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CAN BOTS SAVE THE GAME?

bots matchmaking newcomers top tier maps

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Poll: Bots in the game (47 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Would you like to test bots more on sandbox?

  1. I do not believe bots can solve anything (24 votes [51.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 51.06%

  2. I dont have opinion on using bots in the game, and i dont want to want them in the game (2 votes [4.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.26%

  3. I dont have opinion on using bots in the game, lets test in on sandbox (8 votes [17.02%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.02%

  4. I am believer, lets test them on everywhere and introduce in the game (13 votes [27.66%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.66%

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Arne_CZ #1 Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:05 AM

    Warrant Officer

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Yesterday (12. 12. 2017) i saw stream Q&A with developers of WoT (it was in my native language, apology for english speaking readers) and answers on many questions were in style “you don’t really want that, because it would broke the game”.  I have to say that one of anwered questions was mine - what are future plans for using bots (vehicles controlled not by player, but AI) in WoT. Answer was very shallow and unimaginative.

Because i believe bots can solve majority of todays WoT problems.

 

What means term “bot” for me in WoT enviroment - it is vehicle controlled with artificial intelligence (AI), clearly marked for team players (not for enemy!), generally not so efficient as below-average player (should be tuned during testing).

Lets imagine that each random game will have certain number (5) of bots in both teams, always a low tier. What could be game impact?

 

1) Matchmaking - there it is obvious - if there will be constant number of low tier bots, player controlled vehicles will be more often top tiers.  Skilled players will still have possibility to be underdog, only not so often as before. It can solve problems with currently “tough” tiers to play (6 and 8). I can even imagine rules as “never lowtier with stock gun” improving vehicle grinding, etc. It is not unfair if it will be rule for everyone.

 

2) Preferencial MM vehicles - bots can help here also - these vehicles can be most of the time top tiers thanks to them.

 

3) New players - thanks to bot system can new players until (lets say) 4th tier be always top tier. It can greatly improve their start to new game.

 

4) Artillery - imagine checkbox “play without arty in team” came true thanks to bot system. Arty would have different rules from other types of vehicles. If it will be possible, it will go to “normal” battle - otherwise it will enter game where will be majority of teams bots, only arty will be player controlled. I can even imagine some “premade” platoons in this mode, where arty players will give simple orders to bots, where to go and how to behave. Too futuristic? Read further!

 

5) “Premium” ammunition - simple rule “bot can use only non-premium ammo” will make difference in personal feeling of “living” players, i believe. Armor will have importance again, especially on flank full of bots ;-)

 

6) Grand battles - i can imagine much more bots in this mode, lets say one half of each team. I believe it would improve feeeling of grand scale battle and also increase possibility of heroic achievments here (but particularly this is true for ALL game mods in which will be bots present) .

 

7) Favorite maps - imagine checkboxes for all maps and certain number of them you can disable. You will not see these maps ever again until you decide it as player. How does it feel, great? Developers think that it would lead to city maps full of heavies and open maps full of lights AND it would break matchmaking. NOT with good bot system, my friends.

 

8) XVM - Last but not least, currently my bot system vision collides with XVM color markers in battle (since enemy players should not recognize bot at first sight) - i suggest to enable WN8 colors in garage only. It would end “xvm focus” discussions for good (not judging if it is myth or not) and significantly reduce “bad temper” at beginning of the battle.

 

I could continue (9 - historical battles, 10 - strongholds…;) but i believe my point is clear enough now and i don’t have to.

 

Summary - what can properly scripted bots bring to the game (i bet you will be surprised at some points):

Variety - sound weird right, but bots can take role of classes or concrete vehicles, which are otherwise rare in the game, they can add unique flavor to some maps. They act differently then players, so they will increase possibilities inside game (see points below)

Education - bots can do right things and go to right places, only their performance will be worse - players can learn from them basic behavior patterns, cool map places and do it better. That is strong educational aspect.

Tactics - after some time people will learn, that bots behave always same in certain situtations / places. This can (weirdly enough) support team play and using bots as tactical game units. After all, when you know bots behavior, you can count with and rely on it sometimes more then if it would be “living” player. I can imagine it will even change meta on some maps / situations - for better / worse (worse should be fixed during testing).

Balance - this whole topic is about better game balance achieved by using bots in matchmaking system, so i think i don’t need to write more here.

Better game expirience - friendly matchmaking for everyone, exclusive matchmaking for newcomers, possibility to play without arty, possibility to choose favorite maps (or at least exclude most hated ones)? It sounds for me like much better and attractive game then before. Less frustration, more fun, what do you think?

 

As you can see, in my opinion developing of proper AI system can solve many urgent problems in today’s game - in fact it should be done two years ago already. AI is future in many IT branches (i am myself leader of development in small company), why not use it to save / improve WoT also?

 

Please accept my apology, since i am not native english speaker. Thak you for reading and voting.

 

Thanks for your opinions,

 

with Regards

 

Arne

 


SuedKAT #2 Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:13 AM

    Lieutenant General

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Well even though the MM got quite screwed by having two separate modes in AW, one PvP and one PvE I still think that's the more desirable option than to fill random battles with bots. In WoT historical battles failed since no one wanted to play the "underdogs", but with bots that ain't an issue. So I'd rather see historical tank battles brought back but as a PvE mode instead as well as similar setups.

 

I also see bots as a great tool when it comes to tutorials, a monthly tutorial mission which touch on mechanics, smart tactics etc etc would be great to as good as possible teach players the mechanics and share tips and tricks, a small incentive to play these mission would mean that most play through them as well.


Edited by SuedKAT, 12 December 2017 - 11:14 AM.


Jigabachi #3 Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:26 AM

    Field Marshal

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PvE, tutorials, that would be ok.
But bots mixed into normal matches? Hell no! And not only because WG is incompetent and will screw that all up...

 

btw: That poll is nonsense.


Edited by Jigabachi, 12 December 2017 - 11:29 AM.


Aikl #4 Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:28 AM

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Server load would likely be an issue. The Halloween mode, which featured what seemed like on-rail scripted bots with autoaim rather than AI, seemed to stress the servers enormously. Improving them would likely mean a lot of effort, and running several thousand AI bots ...maybe the CIA can spare one of their supercomputers?

 

I support the tutorial aspect. Could even be a part of a 'challenge' system. Spot tanks, block damage, win against one or multiple superior enemy tanks, races ...well, it gets pointless kind of quick, but 'challenge mode' is an easy way to disguise a tutorial - for example when you advance to a new tier.


Edited by Aikl, 12 December 2017 - 11:29 AM.


dimethylcadmium #5 Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:29 AM

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If we had PvE across all tiers, i would completely ditch Randoms, because they are too Random and the noobs are extremely unpredictable/useless most of the time.

 

WoWs has a good PvE mode (Co-op), the bots are actually pretty decent (i'd say equivalent to a 1200 WN8 player in WoT, they know how to aim torps properly and evade them for instance)

 

but the downside is you get way less XP & credits than playing Random battles. Don't see why this wouldn't work in WoT? Maybe they will implement it once the population starts going south.



cragarion #6 Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:57 AM

    Major

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They cant even sort out Simple matters, 

how the hell do you think they will sort out something as complicated as AI tanks,

with the Capabilities of today's AI's balancing them so they don't just wipe the enemy team out in seconds or get wiped out in seconds would be impossible for WG,

There are enough problems in WoT at the moment without bringing in more.



__H3H3__ #7 Posted 12 December 2017 - 12:06 PM

    Warrant Officer

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I thought bots were already in the game? I have seen a lot of them on my team!

eldrak #8 Posted 12 December 2017 - 12:57 PM

    Second Lieutenant

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Interesting suggestion. But sadly I think it's outside the scope of the current game.

 

If they added something like this it would have to be a separate gamemode (Like PvE was in AW). Then they could use the game clients of the players for running the AI so the server would not have to do it, it would (almost) be just like another player.



Martijn_mk2 #9 Posted 12 December 2017 - 04:47 PM

    Sergeant

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Seperate PvE mode, YES.
Bots in random battles, please no.

Didnt vote in the poll, because it is mission a couple of options.

Schepel #10 Posted 12 December 2017 - 04:51 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

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We already have bots. They don't solve much, instead they make for unimaginative and crappy games. Thanks, but no thanks.

hson_hson #11 Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:13 PM

    Corporal

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Here is an example of the PvE mode on Console and you can see how the AI actually works

 



japtank #12 Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:14 PM

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Idea worth considering IMO.

Phobos4321 #13 Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:24 PM

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i dont like the idea to mix bots with players

 

a pve mode or some special event like halloween might be differnt

 

thought imnot really sure  if they really had some AI  controlled stuff or rather scripted behaviour. 

 

as scripts would make them highly predictable 

 

just look at quake or doom the first time playing it you might have fun  if you know behind this corner awaits ...  lost its scare/surprise factor

 

you can see bots at work at wows quite a bit  pve mode , missions etc  thought  wows is far more simple than wot, less working with cover, less complexe maps, no terrain differneces etc   



Homer_J #14 Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:38 PM

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Well the bots in WoWP are doing a good enough job of filling up the slots but I don't think WoT needs them.

rustysprite #15 Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:43 PM

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View Postanother_Ghost_Shell, on 12 December 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

I thought bots were already in the game? I have seen a lot of them on my team!

 

I think you must have encountered a Dinger  'toon ...    :P

Pandabird #16 Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:46 PM

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If it's a self learning bot and 1 on each team it'd be super interesting.

Probably unicum stats within half a year of self developement, and after that it'd get outright scary.

unhappy_bunny #17 Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:48 PM

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What was the "usp" of WoT? It was playing in a team with other players against a team of other players. Your skills against their skills.

I dont want to play against AI controlled tanks. If I did, I would go and play single player games.

 

I also dont think AI bots would solve MM either. I believe that the servers have a limit on how many battles can be formed at a time, so take T8 tanks for instance. If the game filled a T8/9 battle with bots as the lowest tier, there would only be room in that battle for either 6, 10 or at best 14 T8's. Aside from it being less fun, less of a challenge, what would happen to the rest of the players who picked T8's. or T7's ot T6's? They would be sitting around waiting for a suitable battle to become available. And would it stop the moaning about the number of 40%ers as top tier? No, because it would facilitate more chances for them as they would be unable to fit into lowest tier battle slots. 

 

Full marks for trying to think of ways to improve the game OP, but for me this idea doesnt work. 

 



Schemezoid #18 Posted 12 December 2017 - 05:58 PM

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Half the people playing are doing less damage then the average bot would do....

Jamadeus #19 Posted 12 December 2017 - 06:25 PM

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I'm trying my best to save the game, I don't know if I can do it on my own though.

rancidpunk #20 Posted 12 December 2017 - 06:42 PM

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Armored Warfare had great bots and a decent PvE mode, so good in fact that everybody stopped playing PvP and the game failed miserably!





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