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My impressions of the 2nd French HT line

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Poll: French HT line - opinions (44 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

What you think about the AMX 65t (tier VIII)?

  1. Utterly overpowered and definitely needs a nerf. (1 vote [2.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.27%

  2. Strong and competitive tank. Might be slightly too good, even. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Fairly good tank. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. Average. (4 votes [9.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

  5. Below average, pretty lacking but usable. Might need a small buff. (3 votes [6.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.82%

  6. Bad tank and needs a buff, (5 votes [11.36%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.36%

  7. Absolutely terrible piece of trash and needs a noticeable buff. (31 votes [70.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 70.45%

What you think about the AMX M4 mle. 51 (tier IX)?

  1. Utterly overpowered and definitely needs a nerf. (5 votes [11.36%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.36%

  2. Strong and competitive tank. Might be slightly too good, even. (18 votes [40.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 40.91%

  3. Fairly good tank. (8 votes [18.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.18%

  4. Average. (8 votes [18.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.18%

  5. Below average, pretty lacking but usable. Might need a small buff. (2 votes [4.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.55%

  6. Bad tank and needs a buff. (1 vote [2.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.27%

  7. Absolutely terrible piece of trash and needs a noticeable buff. (2 votes [4.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.55%

What you think about the AMX M4 mle. 54 (tier X)?

  1. Utterly overpowered and definitely needs a nerf. (1 vote [2.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.27%

  2. Strong and competitive tank. Might be slightly too good, even. (1 vote [2.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.27%

  3. Fairly good tank. (9 votes [20.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.45%

  4. Average. (17 votes [38.64%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.64%

  5. Below average, pretty lacking but usable. Might need a small buff. (9 votes [20.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.45%

  6. Bad tank and needs a buff. (3 votes [6.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.82%

  7. Absolutely terrible piece of trash and needs a noticeable buff. (4 votes [9.09%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.09%

Vote Hide poll

leggasiini #1 Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:24 PM

    Lieutenant General

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So here we are, finally a new line. A line that is actually a new line and not a part of reworks or a clone line full of fake tanks that people has already forgotten that line exists. The French 2nd HT line.

 

I decided to do the review right away when I finished the tier 8, instead of grinding the entire line and then making a review. I will update the review whenever I finish a tank. I have finished grinding the line as of 19th December 2k17 :^)

 

The rating system (which is used on this all reviews I will do in the future).

 

The review's rating system is what I shamelessly and selfishly call "legga-index", as seen in a chart below:

 

Spoiler

 

This is based on my reviews what I have done on Wotlabs.

 

The 5/10 is not "average" in this scenario. Instead, 6/10 is the average. Reason for this is because:

 

1) there are way more levels of "bad" tanks than "good" tanks in the game

 

2) "1/10" rating is reserved for very few special cases that are utter massive jokes and practically pathetic unplayable pieces of excuse on this planet. However, there probably isn't any tank in the game right now that would deserve a 1/10 rating. Something like prebuff Type 95 HT and M5 stuart with ability to meet tier 8s are candidates for something as awful as 1/10 rating. So practically, the 6/10 is 

 

And it just feels more natural - 5/10 feels pretty low to be fair and not really an average, doesn't it?

 

Anyway, you get the point.

 

-------------------------

 

I am not gonna review the entire line on very detailed level, because the tier 2-7 are not new tanks and I predict that the most people have already played them or at least know what kind of tanks those are. However, I guess giving small quick impressions about the tier 2-7 could be helpful for those who didn't give a damn about the French autoloading baguettes, but could be interested in single baguettes.

 

Tier 2-4 are just bleh crappy heavies with poor guns and poor mobility but good armor. When they are top tier they can be ok, but bottom tier they just suck hard. BDR G1 B is pretty fun, though only thing it has going for is the alpha damage and decent penetration, but its workable. ARL 44 has a horrible platform, is slow as heck, and has very...derpy and weird guns. With 105 mm + gold + good crew + food it would be actually quite nasty, but I didnt have the latter two so...ehh. And without that I'd rate it like 2nd worst regular HT or so. Its just a very weird crapbox but at least its just a tier 6. It is quite a lot similar to something that will come in the future when you progress the line...but at least ARL has either stupidly insane penetration or high alpha + pen.

 

AMX M4 45 is just...bad. No wonder why everyone was upset how they would need to rebuy that vehicle in order to get the new vehicles. And it does not take that long to figure out why da tank just sux - it has poor armor, it has relatively lackluster mobility for such package, it has ammorack in its upper plate, its large, has weird gun depression on side (which can be really annoying) and the guns are not even that good. I personally used the 105 + gold, and while it was decent in some scenarios, it was still pretty bad. I have played it in past with long 90 but that was long time ago. With both configs, its just bad. But its playable. Just try to use it as a support tank, bit more snipy with 90 mm and bit more brawly with 105 + gold spam. But its a support tank, kinda workable one. Bad, but workable.

 

And now onto the actual new 2nd french HT line. You would expect, that after suffering just bad tanks (apart from maybe the tier 5) as well as suffering probably one of the worst if not the worst tier 7 HT, you would finally get somewhat relevant heavy tank, which would be actually competitive and a reward for playing so many craptanks? Right? Right?????

 

 

 

 

Well...

 

 

 

Meet the...

 

---------------------------------

 

AMX 65T (tier VIII)

 

How do I even begin this...there is so many things to say about this tank. Ugh. This is super confusing tank in so many billion ways. Lets start off with pros and cons. Firstly, the armor, because the 2nd French HT line is well known for their armor...riiiiight?

 

Protection

 

+ Stock turret has a very good armor.

+ Top turret, while weaker than the stock turret, can still bounce lowtiers and some same tiers. The cupolas may (rarely) troll some lower tiers.

+ Top turret has slightly above average HP (1550)

+ Its so insanely ugly that it might make the enemy so terrified that there is they might miss their first shot, though that might still hit the tank considering how f*cking fat and massive it is.

- No hull armor.

- No camo.

- Its utterly fat and massive.

- Top turret is filled with retarded holes and has at best like 250 effective armor, prepare for utterly stupid penetrations.

- Stock turret has utterly laughable cupola armor. Japanese heavies will penetrate your cupola with their derp HE. Fun.

- Stock turret has bad HP tier-for-tier.

- Driver seems to be just as ugly and obese as the tank itself and dies from literally anywhere at front, gunner dies from frontal turret pens, commander dies from cupolas (aka all the time haHAA)

- Ammorack can be damaged from UFP as well as from the drivewheel. Fun.

 

Overall protection: very bad.

 

For being part of line that was advertised as "armored", rating the protection "very bad" is just outright sad and depressing. Basically, it has probably the 2nd worst armor of all tier 8 HTs after the AMX 50 100 which is not anyhow a heavy at all anyway. The hull armor is outright godawful - even tier 6s have chance to penetrate you with standard ammunition. In addition, it is huge, probably the largest non-super heavy HT at tier 8. It also has crippling module damage and has no camo. Basically, the only things that pretends from the protection being the literally as terrible as possible is that the turrets are kinda decent, but even then they have cupolas and that involves hiding the megagigantic hull. And then you get artied when hulldown - talking of which, the tank does a crapton of arty damage. And just avoid Japanese heavies, those just outright devour you, especially if you use the stock turret (yes, we will get there later). I did get some games where I actually bounced quite a lot, but rarely, and solely because people are still not aware that the turret actually has some armor so they just autoaimed at it. I would say that in few weeks everyone just shoots the cupolas - or why even bother aiming when they can just aim at the massive hull and penetrate it anyway. And lets be honest, the turret is not even that good:

 

(legga wants to warn you that spoiler below contains BIG pictures):

 

Spoiler

First pic, the penetrations are from E 75 APCR and Caernarvon AP (!), next pic is IS-3 penning the mantlet with AP, and on final pic I got penned by another AMX 65t. The stock turret does not have this problem, but it sacrifices for quite a lot of other things like view range, HP and option to use the 120 mm.

 

But hey, it is a French tank and they are not known for their protection...amirite? Well, lets go to the firepower next.

 

Firepower

 

+ Choice of potentially 3 (!) guns. 

+ Great gun depression with stock turret (-10) and decent with top turret (-8).

+ While I didn't try it myself on live server, the stock 90 mm might be actually viable choice because it has by far the best aim time and the DPM.

+ 100 mm has good base penetration.

+ 120 mm has great alpha damage, 2nd best of all regular tier 8 HTs after the VK 100.01 P.

- All guns have trash gun handling.

Bad gun elevation with top turret.

- 90 mm has terrible alpha and poor penetration.

- 100 mm has absolutely horrible aiming time; combined with the bad bloom, the supposedly good base accuracy is basically completely nullified.

- 100 mm has low alpha damage.

- 120 mm has poor penetration and poor DPM.

- 120 mm has even worse GH than the other guns.

 

Overall firepower: below-average. 

 

These guns wouldn't be good at all on any tier 8 HT. For instance, the AMX M4 49 Liberte carries more or less a same 100 mm as the AMX 65t, and I wouldn't call that gun good at all. But the Liberte can actually use that gun because it has pretty good platform. AMX 65t in return has a horrible platform, so lackluster firepower feels effectively much worse than it technically is. Basically all 3 guns have just 1-2 redeeming features, bad gun handling and everything else is somewhere between bad and mediocre. 

 

Great, we are struck with a tank that has terrible overall protection and firepower is also unimpressive, even with its all 3 guns. Wait, aren't the French well known for their excellent mobility? Oh right! 

 

Mobility:

 

+ It has over 17 hp/ton, which is actually very impressive for a heavy! In fact, it beats many medium tanks! Yes, this tank actually has something going fo...

- ...never mind, the power to weight ratio is literally useless and completely negated by the absolutely atrocious terrain resistances. 

- goes uphill as fast as a walrus climbing a rock, aka pretty f*cking slow

- turns like a useless joke

- accelerates terribly

- don't even think about bringing this oxygen wasting trash to hard terrain never ever

 

Overall mobility: very bad.

 

So it has terrible protection, poor guns and awful mobility? Hahahaha hahahaha hahaha hahahhaa.

 

Other

 

+ Has no stock grind but it does not matter because this tank is worse in top configuration than many stock tanks anyway.

- Stock turret has absolutely awful view range (350) and top turret is not impressive either (370).

- 120 mm gun costs like 47k XP and is not necessary for the tier 9. Which is the shame, because it is (IMO) the best gun out of the 3.

- The tier 9 costs like 150k XP. Might as well rename "World Of Tanks" into "Murazor's torture simulator 2017" whenever you play this tank.

- Its so insanely stupid, ugly, stupid, ugly and so awful looking tank. Like if not being this useless wasn't bad enough, why the f*ck it needs to be so insanely ugly as well. If it was at least somewhat pleasing to look at your eyes, it would make the grind better, but instead you need to look at this completely idiotic deformed abomination that has great risks of damaging your brain if you watch it. I MEAN, LOOK AT IT:

 

Spoiler

 

No wonder why this ugly windowlicking POS never got past blueprint stage. 

 

Its so f*cking ugly. Very very bad.

 

Equipment

 

Rammer + Vstabs + vents, if it even makes any difference. There are other options as well, however. If you use the stock turret and 100 mm, the GLD is a viable choice because 3.2 sec aim time for 300 alpha gun is absolutely godawful. If you use the top turret and have very good crew, Optics could be helpful as I think it is at least close to hit the max view range with that setup.

 

Which configuration to use?

 

Now your question and confusion about the stock turret and top turret will be answered. The stock turret is a viable option, yes. Just like the infamous Defender slayer, aka the TVP VTU.

 

Top turret has...

 

  • +100 HP
  • +20m view range
  • option to use the 120 mm
  • stronger cupolas, though irrelevant unless against sub-180 pen
  • better DPM and faster aim time with 90 mm and 100 mm

 

Stock turret has...

 

  • 2 degrees more depression
  • much better elevation
  • twice as small size
  • only one cupola that is way smaller
  • better armor
  • is not as awfully ugly though that small, narrow turret on this obese fat hull still looks hideous

 

Stock turret > top turret as turret. However, the stock turret cannot mount the 120 mm gun. The 120 mm gun has alpha damage, which suits this platform the best. More alpha - less exposure. The 65t has no armor, is huge and slow, so exposing yourself as little as possible is good. The problem just is that the 120 mm costs additional 47k XP, so it makes the grind just longer. Because of that, I would recommend not researching the 120 mm gun. Stock turret + 90 mm or 100 mm is way to go, unless your for some reason going for the 120 mm gun, use 120 mm + top turret.

 

How to actually play it

 

Thats a f*cking good question and unfortunately I have no good answer for that. It doesn't have armor to be a heavy. It doesnt have a mobility to be a medium. It has neither to be a heavium (aka "bulky" medium or fast fragile heavy). It has too bad guns to be a TD. Basically, your only hope is to be a stupid support tank that does not support properly anyway. If you use the 120 mm, I recommend using as much gold as possible so you can at least penetrate your targets. The DPM is poor, accuracy is poor and gun handling is awful, so you want to make your shots count. With 120 mm, just have a cover, and try to outtrade tanks with your alpha.

 

With the stock turret you can poke ridges very effectively and show your turret armor. Dont rely on it, because the cupola has no armor basically. Avoid fighting heavies, you just have no capability for that. Either try to somehow snipe or just follow mediums and be like a depressed, fat vulture with wings cut off, following a pack of hyenas and getting basically nothing in return.

 

You stay 2nd line no matter what combo you use. You have absolutely no capabilities to play offensively because of the bad DPM, poor mobility and useless massive hull. Later on you can just trade your HP and try to do damage. Ram if possible, this tank is actually a good rammer though I almost never got a good ram off because obvious reasons.

 

Overall verdict about the tank

 

Okay. Let me show how absolutely terrible this tank actually is. Yes, my stats are not that impressive, but thats not the point.

 

This is my stats with several tier 8 HTs:

 

Spoiler

 

This is my stats with the AMX M4 45, a tank that is commonly trashed for being horrible and said to be one of the worst tier 7 HTs in the game:

 

Spoiler

 

And here is my stats with the O-I, a tier 6 heavy tankYes, it admitely is bit too good, but still, its just tier 6.

 

Spoiler

 

And here is the "tier 8" "heavy", AMX 65t:

 

Spoiler

 

Yes. My DPG is lower than supposedly terrible tank tier below it, and barely higher than a tank two tiers below itAnd basically 350 - 700 lower than any other tier 8 HT I have. Absolutely f*cking incredible job.

 

I don't know how they remotely thought this would be even remotely balanced. This tank is so horrible. This tank is literally so absolutely awful piece of trash. I cannot believe how they even made this. No made they thought this would be actually decent. This must be an intentional free XP pit. Its the most obvious free XP pit they have ever done.

 

AMX 65t is the worst tier 8 I have ever played and by a long shot. And yes, I have played tanks like Tiger II and TVP VTU in the past. The rating I am giving it is alarmingly low and I wouldn't give such numbers to very many tanks in the game. It is combination of awful armor, bad mobility and mediocre guns put together. To put it to perspective, 1/10 is something like unbuffed Type 95 Heavy or M5 Stuart right after they took away its derp gun while it still could meet tier 8s. Basically practically unplayable tanks. However those are lowtiers. 65t is a hightier vehicle.

 

The AMX 65t was an absolutely soulcrushingly depressing experience. Its so f*cking stupid, ugly, trash and useless that nobody loves it - not even it's mother could love it. No, it's mother could literally enjoy if her son (aka this) was being tortured into death, no matter how hard it would cry. And so would I. And so would you. Just admit it. ABSOLUTELY NOBODY LOVES THIS USELESS PIECE OF TRASH.

 

Overall rating: 2.5/10 (extremely bad)

 

---------------------------------

 

But don't worry, there is light in the end of tunnel, and I am not lying...

 

---------------------------------

 

AMX M4 51 (tier IX)

 

The AMX 65t is an useless piece of horsepooptrash. It is a long grind and it has nothing going for it. It is absolutely terrible. You probably have a depression and all kind of other thingies that affects your mental health negatively.

 

If you haven't suicided yet and are still reading this, I have legitimately great news for you - the AMX M4 "Emily" 51 is actually legitimately a f*cking amazing tank. From the worst tier 8 in the entire game you have a tank that competes to be one of the best tier 9s in a tier filled with competitive tanks.

 

Protection

 

+ Overall frontal armor is ~235 - 260 effective all around. Practically 100 mm better than the AMX 65t. Basically the frontal armor is not that much worse than the one on the Type 4 Heavy.

+ The LFP armor is pretty tough, which can catch people off guard as they might be used on cheese lower plate armor of the Conqueror.

+ Excellent turret armor for the tier. Might get BS penned by some APCR gold rounds but other than that, you can expect it to bounce a lot of shells.

+ Above average HP pool (1900).

Module damage is not even close as bad as the AMX 65t.

- Side armor is complete trash (60 mm). Hull cheeks become very weak when you angle the tank even quite a little amount so it basically cannot sidescrape.

The cupolas are small but quite weak; expect tier 8s be able to pen them (IF they hit those though)

Side profile is massive and camo is horrible.

LFP is strong but pennable fairly easily if your not careful, dont rely on it unless VS lowtiers. Your not exactly a Liberte, even though it seems like so.

Mantlet may get BS penned by +300 penetration AP/APCR rounds. Extra carefulness is needed VS tier 10 TDs.

 

Overall protection: good.

 

The frontal protection is great and an gigantic improvement over the AMX 65t. Just put it on the perspective - the AMX M4 51's frontal armor is arguably better against same tier HTs as the AMX 65t's hull armor is against tier 6s. And the HP pool is fairly good, meaning that you can trade shots even when the armor does not work.

 

However, the protection is not flawless. It is still massive just like the 65t, in fact, its even bigger than it. The camo is absolutely atrocious, almost super-heavy levels of bad. The side armor is completely horrible - Japanese HTs and 183s will screw you over very hard if they get your side. Arty is also a nuisance for this tank.

 

Firepower

 

+ Choice of actually good guns.

+ Decent gun depression (-8)

+ 120 mm gun has among the best DPM in its tier.

+ 120 mm has amazing aim time, turret dispersion and accuracy.

+ 120 mm has above average penetration and shell velocity.

+ 127 mm has high alpha damage and good DPM for that alpha.

+ 127 mm has moderately good accuracy and gun handling for that alpha.

+ 127 mm is capable of overmatching Swedish TDs.

The movement dispersion is not great, so it cannot really snapshot on move very effectively.

127 mm has very poor penetration, worst in class, also rather lackluster shell velocity

 

Overall firepower: excellent.

 

The firepower is close to be best in class. 120 mm's firepower is practically flawless - it has accuracy, gun handling, DPM, shell velocity and penetration among the best on the tier. Literally only "downside" about it is the "bad" bloom on movement, but outside from snapping on full speed, its irrelevant. Basically, it is very similar to the Conqueror's gun - it has more DPM but bit worse movement dispersion. The 127 mm gun does have very poor penetration and its handling is not as good as the 120 mm. I did not use this gun, solely due to additional 57k XP cost and I wanted to go straight for the tier 10. While the alpha rocks in this game and something to screw over those pesky Swedish TDs is always good, the 470 alpha is not that big of an upgrade over 400 to sacrifice the amazing accuracy, pen and gun handling. The 127 mm is still a good gun, though.

 

Mobility:

 

+ Fairly solid top speed (40).

+ Is not f*cked over by terrain resists so the good power to weight ratio is actually relevant. It goes 40 reliably.

+ Agile for a heavy. Not that easy to circle.

+ Good mass + speed makes it a fantastic ramming machine. 

The terrain resists are still sub-par.

While good, the top speed is still limiting VS mediums and heaviums.

 

Overall mobility: good.

 

It has worse HP/ton than the 65t yet it is much more mobile than it. That just says how badly the terrain resists can screw the paper stats over. The M4 51 accelerates quickly and is nimble. It can actually reach the 40 kph and keep it up. The tank is just mobile enough to go to bully medium tanks, even if it cannot consistently to keep up with them. The maneuverability is also good enough to make the tank actually pretty tough to circle, even by light tanks.

 

Other

 

+ Extremely easy stock grind. Gets the 120 mm right away, and doesnt need tracks to mount the top turret. The engines are also shared with the tier 8.

+ The tier 9 requires a little amount of XP to research, so the grind is likely going to be faster for most of us than the tier 8 is (and far, far more enjoyable).

-  View range is worse than most tier 9 HTs (380), tho workable.

 

 

Equipment

 

Rammer + Vertical Stabilizers + Optics.

 

I wouldnt go for the Vents. The view range is too low for it - even with all view range skills and food, you still won't reach max view range if you use vents.

 

 

Which gun to use?

 

120 mm, IMO. 

 

Already explained it briefly, but the 120 mm's combo of...everything is too good to pass. The 127 mm has problems with penetrations - 270 mm gold pen makes you look like a joke VS overly rich Godzilla with diabetes Type 5 Heavy and makes you struggle against many armored things. The gun handling and accuracy are still nice on the 127 mm, but not like on the 120 mm. Then again, it has better ability to fight Swedish TDs and it can outtrade things better. The 127 is not bad though - I got screwed once when I fought an another M4 51 that had 127 mm because I underestimated that the gun had actually still a very nice reload for that alpha. I think it is still a good gun, but 120 mm is generally just more versatile. 

 

How to play it

 

Lets just begin with fairly simple tips with the tank. First of all - try to engage tanks at only one direction. The sides are weak and massive, so you really do not wanna get caught on situation where tanks can shoot you on multiple directions. Dont sit still, because the tank does have cupola weakspots. Dont overly rely on the LFP armor, even tho it can be really bouncy. Angle the front from corners by ~15 degrees AT most, never ever sidescrape. Try to face the turret on only one direction, because the turret sides are massive and weak.

 

The playstyle itself does not even need any specifications - the tank can do almost everything. It is that flexible. It can brawl at frontline if you have enough HP. You show your front, bounce things, and use your (most likely) superior firepower to overwhelm them. Even if armor does not work, you got HP to trade with. In this scenario, the 127 mm gun can be even stronger than the 120 mm. If you lose your HP, just move to 2nd line, and support your team. In a bad situation you can change the flank. The can even snipe if needed!

 

In 1 v 1 scenario, this tank is powerful. It is hard to circle, it has high HP, strong frontal armor, reliable good with good DPM and strong ramming capabilities. You can ram almost everything except super-heavies - you can expect meaty 300-500 damage rams at mediums and LTs! My strongest ram was almost 700 damage on a Skorpion G. However, try to avoid being alone, because versus two mobile tanks, the AMX is screwed - it has very poor side armor. It definitely has capacity to brawl heavies, but if possible, go to "medium flanks" and push. You can bully mediums very well, due to your superior health, armor and ability to ram. 

 

It has capability to hulldown, but it is not the best at doing that. -8 is not -10, the turret is strong but the mantlet may get penned by high pen AP/APCR, and the tank has cupolas. Never rely on the turret armor by sitting still, just poke.

 

Basically, the tank can flex itself into almost every situation, which is why it is such a powerful tank.

 

Overall verdict about the tank

 

After the most useless ugly trash ever that had no armor, no mobility and whole variety of shitty guns, you get this thing. Basically it has everything. It is fast. It has armor. And it has TWO good guns with one of them being contender for the best gun of all the tier 9 HTs. And it even has hitpoints. And it is not eyecancer ugly like the tier 9.

 

To show you how a big improvement this over the tier 8...

 

Spoiler

 

DPG goes up by 1150 with one tier compared to the AMX 65t. This makes it my best performing tier 9 I have ever played. And keep on mind that in the end I got a streak of trash games - my DPG was around 2650 at like ~60 battles, so I would certainly have even better results with it.

 

It is a lovely tank, it was a pleasure to play. It doesn't have that many glaring flaws outside from the side armor and side profile. It is able to do multitude of roles very well which makes it a really flexible and powerful tank in its tier. It has great armor with good mobility and among the best firepower in its tier. That makes the tank probably too good even, I would say it might need a slight taming (only slight, like 100 lower DPM or so), but I dont know. Time will tell.

 

I definitely would have kept this one, but the only reason why I didn't was the lack of crew. If I get a good crew for it, though, I will definitely rebuy it. My 8k dmg replay, for those who are interestedhttp://wotreplays.eu/site/4008269#paris-leggasiini-amx_m4_mle_51

 

So basically, after one of the worst tier 8s in the game, you have one of the strongest tier 9s in the game, which is a tier full of competitive tanks. The whole package is just great, which is why:

 

Overall rating: 9 / 10 (excellent)

 

If it had ability to sidescrape and -10 depression and perhaps a bit higher top speed, it would be practically perfect.

 

---------------------------------

 

 

Tier 8 that competes for being the most useless trash in the tier...tier 9 that is among the strongest tanks in the tier that is filled with powerful competitive tanks...What a line! And now for the top of the bunch...how it is going to be?

 

---------------------------------

 

 

AMX M4 54 (tier X)

 

The tier 10, the AMX M4 "Emily" 54, continues typical tradition of the tier 10 being very similar as the tier 9 in many ways. And...that how it feels like, at first. But it gets an unique tool on its arsenal that the tier 9 does not have - the 130 mm gun. Sadly, it otherwise feels a lot like the tier 9 but tier higher so it isn't as good as the tier 9 tier-for-tier, certainly not. But it is terrible?

 

Protection

 

+ The UFP armor improves quite a lot from the tier 9, from ~260 effective (against AP) to as high as +300. Against HEAT and APCR, it's even more, so the UFP can actually bounce even premium shells.

The turret armor is still rather thick and strong at front.

Just like the tier 9, the module damage is not super bad, unless you take hits from arty.

The LFP as whole is still quite bouncy, especially when the tank is angled slightly down.

Upper part of the LFP is rather tough and resistant to standard rounds, can catch opponents off-guard.

- For being such a large target, the HP pool is low (2200).

Side armor is complete trash (60 mm). Hull cheeks become very weak when you angle the tank even quite a little amount so it basically cannot sidescrape.

The cupolas are small but quite weak; expect tier 8s be able to pen them (IF they hit those though)

Side profile is massive and camo is horrible.

Mantlet may get BS penned by +300 penetration AP/APCR rounds. Extra carefulness is needed VS tier 10 TDs.

LFP is strong but pennable fairly easily if your not careful, don't rely on it unless VS lowtiers. It is also a bigger target than on the tier 9, though the upper part of it is thicker and resistant to standard rounds.

 

Overall protection: average.

 

The protection depends on situation. On most scenarios it is overall bit below average, as the tank has poor HP pool combined with gigantic size and terrible side armor. You can die rather quickly if you are not careful and get caught out in open. However, in a perfect scenario, the tank can be quite hard to kill and it can block a lot of damage. 
 

Firepower

 

+ Choice of two guns.

+ Decent gun depression (-8).

+ The 120 mm gun has the highest AP pen of all heavies in the game.

+ The 120 mm gun has an amazing gun handling and accuracy, 2nd best after the Brits when it comes to HTs.

+ 130 mm gun has very high alpha damage (560), making the Mle. 54 the hardest hitting non-super heavy HT in the game.

+ 130 mm gun has good accuracy and gun handling for high amount of alpha damage.

+ 130 mm gun is capable of overmatching Swedish TDs.

120 mm gun has below-average alpha damage.

120 mm gun has terrible DPM for that alpha damage. To put it into perspective, it has lower DPM than the E 100 despite the fact the E 100 has nearly twice as good alpha damage. This greatly hampers the usability of the 120 mm gun.

130 mm has absolutely god awful premium penetration, worst in the entire tier if LTs and HE shells are not counted.

130 mm has poor DPM.

130 mm has poor HE shells; 640, which means that they are actually not better than in 490 alpha 127 / 130 mm guns.

 

Overall firepower: good.

 

The both guns are quite unique. 120 mm has high base pen and great accuracy + handling. 130 mm gun has unusual combination of high alpha damage and accuracy + gun handling. Both guns suffer from bad DPM, though.

 

And 130 mm gun looks hilarious, it's like a...tube...or a giant candy cane :trollface:

 

Spoiler

 

Mobility:

 

+ Fairly solid top speed (40).

+ Hits the top speed fairly reliably.

+ Agile for a heavy. Not that easy to circle. Turret traverses very quickly, considering how big it is.

+ Good mass + speed makes it a fantastic ramming machine. 

The terrain resists are somewhat poor.

While good, the top speed is still limiting VS mediums and heaviums.

 

Overall mobility: good.

 

Mobility is very similar to the AMX M4 51, except the fact the turret turns a bit faster. Basically, the mobility is good enough to flex around and relocate.

 

Other

 

-  Lower view range than average.

-  Cannot mount 130 mm from the start.

 

Equipment

 

Rammer + Vertical Stabilizers + Vents / Optics.

 

The view range is still sub-par and it fails to reach max view range with vents, if you don't use food. I would recommend using the equipment depending on if you use foods or not - if you use food = vents, if you don't use food = optics. Keep on mind that the tank rarely burns (only once in 70 battles), so if you just can afford it, I recommend running food, because it helps with the poor DPM of the tank.

 

 

Which gun to use?

 

130 mm gun, not the 120 mm.

 

Yes, the 130 mm is definitely a way to go. The 280 mm gold AP is awful and can be big turnoff pretty quick. However, it is much less tragic than it seems, because the tank has mobility, gun handling and accuracy to play around it. Knowing where to aim is necessary. The 120 mm's combination of 400 alpha with extremely bad DPM, being worse than the E 100 is a way bigger problem. It simply does not work on a big platform with low HP that does not have potential to hold places for long (as an example, the Löwe has a very similar gun, but it has a platform way better suited for such gun) - with that configuration, it is especially awful at trading and thus makes it terrible at brawling. It is very good at sniping, but racks up damage slowly, and is outclassed by mediums and still worse at it than the Super Conqueror. Heck, the T110E5 is better than the AMX M4 54 with 120 mm gun. So if you use the 120 mm gun - you have a shitty version of a tank (E5) that is already a shitty version of certain other tank (S. Conq). The 130 mm gun has a niche - 560 alpha. That is higher than the 490 alpha of the 5A and IS-7, making the M4 54 the hardest hitting heavy in the game that isn't a super-heavy (or something that carries a derp). 

 

 

How to play it

 

With 120 mm gun, plays basically same as the M4 51, except with much worse brawling and trading capabilities, thus making it massively less effective. The 130 mm gun however makes the tank play differently. It makes it a mobile-close-range-support-shot-gun HT, which I can say...is pretty damn unique.

 

Firstly, you want to know your targets and where to penetrate them. The penetration is low, and gold penetration is godawful - you cant just aim at center mass and penetrate even with premium ammo. Fortunately, your accuracy is good (0.35), so you can hit the weakspots when aimed. Don't rely on armor too much. In fact, unless you hulldown VS tanks that has no option for +300 pen AP/APCR or bully a lowtier with 240 pen or less, I wouldn't rely on it at all. The HP pool is rather low and you really need it to use the tank's great strength - trading ability. Generally, you want to have a corner to go to cover, because the DPM is poor. If something with high DPM rushes you, you might be in problems because the tank has combination of low HP pool and poor DPM. Just avoid being alone, the tank is awfully vulnerable to flanking due to terrible side armor and like already mentioned, the DPM and HP pool are poor. Don't go to too open places, because this tank is massive and arty loves it. 

 

You poke corners, don't expose your side armor, and you blap your opponent for 560 damage. Having a more fatass HT to support is a good thing to have. Trading medium tanks is also rather effective because not only you have much higher alpha than them but you also have no problems at penetrating them. This tank can be really menacing VS lowtiers, as 560 alpha does more than 1/3 of their HP worthy of damage, and the armor can hold up against lowtiers really well, as long as you expose your front. Basically, you can decide whether you want to go with mediums or support your heavies. Both are possible.

 

You generally want to look at team list when playing this tank and that determines where to go. If the enemy team has a Type 5 Heavy, try to avoid it at all costs, especially if it has support, because it is ultra-hard counter to this tank. Other than the Type 5, most tanks are quite manageable with gold AP; even Maus is semi-easily pennable from turret when it doesn't angle it. The good accuracy is really handy on that.

 

It is actually capable of sniping even with the 130 mm gun when necessary, thanks to the 0.35 base accuracy. However, do this only when it is necessary, the tank is not really a dedicated sniper.

 

All in all, the playstyle makes the tank like a twisted version of the AMX M4 51. It is harder to play effectively than it, but when pulled off, it can be quite a big enjoyment.

 

 

Overall verdict about the tank

 

When people started getting this tank, I kept hearing simple opinion: "trash", which obviously made me feel somewhat uncomfortable as I was still playing the tier 9. When I got it and played it with the 120 mm gun, I quickly agreed with them. The tank felt just powerless and did not feel like an upgrade at all. Basically, it was tier 9 with +300 HP and better UFP strapped an entire tier higher, and that "higher tier" is a massively more violent tier than the tier where the AMX M4 51 was. My DPG was lower than the AMX M4 51 for the first 20 battles during the period I used the 120 mm gun (in reality, it was actually more like 2.4k, because it was inflated by my very lucky ace game with 7.6k damage done; yea, funnily enough, I aced this tank with the 120 mm gun while grinding to the 130 mm, however did otherwise MUCH worse).

 

But then I got the 130 mm gun, despite people said that "it has 280 gold pen, its not usable", and magically I started to enjoy the tank much more and my DPG jumped from mere 2.5k to 3.1k, which is still fairly good to my level (same as my IS-7).

 

Dem stets:

 

Spoiler

 

So, is it "trash"? Not really. Is it great? Certainly not.

 

But...is it fun?

 

Yes!

 

The 560 alpha on mobile platform makes it unique and makes it a pleasure to play. It can be frustrating at times because of the poor penetration, but it is satisfying to hit tanks for 560 with rather reliable gun stats on a tank that is rather mobile. It is fun and very unique, there isn't really any other tank at tier 10 with similar playstyle. Think a giant Revalorise that trades a bit of gun depression and amazing shell velocity for a fairly good frontal armor and ability to not see higher tier tanks.

 

If the tank only came 1 year ago with powerlevel being much lower and tanks having overall way worse armor... it would have been actually a pretty good vehicle. If only. Shame, it came too late. But I am personally happy with it.

 

Overall rating: 6.5 / 10 (average)

 

It is not super competitive so if your looking something like that, stay at tier 9. However, if you want to try something unique, go for the M4 54. The fun-ratio (for me) is certainly higher than "6.5". At least its not a Kranvagn or IS-4.

 

-------------------

 

TL;DR: tier 8 is utterly useless trash, tier 9 is utterly amazing, tier 10 is not even close as good as the tier 9 tier-for-tier, but its unique and fun. You can stop at tier 9, its a fantastic tank and worth the ridiculously awful tier 8 grind. You can try the tier 10 and see if you like it (with the 130 mm gun, don't use the 120 mm), but I suggest to keep the tier 9 regardless.

 

-------------------

 

Thank you for reading this!

 

~leggasiini


Edited by leggasiini, 22 December 2017 - 08:09 PM.


leggasiini #2 Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:24 PM

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Reserved for future use, just in the case.

Balc0ra #3 Posted 15 December 2017 - 11:31 PM

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Tier 8 is crap. Nothing to it. Even with the top engine etc it was as bad. I even went back to the stock turret as it bounced more hull down. Circon loved the tier 9. But if it's even half as good as the tier 8, I'll be happy.

leggasiini #4 Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:24 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 16 December 2017 - 12:31 AM, said:

Tier 8 is crap. Nothing to it. Even with the top engine etc it was as bad. I even went back to the stock turret as it bounced more hull down. Circon loved the tier 9. But if it's even half as good as the tier 8, I'll be happy.

 

Tier 9 is amazing so far. While the tier 8 has no armor, mobility or firepower, the tier 9 has all of them. Its like a Conqueror with less depression and less useful side armor but much, much stronger LFP and better mobility. And Conqueror is already really good.

 

I can say that it's worth suffering the godawful tier 8.



ZlatanArKung #5 Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:28 AM

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View Postleggasiini, on 15 December 2017 - 11:24 PM, said:

Reserved for future use, just in the case.

You have pretty much same avg damage in the 65t as I have in Rudy, the T6 tank.

The 65t must truly be terribly bad.


Edited by ZlatanArKung, 16 December 2017 - 11:28 AM.


leggasiini #6 Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:40 AM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 16 December 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

You have pretty much same avg damage in the 65t as I have in Rudy, the T6 tank.

The 65t must truly be terribly bad.

 

Just like I have higher DPG with majority of tier 7s and even some of my tier 6s are not much lower.

 

The tank is indeed absolutely godawful.



_EXODUZ_ #7 Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:52 AM

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I enjoyed reading this review.:great:

NUKLEAR_SLUG #8 Posted 16 December 2017 - 12:32 PM

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Good detailed review. Gave you a like because I couldn't give you five.

malachi6 #9 Posted 16 December 2017 - 02:31 PM

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Tier 8 is just odd.  First turret gives best depression.  Second gun is more useful.  Seems like they put a free XP tank in at tier 8.  Trouble is, I have to grind it as I used my free on the iffy Japanese TD line.

leggasiini #10 Posted 16 December 2017 - 02:48 PM

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View Postmalachi6, on 16 December 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

Trouble is, I have to grind it as I used my free on the iffy Japanese TD line.

If only Japanese TD line was in the game... :hiding:



ortega456 #11 Posted 16 December 2017 - 03:23 PM

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Very good and entertaining description. Couldn't add a thing. Even the suggested playstyle is exactly what I do with it and even managed to get some good games and an 1.450 base xp Ace-Tanker game. Still 110k xp to go :-/

 

 

Btw. This is one of the few times where I actually think WG implemented some kind of free xp sink to force players to buy gold for free xp...bad move and hell of a frustration.


Edited by ortega456, 16 December 2017 - 03:31 PM.


leggasiini #12 Posted 16 December 2017 - 10:55 PM

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Quick update: only 70k needed for the tier 10. Tier 9 review coming tomorrow!

 

It probably will take a few days for me to buy the tier 10, as I kinda want to get the level 10 on the Christmas thingy so I can get a nice discount on it. But I'll do that as soon as I can. Tier 10 will be reviewed after I have played roughly ~50-70 battles with both guns.


Edited by leggasiini, 16 December 2017 - 10:57 PM.


_Bundesheer_ #13 Posted 16 December 2017 - 11:32 PM

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Everyone grinding that tier 8 tard deserves a special medal.

Isharial #14 Posted 17 December 2017 - 01:21 AM

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its quite sad that the 65t is THIS bad... but it is :amazed:

 

so far I don't like it, 25 top speed no matter what and it seems to go up steep hills faster in reverse....


 

its pretty bad..


 

honestly considering (for the first time) to actually free xp this tank and save myself the torture of playing it... the T9 and T10 I know are worth it in the end



HundeWurst #15 Posted 17 December 2017 - 02:17 AM

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From what I have seen in SirFochs stream the tier 9 is gonna heal all the wounds you got from driven the tier 8. Without food and no gold ammo he currently averages 4k damage and has ~85% winrate after 40 battles.

 

Seems like the tier 9 new heavy is better then quit some of the old tier 10 heavies. It appears that its just flat out better than the T110E5 even though its a whole tier lower.

Balance is hard DADADADA?

 

Then again it might actually be a tank which requires a bit of skill since you need to position yourself properly due to the useless sidearmor. However anyone with 2 working braincells rubbing them together most likely will do good in that tier 9.

 

Im gonna try it out tomorrow if I can be asked to start the game.



250swb #16 Posted 17 December 2017 - 09:50 AM

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Are we beginning to see a trend in the new tech trees? Pretty much lacklustre tier VII and VIII tanks leaving the way open for a 'better' tier VIII premium being sold to ease the pain? In reality a lot of the older tech trees go into a slump around tier VII and only come alive again at tier IX. But certainly the trend for placing a 'better' Premium tank in the game at tier VIII begins to look even more like a defined commercial strategy rather than simply making tier VIII harder. The new Chinese TD line is a case in point, poor tier VII and VIII with a better premium on sale to fill the gap. The revised French TD line, comes alive again at tier IX but a better premium on sale for tier VIII. And I think we already know there is a Premium tier VIII French heavy tank in supertest...........

Edited by 250swb, 17 December 2017 - 09:51 AM.


AngelofAwe #17 Posted 17 December 2017 - 10:24 AM

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The T8 is so terrible that I switched between the stock and top turret configuration at least 5-6 times during the grind because you keep thinking "there's no way it was this bad in the other configuration". Then a couple games later "nope... there's no way it was this bad in the previous config". 

Play with stock turret + 100mm -> can't connect a shot on anything whatsoever -> switch to top turret and 120mm -> take 5 hits in the cupola and die in 3 minutes having dealt 800 dmg -> switch back to stock turret + 100mm -> repeat. 

Edited by AngelofAwe, 17 December 2017 - 10:27 AM.


The_Georgian_One #18 Posted 17 December 2017 - 11:32 AM

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Re-bought M4-45 on a discount, collected necessary XP for tier 8, sold M4-45 and bought AMX 50-120 I had unlocked earlier. After reading this I'll stick with heavy autoloaders,thank you.

Edited by The_Georgian_One, 17 December 2017 - 11:33 AM.


Kolmiopaavo #19 Posted 17 December 2017 - 11:42 AM

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The tier 9 M4 is actually really good, might even be the best heavy for its tier. However the tier 10 one is just utter garbage, its not really an upgrade over the tier 9 in any way. S.Conq has like 2 rounds per minute better rate of fire with the 120 mm gun.



Teravius #20 Posted 17 December 2017 - 08:53 PM

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View PostKolmiopaavo, on 17 December 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

The tier 9 M4 is actually really good, might even be the best heavy for its tier. However the tier 10 one is just utter garbage, its not really an upgrade over the tier 9 in any way. S.Conq has like 2 rounds per minute better rate of fire with the 120 mm gun.

 

So play Super Conqueror if you need 120 mm gun, this tank is unique with its 130 and should be played that way. Its like why to even grind this for 120mm? that one is not to be taken seriously.




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