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So what is the point of the KV4?

KV4 pointless

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markje_94 #1 Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:00 PM

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So Ive been wanting the ST-I for ages, so I grinded through to KV4, it was pretty fun, even KV3 was, but now I have been trying to get any bit of fun out of the KV4 and its just not there.

Top tier the armour is decent, but the moment they dab 2 key they can pen your turret with ease, like with front facing its 180 for most of the turret and at best angle it goes to about 190 to 250...

Its got terrible mobility, no view range and camo rating, the gun doesnt trade very well, but it is a nice gun as long as the enemy isnt focussed on shooting you, but due to the sluggishness of the tank you have to either work the magic of RNG or expose yourself too long to get shot.

 

And lets not even talk about the armour when same tier/bottom tier, like anything can pen you with standard rounds. If i compare this to ANY other tier 8 it comes out as the worst choice, most of them have more armour, not in thickness, but in effective armour for sure, most of them have better view range, better camo, a similar gun and better mobility.

There are very few tanks I really cant make to work, but this is one that REALLY deserves a buff, I had one truly fun match and that was against tier 6s/7s that were too greedy to dab 2 key and couldnt/werent allowed by me to flank, that sucks pretty bad IMO. (especially considering the current MM)

 

If Im missing something, you have some tips/tricks please tell, cause the only use I see is the god-tier side armour, but as you cant expose your turret much that would basically serve as a mobile cover for your allies...

 

As an add-on: I know most stock grinds are bad, but in the KV4 it eventually just resulted in me shooting mostly HE, because that way you could expose quite little and at least you would do some damage quite often...


Edited by markje_94, 13 December 2017 - 08:02 PM.


qpranger #2 Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:02 PM

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The point of KV4 is exercise in self-flagellation.

RamRaid90 #3 Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:03 PM

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Ask Urquan.

Nishi_Kinuyo #4 Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:03 PM

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-pushes UrQuan button-

markje_94 #5 Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:03 PM

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View PostRamRaid90, on 13 December 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

Ask Urquan.

 

Who is Urquan?

captainpigg #6 Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:04 PM

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Simple really, learn how to side-scrape then extend middle finger to tier 10 TD's firing gold.

markje_94 #7 Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:05 PM

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View Postcaptainpigg, on 13 December 2017 - 08:04 PM, said:

Simple really, learn how to side-scrape then extend middle finger to tier 10 TD's firing gold.

 

If you read my entire post I know that, but as I tried to explain, the turret armour is so shitty you can basically only act as mobile cover for allies as you cant expose the turret and thus cannot shoot back...

Edited by markje_94, 13 December 2017 - 08:06 PM.


CoDiGGo #8 Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:14 PM

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Power creep and gold spam meta

 

KV4

 

 

Defender



Uebergewicht #9 Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:19 PM

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The KV-4 used to be fun, but it is brutally overshadowed by some of the newer tier 8 heavies. The VK 100 is the worst offender here, it holds every advantage over the KV-4 it´s not even funny. While I was a fan of the 4tress, I sold mine recently and moved the crew elsewhere. If I´m in the mood for tier 8 super heavies, the VK 100 is the way to go.

 

You can still play the KV-4, but the amount of things you have to look out for is not even funny, You basically have to sidescrape, as your poorly angled  upper plate is not reliable. Your turret is way too flat head on and the mini-turret on top means even hulldown, you´re unreliable. You only have average alpha so you don´t trade too well, neither your pen nor your dpm are anything special, and to top it all of, you´re blind as a bat. The tank has been powercrept to hell, the ST-1 got nerfed with the HD model, and basically the entire line is pointless right now (with the possible excpetion of the T-150). WG promised a rework of the line ages ago but has done absolutely nothing so far, all the while they´re working on two entirely new Soviet heavy lines, so they´re probably not giving a damn about the IS-4 line right now. It´s a shame, really.



markje_94 #10 Posted 13 December 2017 - 08:26 PM

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View PostUebergewicht, on 13 December 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:

The KV-4 used to be fun, but it is brutally overshadowed by some of the newer tier 8 heavies. The VK 100 is the worst offender here, it holds every advantage over the KV-4 it´s not even funny. While I was a fan of the 4tress, I sold mine recently and moved the crew elsewhere. If I´m in the mood for tier 8 super heavies, the VK 100 is the way to go.

 

You can still play the KV-4, but the amount of things you have to look out for is not even funny, You basically have to sidescrape, as your poorly angled  upper plate is not reliable. Your turret is way too flat head on and the mini-turret on top means even hulldown, you´re unreliable. You only have average alpha so you don´t trade too well, neither your pen nor your dpm are anything special, and to top it all of, you´re blind as a bat. The tank has been powercrept to hell, the ST-1 got nerfed with the HD model, and basically the entire line is pointless right now (with the possible excpetion of the T-150). WG promised a rework of the line ages ago but has done absolutely nothing so far, all the while they´re working on two entirely new Soviet heavy lines, so they´re probably not giving a damn about the IS-4 line right now. It´s a shame, really.

 

Thats really sad, but did ST-I really get nerfed, that would kinda piss me off with all the shitty games I have played in it, like it wasnt even for a good cause anymore :(

UrQuan #11 Posted 13 December 2017 - 10:07 PM

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View Postmarkje_94, on 13 December 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

View PostRamRaid90, on 13 December 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

Ask Urquan.

 

View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 13 December 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

-pushes UrQuan button-
Who is Urquan?

 

My name rang thrice, so I answer the call

 

Part of the problem with KV-4 is the current MM, which is very harsh to T8 tanks of any kind. Really drains the fun out of it for me.

On top of it, its grind isn't the most pleasant (please get the topgun first, above anything else). And if you think that was bad, ST-I stock grind makes KV-4 stock grind look like paradise (tip: either save up free XP for the second gun on ST-I or unlock it through the IS-3)

And as mentioned, KV-4 got powercreeped; mainly by two tanks who got released recently: Defender & VK 100 (before their release, KV-4 resisted the powercreep rather fine imo). 

 

With that said, you did touch on the important aspects already: the front armor is not really special for todays armored T8 tanks, but its side are still very strong. You got to sidescrape alot & when moving around, always drive angled. The KV-4 is a rather narrow tank, coupled with the thick side armor & this you make your front a narrow target to shoot at when driving around angled (or zig-zag)

It is a rather specialized tank tho, so it tends to decide where you go, usually: go heavy cover areas (houses & rocks & the line) and avoid hilly terrains when you can (the gun depression isn't good enough + your cupola makes it hard to do something on hills without announcing your intentions to the enemy)

 

So what's it's purpose? Rock the cities/rocky areas at any tier.

When toptier, it excels at holding points, being tough to break down & push the enemy when able. It's one of those tanks that can hold a point despite being outnumbered. Do keep an eye on that front, don't expose it needlessly. As toptier, you are a terror in any city/rocky area when played to it's strengths.

KV-4 has armor you can angle easily, so use that to your advantage, pay attention to enemy guns & angle accordingly.

 

Sometimes, it's just a small change from easy pen to hard to pen

 

When mid/bottomtier, you are more a support tank for your other heavies. You do have a great APCR shell, with 289mm pen, enough to hurt about any tank you face, even TX ones. but here still stands: angle up: never face the enemy directly, but angle your hull. You'd be surprised what shots you can bounce/absorb like this.

Still, you are a heavy that traded in mobility for armor; and you're not toptier, so try avoid being shot anywhere but your angled side-armor. let your bigger, meaner HT's take the shots for you & then assist them when able.

Or you can assist your meds, on condition that the med flank isn't hilly terrain & has some hard cover. You can function as an anchorpoint for your meds, a location where they can pull back safely & you can make enemy meds rethink their priorities when they show up. Do know that this can be risky, because KV-4 is not mobile & can be flanked with ease.

 

Something that works great irrelevant of tier placement. On maps with known TD camp spots, find a location where you can sidescrape & tease the enemy to come for you, only to be shot by your TD support, while your sidescraping (when popping out) helps you defend against their enemy hostile fire.

This can also work in reverse; if you know of a favorite enemy TD camp spot, sidescrape against that location & let them focus on you (and see those shells bounce your glorious side-armor). it works great as a distraction & helps your team by making it easier for them.

Do note; sidescraping in this regard is not to stand still but rather move forth & back randomly, increasing your armor through this, as it nullifies the enemies attempt to hit some of your weakspots.

Example of sidescraping against a known TD spot: Erlenberg

 

In short, it's purpose: when toptier: bully everything, anything with less then 220 pen will have trouble with you & even higher pens won't go through easy (drive angled!)

Mid/bottom: be support to your heavies, or if you know the area well, you can be an anchorpoint for your med flank

All tiers: be the guy that goes *Pay attention to me, I'm the threat! Not that paper TD in the back, or that roaming med/light! Ignore those! Pay attention to meeeeee!*

 

Do note: the KV-4 is very team reliant, it has abysmal viewrange, often relying on others to spot + it has bad traverse, so it often relies on others to prevent being flanked; hence: Never go alone!

On the other hand, with a minimum of support, the KV-4 excels at holding the line against far superior numbers, giving your other guys an easier time, while you hold the line.

 

Also:

KV-4 always has right of way

 

edit: Last bit that is important; if you notice enemy tanks that got a shot on you & they're not shooting: beware, for they are the good players, waiting till you angle badly towards them. Good players won't shoot you if they can't pen you (most of the time).

Best way to get rid of them is to keep denying them that damage, as most like to dish out damage to help their team win & will likely move on at some point (if not: congratulations; he considers you threat number 1!)

Keep in mind: Any shot they hold back because you are too well angled is a shot not fired on your teammates. Tanking shots for the team is more then just blocked damage after all.


Edited by UrQuan, 13 December 2017 - 10:57 PM.


HassenderZerhacker #12 Posted 13 December 2017 - 11:45 PM

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personally, I don't have much problems with KV-4 armor, I think it's good and I bounce as much with it as I bounce with the VK 100.01P

 

my main problems with that tank are twofold: gun aiming time and dispersion as well as view range. Both are catastrophic.

The gun is the main weakness.

While the pen could be acceptable, it's just too unprecise to be of any real use. Even fully aimed in, only about 50% of shells hit a stationary tank that's 300m away :-(

just horrible.


Edited by HassenderZerhacker, 13 December 2017 - 11:49 PM.


TankkiPoju #13 Posted 14 December 2017 - 09:39 AM

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I kind of liked KV-4.

 

But then again, I played before Defenders and Patriots or Skorpions were in the game... or buffed Löwe... or VK100.01... or Chrysler... or current tier 8 MM... or Liberte...

 



Igor_BL #14 Posted 14 December 2017 - 09:49 AM

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Not sure if I am proud to be in front of Urquan or disappointed by him, because he let this happen.


I loved KV4. And it was fun, indeed... As said earlier, not sure why.
Yeah, any good player will pen you easily, but probably there are far more bad players in game, then the good ones, so kv4 get his place in  current craptier8 MM..

gun is good. AP pen is good, APCR is godlike. I tend to overangle and let them shoot sides. It is better then to angle "right" and let them shoot your front or turret.

1-1 with VK 100.01P you are f up. Because that tank does everything better then kv4, plus has idiotic viewrange of 400m.

I loved one game on Prokhorovka, where e50 in full speed rammed me into the sides... he took all of his HP (800?) and made 150 DMG.


Edited by Igor_BL, 14 December 2017 - 09:51 AM.


Excavatus #15 Posted 14 December 2017 - 11:00 AM

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You got your answer from Urquan I presume..

He is by-far the best and most dedicated KV4 player I've ever seen... And I am happy that I have him as my teammate when we toon up regularly.

 

As a small time (and fail) KV4 driver and a big time KV4 toonmate, I must say.. the most important thing about playing KV4 is.. get attention..

do not.. I repeat DO NOT play that tank by being afraid.

I cant stress this enough.. like all of the other super heavies.. your main duty is to GET THE ATTENTION of the enemy.. read the teams.. know the maps..

give those pesky camping TDs a juicy target that they think will pen like butter but cant in reality. They will get into tunnel vision quicker then the reload of T67...

Get the attention of the arties... the 750K credits I paid for SUperHeavySpallLiner was the best money I've spent... If they dont hit your engine deck from above (happened to me only once)

the max damage you get from even tier 10 arties are 200-250.. tier 8 arties 20-50.. thats all..

 

Get out there.. be in the front.. get attention.. do that on the heavy side If you are top or mid tier..

do that on med side if you are bottom tier..

 

Hell I know Urquan had a lot of spotter medals with KV4...

Kudos to you boss!


Edited by Excavatus, 14 December 2017 - 11:00 AM.


Cobra6 #16 Posted 14 December 2017 - 11:25 AM

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Funny, my average damage blocked per match in the KV-4 is ~1850 (more HP than the tank) and my winratio is a nice 58%, guess you must be playing yours wrong.

 

KV-4 is an awesome heavy tank that requires good angling skills to work, in other words what tanks like the Maus/Type *SHOULD* be but aren't. You have to be disciplined and consistent for it to work and when you master that, you'll see.

Also, don't sit still like a lemon, keep moving.

 

I always use mine for the HT-12 missions where you need to bounce X amount of times your own HP because the KV-4 doesn't have super high HP but has got very effective armour so it works like a charm for that.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 14 December 2017 - 11:33 AM.


markje_94 #17 Posted 14 December 2017 - 07:13 PM

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Im not saying im doing badly, im doing okayish, but it just doesnt feel fun as you have to work incredibly hard to do well. And especially that miniturret on top is a nightmare to deal with.

Like I get what IM reading and REALLY appreciate all the tips and tricks and stuff, but it does sound like its incredibly teamdependent and stupid ally dependent. (like the SuperP)

especially @urquan but again I might be overangling my turret and stuff, but dont you feel they can pen the miniturret regardless of the angle. At range the armour is pretty decent as they cant hit the flat parts of the turret and miniturret that well, but in close combat you are a superheavy that doesnt work like one..

At least its good to know im not the only one thinking its not very good.

 

@cobra6 Your right about the hull the problem is that even more than pre-buff mouse the turret armour is pretty bad when facing you directly and even angled perfectly there are plenty of <220 areas, so its either not expose the turret or hope for the best, like I think it could be fixed quite easily buff the turret to about 200mm of armour and/or give the tank better gun performance. (Being a punchier, higher alpha gun, so you can trade, or better gun handling/ROF)

Oh and a view range buff to 380m, like the IS3 has the camo rating to not be hurt too ridiculously much by the view range, but the KV4 has no camo rating, but is also blind as a bat. (IS3 almost has 3 times the camo KV4 has...)

 

And about my stats in the KV4, I have a 52% WR over 52 battles, and only 890dmg blocked on average. And now I tried to rely more on blocking damage, but frankly most maps dont allow for it, your best trick is to just "overangke" the side armour, cause a lot of people shoot at your side and it is still impervious almost. 

I had some decent matches, slightly over 2k dmg done and blocked, but on the other hand i also had a game on redshire, where I only did a massive 300 spotting dmg, because everyone and their mum could shoot my cupola before I could do anything, and you know the thing is the great armour is on the side and whenever you want to shoot you are gonna take damage period and if a map only has hills as cover and not much well placed solid cover the kv4 is fucked. Yes I enjoyed bouncing 2 IS7 rounds of my side, but that didnt weigh up to the 13 90 punching straight through that same front.

 

Edit: Looking at VBaddict, I cant understand why WG doesnt buff it the KV4 is among the 5 worst performing tanks at tier 8 and that is with the current superheavy meta...


Edited by markje_94, 14 December 2017 - 07:14 PM.


Pansenmann #18 Posted 14 December 2017 - 07:50 PM

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I even re-bought the KV-4 after having sold the IS-8 / T-10 twice now. :)

but it was just for nostalgia, nothing else.



Dava_117 #19 Posted 14 December 2017 - 08:49 PM

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Almost everything as been said. KV-4 is still a capable tank, just powercreeped. I still enjoy mine, even if it's hard to compete. :)

Excavatus #20 Posted 15 December 2017 - 06:39 AM

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they cant buff a tank because it is the worst performing according to the vbaddict.

Because they are numbers, and there has to be some numbers smaller then others. There will be always "3 worst performing tanks of all" at any given time.

so you buff the last one on the list, which makes you push another tank into that list :)







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