

I would think about some buffs at armor as well but I feel like that having yet another LOLOLOL armor tank is stupid. Rather focus on HP pool and firepower instead.

 


Edited by leggasiini, 05 January 2018 - 09:39 PM.


anonym_RHITWPAatrxF #19 Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:28 AM

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AMX 65t is obvious craptank meant as free xp sink. It has nothing going for it. The gun is far more inaccurate than the in-game [edited]paper stats, the armor is useless unless you meet some poor boy in a stock tier 6 or tier 7, the mobility is crap, it looks ugly. Well it probably just is what the let's-suck-the-life-blood-out-of-the-player-base money mongers intended it to be.


 

Stop adding tanks to WoT. Try balancing the existing ones.







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