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Strv S: bulldozer and smoke dischargers

documentary strv swedish idea

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Tomotorqemada #1 Posted 12 December 2017 - 08:04 PM

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Here s a docu bout strv. I definitelly cherish the ideas presented at

2:44 and 5:33



jack_timber #2 Posted 12 December 2017 - 08:19 PM

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Yes and the autoloader, if this was fitted it would fire 15 rounds per minute, just think about the DPM.

Interesting video to see it in action.

 



Tomotorqemada #3 Posted 12 December 2017 - 08:26 PM

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View Postjack_timber, on 12 December 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

Yes and the autoloader, if this was fitted it would fire 15 rounds per minute, just think about the DPM.

Interesting video to see it in action.

 

 

well i guess then there would be SUCH A HOWL,and sheet will hit the fan (many fans in fact, lol) tho it rly seems that most of those howlers have no idea about the number of paperlayers that compose Strv armor

magkiln #4 Posted 12 December 2017 - 08:27 PM

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View Postjack_timber, on 12 December 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

Yes and the autoloader, if this was fitted it would fire 15 rounds per minute, just think about the DPM.

Interesting video to see it in action.

 

 

Except that you have to reload from outside of the tank, so A) it can only reload whil standing still and B) crew should be automatically killed if the tank is hit while reloading. (The same applies to all French autoloaders)

Edited by magkiln, 12 December 2017 - 08:28 PM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #5 Posted 12 December 2017 - 09:20 PM

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View Postmagkiln, on 12 December 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

 

Except that you have to reload from outside of the tank, so A) it can only reload whil standing still and B) crew should be automatically killed if the tank is hit while reloading. (The same applies to all French autoloaders)

 

The strv is a defensive weapon unlike french auto loaders, so the fighting doctrine and tactics is different. While the strv can run away to reload from a safer position, the french can get stuck in the battle quite easily even behind enemy lines (happened to the Israelis in 1967).

Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 12 December 2017 - 09:21 PM.


etody77 #6 Posted 12 December 2017 - 09:31 PM

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New mechanics for autoloader, tank will stay, no move, only recharge

Tomotorqemada #7 Posted 12 December 2017 - 11:14 PM

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View Postmagkiln, on 12 December 2017 - 08:27 PM, said:

 

Except that you have to reload from outside of the tank, so A) it can only reload whil standing still and B) crew should be automatically killed if the tank is hit while reloading. (The same applies to all French autoloaders)

 

mate the problem is you dont have to reload it lol its a 50-loader autoloader. Its in the docu, take heed
 

View Postetody77, on 12 December 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

New mechanics for autoloader, tank will stay, no move, only recharge

 

thoiugh this idea seems interesting
 

Derethim #8 Posted 13 December 2017 - 01:43 AM

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Holy crap.

An invisible, impenetrable TD with an autoloader and a smoke screen.

OHPEEEE

 

Also, wondering why the swedes abandoned the design. It seemed effective. But probably because of the lack of anti-infantry capabilities.



Aikl #9 Posted 13 December 2017 - 02:52 AM

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View PostDerethim, on 13 December 2017 - 12:43 AM, said:

(...)

 

Also, wondering why the swedes abandoned the design. It seemed effective. But probably because of the lack of anti-infantry capabilities.

 

There are a number of reasons that I can think of. The short version would be that the design had a lot of advantages when it was conceived, but became effectively obsolete.

Gun stabilization was not really effective back then, so being limited to stationary fire was not a huge deal. Armor was effective against the then-common rounds, but not really against sabot (the 'long rods;) rounds (and HEAT without the 'fence' in front). Then you can add the relative complexity of the design (two engines), the declining need for a tank suited to defensive warfare and seemingly having to keep both the 103 and the Centurion in service.

 

There were plans for upgrading it as late as the 90s (in case the acquirement of a new tank would be delayed), but it was certainly beyond its lifespan even during the 80s upgrade. While the Swedes opted for licensing the Leopard 2(A5) design (Stridsvagn 122) in the end, there were some studies on domestic designs before that. From what I can gather the Western MBTs on offer proved sufficient for the Swedish army's needs, were cheaper (no development cost) and could be acquired faster. The domestic project were abandoned as a result.

 

This page has a lot of good reading, although in Swedish: http://www.ointres.se/strv_2000.htm

Doubtful how relevant they'd be for WoT. Maybe the prototype designs, but chances are they are too modern (smoothbores, composite armor).

 

Strv. 2000 concept, M1A1, Leopard 2A4:

Spoiler

 

Sweden did acquire a Tiger II post-WW2 for testing, rather surprised WG hasn't used it as a T7 premium tank yet:

http://www.ointres.s...n_i_sverige.htm

Spoiler

 



etody77 #10 Posted 13 December 2017 - 03:00 AM

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View PostDerethim, on 13 December 2017 - 01:43 AM, said:

 

Also, wondering why the swedes abandoned the design. It seemed effective. But probably because of the lack of anti-infantry capabilities.

The design was very good for defence in WW2, but not in modern war, where mobility is the key. Russia and Germany abandoned their TD prejets too



K_A #11 Posted 13 December 2017 - 03:39 AM

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View Postetody77, on 13 December 2017 - 02:00 AM, said:

The design was very good for defence in WW2, but not in modern war, where mobility is the key. Russia and Germany abandoned their TD prejets too

 

You forget the STRV wasn't a TD, but a MBT. Also, I get the feeling you don't really know what the terrain in Sweden is and what the intended use case scenario would have been. A tank in the Nordic forests that can hide really well and get the first shots in against an advancing enemy is devastating. They don't need to be mobile while engaging, the point is to stay hidden, wait for the enemy to come to you, fire and destroy targets and if there are too many, get out of dodge after taking a few shots, and the STRV was the perfect design for that, even long after the wars. Yes, modern war is different to WWII, but in such a heavily forested area like Scandinavia all enemy vehicles are still tied to very predictable paths and roads that can easily be fortified and put on watch ahead of time.

 

During WWII in 1943 the Finnish army got 30 Stugs from Germany, and they destroyed at least 87 Russian tanks while losing only 8 of the Stugs. The terrain in Finland is awfully similar to Sweden, we are neighbouring countries after all. Same tactics.



etody77 #12 Posted 13 December 2017 - 05:58 AM

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You have forgott something: in modern days, battles are not fought only betwen tanks, there are infantry and helicopters on battlefield. For TG#S like STRV is a little hard to relocate fast. Infantry have new antitank weapons, more dangerous than tanks himself. Once spotted, tanks are useless. Sweden bought some Leopards from Germany, T62 from USSR, and Ariette, from Italy. 

jabster #13 Posted 13 December 2017 - 07:08 AM

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View PostK_A, on 13 December 2017 - 02:39 AM, said:

 

You forget the STRV wasn't a TD, but a MBT. Also, I get the feeling you don't really know what the terrain in Sweden is and what the intended use case scenario would have been. A tank in the Nordic forests that can hide really well and get the first shots in against an advancing enemy is devastating. They don't need to be mobile while engaging, the point is to stay hidden, wait for the enemy to come to you, fire and destroy targets and if there are too many, get out of dodge after taking a few shots, and the STRV was the perfect design for that, even long after the wars. Yes, modern war is different to WWII, but in such a heavily forested area like Scandinavia all enemy vehicles are still tied to very predictable paths and roads that can easily be fortified and put on watch ahead of time.

 

During WWII in 1943 the Finnish army got 30 Stugs from Germany, and they destroyed at least 87 Russian tanks while losing only 8 of the Stugs. The terrain in Finland is awfully similar to Sweden, we are neighbouring countries after all. Same tactics.

 

The ‘story’ of the British testing the S-Tank makes an interesting read. Long story short, it’s good for defending Sweden but the British weren’t defending Sweden.

 

https://defenceoftherealm.wordpress.com/2015/08/28/the-british-army-and-the-s-tank/


Edited by jabster, 13 December 2017 - 07:08 AM.


DracheimFlug #14 Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:45 AM

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As for the smoke dischargers, pretty much every AFV has had smoke dischargers since some time in WWII. They are hardly unique to this vehicle. The problem with them is that smoke is hard to present well in game without a lot of extra processing requirements. There is also the problem that there is enough whining over visibility as it is without smoke in game. 

jabster #15 Posted 13 December 2017 - 10:27 AM

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View PostDracheimFlug, on 13 December 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

As for the smoke dischargers, pretty much every AFV has had smoke dischargers since some time in WWII. They are hardly unique to this vehicle. The problem with them is that smoke is hard to present well in game without a lot of extra processing requirements. There is also the problem that there is enough whining over visibility as it is without smoke in game. 

 

On a positive note, just think of the increased opportunities to grief your own team mates.

Enforcer1975 #16 Posted 13 December 2017 - 11:48 AM

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View Postmagkiln, on 12 December 2017 - 08:27 PM, said:

 

Except that you have to reload from outside of the tank, so A) it can only reload whil standing still and B) crew should be automatically killed if the tank is hit while reloading. (The same applies to all French autoloaders)

 

View PostXxKuzkina_MatxX, on 12 December 2017 - 09:20 PM, said:

 

The strv is a defensive weapon unlike french auto loaders, so the fighting doctrine and tactics is different. While the strv can run away to reload from a safer position, the french can get stuck in the battle quite easily even behind enemy lines (happened to the Israelis in 1967).

 

Doesn't change the fact that both ( and every other tank ) has to retreat at some point to top off their shells and maybe fuel with crew and service personel in the open.

Difference between the AMX autoloaders is that they only have 12 rounds in drums magazines after which they have to move far away from the fighting area to reload while the S-tank and most others have more than enough ammo for a prolonged firefight.


Edited by Enforcer1975, 13 December 2017 - 11:48 AM.


DracheimFlug #17 Posted 13 December 2017 - 12:04 PM

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View Postjabster, on 13 December 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

 

On a positive note, just think of the increased opportunities to grief your own team mates.

 

A valid third reason for not implementing them... although that does not seem to be a significant problem in WoWs.
 

View PostEnforcer1975, on 13 December 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

 

 

Doesn't change the fact that both ( and every other tank ) has to retreat at some point to top off their shells and maybe fuel with crew and service personel in the open.

Difference between the AMX autoloaders is that they only have 12 rounds in drums magazines after which they have to move far away from the fighting area to reload while the S-tank and most others have more than enough ammo for a prolonged firefight.

 

Is it really a single 50 round clip though? Or does it just carry a total of 50 rounds (in multiple clips) and has an autoloader? There is a difference. Having watched the video they seem to be saying one magazine of 50 but that is a lot of shells and they are not small. 15 is a lot more believable. Mistranslation from Swedish somewhere?

 

In other news, the real thing cannot fire on the move.... 


 

SuperOlsson #18 Posted 13 December 2017 - 12:49 PM

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View PostDracheimFlug, on 13 December 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

 

Is it really a single 50 round clip though? Or does it just carry a total of 50 rounds (in multiple clips) and has an autoloader? There is a difference. Having watched the video they seem to be saying one magazine of 50 but that is a lot of shells and they are not small. 15 is a lot more believable. Mistranslation from Swedish somewhere?

 

In other news, the real thing cannot fire on the move.... 

 

It is a 50 round autoloader, it can choose to load from different racks so you can alter between ammo types any way you want, so it doesn’t have the traditional “clip” as other tanks do in wot, but is still a 50 round autoloader.

DracheimFlug #19 Posted 13 December 2017 - 01:36 PM

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View PostSuperOlsson, on 13 December 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

 

It is a 50 round autoloader, it can choose to load from different racks so you can alter between ammo types any way you want, so it doesn’t have the traditional “clip” as other tanks do in wot, but is still a 50 round autoloader.

 

How do they fit 50 shells in there? The entire hull must be ammo rack....

Tomotorqemada #20 Posted 13 December 2017 - 01:40 PM

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View Postetody77, on 13 December 2017 - 03:00 AM, said:

The design was very good for defence in WW2, but not in modern war, where mobility is the key. Russia and Germany abandoned their TD prejets too

I dont see how strvs have a problem with mobility

View PostDerethim, on 13 December 2017 - 01:43 AM, said:

Holy crap.

An invisible, impenetrable TD with an autoloader and a smoke screen.

OHPEEEE

 

Also, wondering why the swedes abandoned the design. It seemed effective. But probably because of the lack of anti-infantry capabilities.

I would seriously doubt the 'impenetrable' part =)) with +-30 mm armor

View PostAikl, on 13 December 2017 - 02:52 AM, said:

 

 

This page has a lot of good reading, although in Swedish: http://www.ointres.se/strv_2000.htm

Doubtful how relevant they'd be for WoT. Maybe the prototype designs, but chances are they are too modern (smoothbores, composite armor).

 

 

Wee given that swedish line has only 2 branches sofar, that could be of interest to WG =)






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