Jump to content


2018 Russian tech tree rework - what about the IS-4?


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

Uebergewicht #1 Posted 25 December 2017 - 11:14 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 11702 battles
  • 1,061
  • Member since:
    11-15-2015

So, WG made a big deal out of their planned changes for the Russian tech tree in 2018. Besides restructuring many existing trees (including, apparently, the Object 263, even though they said this change was cancelled a few weeks ago), they´re also adding various new heavy tanks to the tree - two lines at once - which seemed to come out of nowehere, at least for me. But while Wargaming is busy adding all these new tanks and messing up existing lines, I cannot help but wonder - what about the IS-4 line? Wargaming occasionally talked about a rework, dating back several months if not over a year. While no details were given, it seemed as if switiching the ST-1 and the IS-4 was discussed, or even adding a double barreled ST-2 tank. But, even though a big patch focussing on the Russian tree is on the horizon now, there is not the slightest hint about the fate of the IS-4 line. Wargaming even stated they´re "almost done" balancing tiers 8-10, but how come the IS-4 line hasnt been touched at all so far?

 

 

Looking at the higher tiers, we have:

 

- The KV-4, a super-heavy with thick armor, but various vulnerabilities that is slow, blind and has an average gun. Since the introduction of the Maus line it has been heavily powercrept by the VK-100, an all around much tougher tank with less vulnerabilities and more firepower, as well as Premiums such as the Defender, which brings firepower and ridiculous armor on a smaller and faster platform or even the newest Mauerbrecher, which at least has weakspots, but packs a lot more punch.

 

- The ST-1, which is still a decent tank, but suffers probably the most from bad gun handling. While not bad, more recent changes seem to push it back on the tier 9 power list, as the Mäuschen and Type 4 are now the big guys with big guns, and the recently introduced tier 9 French heavy with supreme frontal armor and firepower.

 

- The IS-4, which is arguably the weakest tier 10 heavy tank right now. While not outright horrible, it is overshadowd by the other tanks in tier since the Maus and Type 5 leapfrogged it with recent buffs and the IS-7 at least overtook it with added mobility and gun handling and comparable HP pools. The IS-4 is kinda sluggish, has decent all-around armor but is very vulnerable to gold rounds, has a turret weakspot, limited gun depression and an unremarkable gun with average alpha and poor handling. It doesnt really have a niche it shines in, but also disappoints as a jack off all trades. It´s just not an attractive tank, especially not after the ST-1, which at least brought some gun depression to the line.

 

 

So, Wargaming, what´s the status? Can you at least tell us if there are still current plans for this line? And how come you´re pumping out two new Soviet heavy lines seemlingly from nowhere, while this old line is in dire need of attention for months? What happened to all the plans you mentioned long ago? Some kind of heads up would really be apreciated.


Edited by Uebergewicht, 25 December 2017 - 11:25 AM.


Grand_Moff_Tano #2 Posted 25 December 2017 - 11:15 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 1762 battles
  • 10,716
  • [BC28] BC28
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011
Not sure but I heard a rumour a while go that it will be replaced with the ST-II, a Twin cannon version of the ST-I. Though if such a replacement is planned then it hasn't been mentioned, meaning it won't be in 2018.

Edited by Chipmunk_of_Vengeance, 25 December 2017 - 11:16 AM.


Balc0ra #3 Posted 25 December 2017 - 11:20 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 66235 battles
  • 16,231
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012
As pr usual... if such a change occurs, we will be told about it when they do plan for it in a patch. Just like the 183, just like the 155 etc. As I'm sure WG don't know when or where to do it them self yet. Or even if. As I suspect the status of the replacement tier X needs to be tested more for even them to confirm it.

undutchable80 #4 Posted 25 December 2017 - 11:40 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 7232 battles
  • 1,721
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    10-30-2014
How to fixed WG: moar Rassia tonks

Grand_Moff_Tano #5 Posted 25 December 2017 - 11:42 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 1762 battles
  • 10,716
  • [BC28] BC28
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011

WG can keep their Russian Tonks :D



jack_timber #6 Posted 25 December 2017 - 11:48 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 33432 battles
  • 2,069
  • Member since:
    07-26-2014

View PostChipmunk_of_Vengeance, on 25 December 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

WG can keep their Russian Tonks :D

 

Nicely sloped hull, 200mm plasma gun, 1000mm pen, laser accuracy, DPM of 1 gazillion.

Coming to the premium shop soon.....



Dava_117 #7 Posted 25 December 2017 - 11:55 AM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 19413 battles
  • 3,271
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014

View PostUebergewicht, on 25 December 2017 - 11:14 AM, said:

So, WG made a big deal out of their planned changes for the Russian tech tree in 2018. Besides restructuring many existing trees (including, apparently, the Object 263, even though they said this change was cancelled a few weeks ago), they´re also adding various new heavy tanks to the tree - two lines at once - which seemed to come out of nowehere, at least for me. But while Wargaming is busy adding all these new tanks and messing up existing lines, I cannot help but wonder - what about the IS-4 line? Wargaming occasionally talked about a rework, dating back several months if not over a year. While no details were given, it seemed as if switiching the ST-1 and the IS-4 was discussed, or even adding a double barreled ST-2 tank. But, even though a big patch focussing on the Russian tree is on the horizon now, there is not the slightest hint about the fate of the IS-4 line. Wargaming even stated they´re "almost done" balancing tiers 8-10, but how come the IS-4 line hasnt been touched at all so far?

 

 

Looking at the higher tiers, we have:

 

- The KV-4, a super-heavy with thick armor, but various vulnerabilities that is slow, blind and has an average gun. Since the introduction of the Maus line it has been heavily powercrept by the VK-100, an all around much tougher tank with less vulnerabilities and more firepower, as well as Premiums such as the Defender, which brings firepower and ridiculous armor on a smaller and faster platform or even the newest Mauerbrecher, which at least has weakspots, but packs a lot more punch.

 

- The ST-1, which is still a decent tank, but suffers probably the most from bad gun handling. While not bad, more recent changes seem to push it back on the tier 9 power list, as the Mäuschen and Type 4 are now the big guys with big guns, and the recently introduced tier 9 French heavy with supreme frontal armor and firepower.

 

- The IS-4, which is arguably the weakest tier 10 heavy tank right now. While not outright horrible, it is overshadowd by the other tanks in tier since the Maus and Type 5 leapfrogged it with recent buffs and the IS-7 at least overtook it with added mobility and gun handling and comparable HP pools. The IS-4 is kinda sluggish, has decent all-around armor but is very vulnerable to gold rounds, has a turret weakspot, limited gun depression and an unremarkable gun with average alpha and poor handling. It doesnt really have a niche it shines in, but also disappoints as a jack off all trades. It´s just not an attractive tank, especially not after the ST-1, which at least brought some gun depression to the line.

 

 

So, Wargaming, what´s the status? Can you at least tell us if there are still current plans for this line? And how come you´re pumping out two new Soviet heavy lines seemlingly from nowhere, while this old line is in dire need of attention for months? What happened to all the plans you mentioned long ago? Some kind of heads up would really be apreciated.

 

I was wandering the same. This summer they announced the rework as imminent, as it was planned just after UK med and HT rework, but now looks like they never talked about it...

Grand_Moff_Tano #8 Posted 25 December 2017 - 12:00 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 1762 battles
  • 10,716
  • [BC28] BC28
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011

View Postjack_timber, on 25 December 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

 

Nicely sloped hull, 200mm plasma gun, 1000mm pen, laser accuracy, DPM of 1 gazillion.

Coming to the premium shop soon.....

 

Twin-Barrel Ballistic Cannon, 40 rounds with ROF of around 50 per minute  :D

Edited by Chipmunk_of_Vengeance, 25 December 2017 - 12:00 PM.


Gkirmathal #9 Posted 25 December 2017 - 01:08 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 8125 battles
  • 1,509
  • Member since:
    01-14-2013

View PostUebergewicht, on 25 December 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

 

So, Wargaming, what´s the status?

 

It is difficult for them! So much data has to be collected before they can properly analyze it!

After that process the Devs are allowed lose and start using their reasoning, logic and criteria...what ever that might be....maybe they need to consult Santa Claus in order to shape their product vision for the next calendar year...that would explain a lot :trollface:

 

Marry RNGmus! Ho! Ho! Ho!



Uebergewicht #10 Posted 25 December 2017 - 09:51 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 11702 battles
  • 1,061
  • Member since:
    11-15-2015

View PostDava_117, on 25 December 2017 - 11:55 AM, said:

 This summer they announced the rework as imminent, as it was planned just after UK med and HT rework, but now looks like they never talked about it...

 

I remember holding my breath for patches 9.18 and 9.19, thinking this was gonna be it. But nothing so far. Would love if this was brought up in a QA at least, wheter or not they currently have plans or if this is on ice for the forseeable future.



UrQuan #11 Posted 25 December 2017 - 10:28 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 19427 battles
  • 6,182
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-19-2011

View PostUebergewicht, on 25 December 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

 

I remember holding my breath for patches 9.18 and 9.19, thinking this was gonna be it. But nothing so far. Would love if this was brought up in a QA at least, wheter or not they currently have plans or if this is on ice for the forseeable future.

 

Aye. I've been following the IS-4 line for quite some time & the ST-I / IS-4 switch/change/rework has been talked about for a very long time, with a variety of ideas. Some examples I remember that have been talked about:

- giving IS-4 back it's T9 status & buffing ST-I to a proper TX

- Replace IS-4 with ST-II (the twin cannon thing)

- Simply buff IS-4 & keep ST-I & just give it a HD treatment ( seems to be this atm, albeit IS-4 did not receive a buff)

- Split the line & let KV line go to TX with ST-I & IS-4 being a sidebranch/mixbranch from T9 (from KV-4 & IS-3) (this seems to be off the charts now, as they announced new lines already & no mention of KV TX tank)

 

So far, situation 3 seems to be what WG settled on.

It's odd really, of all the lines, ST-I/IS-4 has been talked on getting a change rather early, due to the line inconsistency (KV-4: Good hull, mediocre turret; ST-I: good turret, mediocre hull; IS-4: good hull, good turret (albeit hull is now overshadowed by the other super-armor tanks) but also because of the power shifts (KV-4 to ST-I; big boost in power on tier, ST-I to IS-4: less powerboost, giving ST-I a stronger  more powerful feel tier by tier & leaves IS-4 to feel less powerful then it's predecessor, not helped that it's among the weaker pêrforming TX HT's)

 

So tbh, I fear we'll have to bury any hope of change on this line once WG declares the T8-TX rebalance finished. Till then, we can still hope WG pulls out a white ST-I/IS-4 rabbit out their hat.

I personally wouldn't mind some consistency in the line, but that could make it hard for folks that enjoy the ST-I tank. And it is a nice tank, one of the few dedicated hulldown russian HT's, so I'm sure it has its fans.

 

Edit: The white rabbit could be IS-4 being the TX for the T-10 HT minibranch & the ST-II being the new TX for the KV line, but I highly doubt this, unless they give the IS-4 some buffs on mobility & gun handling.


Edited by UrQuan, 25 December 2017 - 11:06 PM.


RamRaid90 #12 Posted 25 December 2017 - 10:40 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 21398 battles
  • 6,457
  • [D0NG] D0NG
  • Member since:
    12-14-2014

View Postjack_timber, on 25 December 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

 

Nicely sloped hull, 200mm plasma gun, 1000mm pen, laser accuracy, DPM of 1 gazillion.

Coming to the premium shop soon.....

 

Judging by the legnth of that turret vs the people sitting on it i'd say that is around 7/8 meters of turret armour (7,000mm)

Dava_117 #13 Posted 26 December 2017 - 12:41 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 19413 battles
  • 3,271
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014
It's sad to see how this line lost the interest of the comunity. 1 day of thread opening and just 12 replys, half of them not strictly connected to the subject...

Browarszky #14 Posted 26 December 2017 - 01:26 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 16096 battles
  • 3,722
  • [I-S-L] I-S-L
  • Member since:
    12-03-2013
Maybe no one just knows about this. Wonder if even WG has a clue... :sceptic:

Grand_Moff_Tano #15 Posted 26 December 2017 - 02:31 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 1762 battles
  • 10,716
  • [BC28] BC28
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011

View PostBrowarszky, on 26 December 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

Maybe no one just knows about this. Wonder if even WG has a clue... :sceptic:

 

My guess is WG does have a clue, but nothing has yet to be set in stone about the JS-4's replacement.

shane73tank #16 Posted 26 December 2017 - 02:33 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 28146 battles
  • 2,017
  • [USAGI] USAGI
  • Member since:
    03-01-2014

View PostDava_117, on 26 December 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:

It's sad to see how this line lost the interest of the comunity. 1 day of thread opening and just 12 replys, half of them not strictly connected to the subject...

 

or maybe people are bored with Russian tanks dominating the game

Dava_117 #17 Posted 26 December 2017 - 02:36 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 19413 battles
  • 3,271
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014

View Postshane73tank, on 26 December 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

 

or maybe people are bored with Russian tanks dominating the game

 

And from when, IS-4 and its line dominate?

Grand_Moff_Tano #18 Posted 26 December 2017 - 02:37 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 1762 battles
  • 10,716
  • [BC28] BC28
  • Member since:
    05-20-2011

View PostDava_117, on 26 December 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

 

And from when, IS-4 and its line dominate?

 

When it is a against a team full of players with a WN8 waiting below 600?

shane73tank #19 Posted 26 December 2017 - 02:43 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 28146 battles
  • 2,017
  • [USAGI] USAGI
  • Member since:
    03-01-2014

View PostDava_117, on 26 December 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

 

And from when, IS-4 and its line dominate?

 

t150is an option in t6 skirmish, kv4 also , st1 was once a hull down monster , my point though is not just this line it’s the whole nation, kv85, is, is3, t10 (which I love) , defender, is6,is2 berlin, is7, the tier 5 Kv’s

 

ive not even started on the meds........



Dava_117 #20 Posted 26 December 2017 - 03:29 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 19413 battles
  • 3,271
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014

View Postshane73tank, on 26 December 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

 

t150is an option in t6 skirmish, kv4 also , st1 was once a hull down monster , my point though is not just this line it’s the whole nation, kv85, is, is3, t10 (which I love) , defender, is6,is2 berlin, is7, the tier 5 Kv’s

 

ive not even started on the meds........

 

But, with the exception of T-150, all the line has been powercrept. KV-4 still a solid tank, but VK100.01P can do the same manouver better; ST-I still strong too, but Conqueror has now ais better turret, with smaller weackspot, more depression and an UFP that can block same tire AP;

IS-4 has lost almost everything it had now that IS-7 has those unnecessary 2400HP, Type 5 can ignore it's sloped armour and Maus have buffed turret that need HEAT to be reliable penned, leaving alone the 30 shell ammorack!

Just because some USSR line have been overbuffed you can't generalize saying that this line is ok as it is...






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users