Jump to content


Why Tier 8 Face 10?


  • Please log in to reply
86 replies to this topic

Search_Warrant #1 Posted 25 December 2017 - 07:27 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 27182 battles
  • 6,133
  • [LEWD] LEWD
  • Member since:
    02-08-2011

Seriously what can any tier 8 do to a MAUS? a VKB (tier 9)? literally all the german super heavies have little to no weak spots and require gold spam to even do a single thing to them (maus not even gold works). then we have DEATHSTAR that 1 shell has the same damage at the hitpools of tier 8 tanks ( tier 8 TD's only have around 1k!)

 

Why do WG think BAGDER is viable facing tier 8 with 250 lower plate unangled? WG. fix your god dam MM. tier 8 should never face tier 10 monsters. im sick and tierd of being free food for them while they nuke me and i cant do sh** to them in return.


Edited by Search_Warrant, 25 December 2017 - 07:29 PM.


Dava_117 #2 Posted 25 December 2017 - 07:32 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 19413 battles
  • 3,271
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014

View PostSearch_Warrant, on 25 December 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

Seriously what can any tier 8 do to a MAUS? a VKB (tier 9)? literally all the german super heavies have little to no weak spots and require gold spam to even do a single thing to them (maus not even gold works). then we have DEATHSTAR that 1 shell has the same damage at the hitpools of tier 8 tanks ( tier 8 TD's only have around 1k!)

 

Why do WG think BAGDER is viable facing teir 8 with 250 lower plate unangled? WG. fix your god dam MM. tier 8 should never face tier 10 monsters. im sick and tierd of being free food for them while they nuke me and i cant do sh** to them in return.

 

+-1 mm as allways been considered the best solution in terms of balance, but WG have part of its income coming from free-exp and gold round, so it won't change it, at least not in the near future.

CPTANT #3 Posted 25 December 2017 - 07:34 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 7515 battles
  • 259
  • Member since:
    04-13-2012
In ye olde days tier 7 faced tier 10

shane73tank #4 Posted 25 December 2017 - 07:36 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 28146 battles
  • 2,017
  • [USAGI] USAGI
  • Member since:
    03-01-2014
Dude, open the quality street and watch some old fools and horses crimbo specials - f*ck the tanks for today 

nightfoxy #5 Posted 25 December 2017 - 07:49 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 55457 battles
  • 508
  • Member since:
    08-03-2011

what can a tier6 do to a t8, t7 to t9?...

 

doing damage to higher tier tonks gets you better xp and credits if you haven't learned that yet.



Search_Warrant #6 Posted 25 December 2017 - 07:52 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 27182 battles
  • 6,133
  • [LEWD] LEWD
  • Member since:
    02-08-2011

View Postnightfoxy, on 25 December 2017 - 06:49 PM, said:

what can a tier6 do to a t8, t7 to t9?...

 

doing damage to higher tier tonks gets you better xp and credits if you haven't learned that yet.

 

Doing damage kinda hard when you face something you cant damage and he whack you for 500+ on autoaim.

CPTANT #7 Posted 25 December 2017 - 07:55 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 7515 battles
  • 259
  • Member since:
    04-13-2012

You can spot them, you can track them, you can shoot them in their behind.

 

You can destroy their support and arty.

 

You can cap their base while they are busy fighting your T10's.


Edited by CPTANT, 25 December 2017 - 09:21 PM.


Aikl #8 Posted 25 December 2017 - 07:56 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 25529 battles
  • 4,349
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    04-13-2011

View PostSearch_Warrant, on 25 December 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

(...) im sick and tierd of being free food for them while they nuke me and i cant do sh** to them in return.

 

You've pretty much provided the answer to your own question. Feed the casual T10 players so they can pad damage and feel good. Frustrate the living daylights out of more dedicated players so they have to play T10 to make sure they can contribute properly in every game.

 

The real problem isn't really facing T10. That's not new. What is rather new is getting into bottom-tier games more combined with general powercreep and MM patterns where the ability and tank of the top three players essentially decides the whole game for you.

Fewer 'harder' games > more 'easy' games. It's simple, really, your playstyle as bottom-tier is not that different between 3-5-7 and e.g. 7-5-3, but the chance of a roflstomp is much less in the latter pattern. You still have to play like a [edited].

Being on top of these games has the opposite problem. It's fun clubbing seals sometimes, but winning a game with close to no resistance is just boring. Losing a good fight is much more fun. 

 

3-5-7 ends up being a crappy idea for the majority of players - except Wargaming of course.

 

(FWIW: My trick, beyond just playing T10 with players a bit over average, is to play tanks that are somewhat independant. Light tanks may not be too strong, but it's damn good fun if you keep a stiff upper lip and tank hard.)



Search_Warrant #9 Posted 25 December 2017 - 08:05 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 27182 battles
  • 6,133
  • [LEWD] LEWD
  • Member since:
    02-08-2011
Me n my team mate tried hulldown and was greeted by a JP E100 to the turret and erased both our hitpoints by 1k+ leaving us on 1 shots. obviously we got outskilled. i even shot the JP E100 with a 128mm HE. 0 damage next to gun. sigh...

Phobos4321 #10 Posted 25 December 2017 - 08:23 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 43226 battles
  • 8,385
  • Member since:
    09-27-2011

so you think its smart to shot a gunmantlet with HE ?

borsig the 128mm gun would have   630 damage

 

not being able to pen.  315 damage

 

superstructure about 280mm of armor   with superheavy spallliner damage reduction from armor would be about 420      315-420 --> no damage on the other hand  loading apcr  would give you 311 pen. to pass through 280mm of armor, its mg nest in the back would just be 170mm of armor, the lower plate with its about 200-220mm  could be penned with your standard ap too  so even as a T8 you have your ways to fight a T10 frontally  thought expecting  to be able to outtrade it would strange  

 

there might be tanks having harder times to work as low tiers thought its normaly not tds  than again most of the tanks with weaker gun bring in some mobility or stealth

 

and tracking such a tank while your team kills it would gain you more exp/crds than plainly doing your damage



Balc0ra #11 Posted 25 December 2017 - 08:25 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 66235 battles
  • 16,231
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012

But your S1 with 288 pen is fine as top tier? If it had +1 MM, it would not have 288 pen.

 

And you face 3 tier X's. If you don't want to fight them, then look at the map and seek out something you "can" fight, and let your team fail vs the Badger alone.


Edited by Balc0ra, 25 December 2017 - 08:26 PM.


TheFurst #12 Posted 25 December 2017 - 08:28 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 12722 battles
  • 162
  • [HD16] HD16
  • Member since:
    01-04-2015

Yea, the matchmaking is far from constantly satisfying, indeed. However, in my opinion if the maps would offer an environment where one could at least temporarily bypass the unnecessary imbalances and questionable assets and game mechanics would be an almost perfect deal.

 

The matchmaking could be as tough and annoying as is, but if the player is given opportunities to make the best of his game experience via a map design which doesnt determine inferiority and pseudo usefulness right on from the loading screen, that would be quite a solution. As in many other games where enjoyment and fun is priority in game design. Even if a match is a sure loss, at least provides the player an environment to somehow allow an enjoyable and rewarding game on any tier.

 

Ive seen many suggestions regarding more intelligent map design, and even though it might appear to be worth a try and probably a great solution to deal with many issues at least partially, i guess it will never happen.


Edited by TheFurst, 25 December 2017 - 08:31 PM.


Search_Warrant #13 Posted 25 December 2017 - 08:46 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 27182 battles
  • 6,133
  • [LEWD] LEWD
  • Member since:
    02-08-2011

View PostPhobos4321, on 25 December 2017 - 07:23 PM, said:

so you think its smart to shot a gunmantlet with HE ?

borsig the 128mm gun would have   630 damage

 

not being able to pen.  315 damage

 

superstructure about 280mm of armor   with superheavy spallliner damage reduction from armor would be about 420      315-420 --> no damage on the other hand  loading apcr  would give you 311 pen. to pass through 280mm of armor, its mg nest in the back would just be 170mm of armor, the lower plate with its about 200-220mm  could be penned with your standard ap too  so even as a T8 you have your ways to fight a T10 frontally  thought expecting  to be able to outtrade it would strange  

 

there might be tanks having harder times to work as low tiers thought its normaly not tds  than again most of the tanks with weaker gun bring in some mobility or stealth

 

and tracking such a tank while your team kills it would gain you more exp/crds than plainly doing your damage

 

Splashing the engine deck hoping to get an engine fire. im not stupid. i shot next to the mantle.

Search_Warrant #14 Posted 25 December 2017 - 08:47 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 27182 battles
  • 6,133
  • [LEWD] LEWD
  • Member since:
    02-08-2011

View PostBalc0ra, on 25 December 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

But your S1 with 288 pen is fine as top tier? If it had +1 MM, it would not have 288 pen.

 

And you face 3 tier X's. If you don't want to fight them, then look at the map and seek out something you "can" fight, and let your team fail vs the Badger alone.

 

S1 i HATE being top tier as its carry potential is next to 0 due to its Siege Mode clunkyness and paper armor due to overmatch.

Ziurawka #15 Posted 25 December 2017 - 08:50 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 21405 battles
  • 434
  • [NLUFA] NLUFA
  • Member since:
    08-02-2015

The thing about tier VIII facing tier X that is completely bonkers is what you can do when you're in a ~40% game and the top tier stars on your side have all >45% win rate.

I can't remember feeling as helpless in the game as in those matchups since I've been on tier 3 and had a stock machine driving out against KV-1s.

It was a long time ago ad I don't want to return to this cause it's just not fun gameplay for me.

 

I'll argue that this situation doesn't happen (at least not nearly as often) on lower tiers. Even on tier VI against the new age premiums, there seems to be always somehing you can do and every vehicle you face has some kind of limitations. Not to mention that you can usually spot on lower tiers, or you can usually pen (most) tier VIII machines from a safe distance which means you can actually play a support role. When you're in a tier VIII against tier X you're in cannon fodder role more likely.

 

This whole situation won't change cause it seems decided that playing tier X is somehow the goal of this game. For some reason - despite all the complaints - the matchmaker is still flooded with tier X tanks. If asked people usually claim there are less potatoes on higher tiers. Maybe so, but the game is old so there should be much more of them on higher tiers actually.

 

In any case - screw tier X, be part of the solution, not part of the problem :)

 

And also - play up to tier VII or tier IX, those are still valid.

And Type 59, that's valid too...

 


Edited by Ziurawka, 25 December 2017 - 08:56 PM.


nightfoxy #16 Posted 25 December 2017 - 09:05 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 55457 battles
  • 508
  • Member since:
    08-03-2011

View PostZiurawka, on 25 December 2017 - 09:50 PM, said:

The thing about tier VIII facing tier X that is completely bonkers is what you can do when you're in a ~40% game and the top tier stars on your side have all >45% win rate.

 

same sh... happens in other tiers too, so what? its just harder to carry a game if you are in a t10 hevi compared to a defender at t8.



Search_Warrant #17 Posted 25 December 2017 - 09:09 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 27182 battles
  • 6,133
  • [LEWD] LEWD
  • Member since:
    02-08-2011
Playing the Mauerbrecher really opened my eyes how broken tier 8 really is. too slow to relocate, no armor to stop shells, a gun that cant pen weak spots of tier 10. i feel totally useless. i get somewhere and a Mauschen appears. i have gold loaded (seriously gold is way too rampant on tier 8-10 now) and im aiming cupola.. LFP... maybe overangled side? red red red.. and im sat there in a 20kmh brick of a tank and nothing to do but bend over and take it deep in the rear end..

wiggles #18 Posted 25 December 2017 - 09:17 PM

    Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 33995 battles
  • 283
  • Member since:
    09-12-2010

View PostCPTANT, on 25 December 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

You can spot them, you can track them, you can shoot them in the [edited].

 

You can destroy their support and arty.

 

You can cap their base while they are busy fighting your T10's.

 

Did anyone else get Guns of Brixton going in their head when they read the first line?^^

nightfoxy #19 Posted 25 December 2017 - 09:18 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 55457 battles
  • 508
  • Member since:
    08-03-2011
playing stock type 4 really opened my eyes, how broken tier 9 is. so huge tonk, slow as f.... long reload....

jugilismaani #20 Posted 25 December 2017 - 09:22 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 22257 battles
  • 1,123
  • [SPIKE] SPIKE
  • Member since:
    04-29-2014
Do not go to the heavy tank side with a tiger II if there is 3 Maus in enemy team. 




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users