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We need respawn battle modes

battle modes

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Mephisto_HUN #1 Posted 26 December 2017 - 05:11 AM

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First, it's not a hate thread.

A lot of people seem to be frustrated in-game, they are just completely rude which each other. People who could be really good friends in real life.

I consider myself not a pro, but quite a good player, and I am thinking of leaving this game for one reason: It hurts people.
Most of the games looks like this: in 3-4 minutes, the whole team is gone, and the enemy loses 1-2 tanks. Or even worse, the enemy is gone by the time you have really positioned yourself on the map. I do not mind losing at all, but considering the time you have to wait to start the battle and think out something, it just ends like a flash. Then you can start over, and wait again. A lot. Even the games you win feel mostly undeserved, distressing and non-satisfying.

We could argue years about who is a nab, a noob, a newbie, a complete ****** and so on. I was thinking about it like a social study and I have some conclusions.

I think the game is just really hardcore. If you play good, then you are slowly become really good. Play bad, and your failure's affect everything. It just widens the dimensions of human skills. The gap between players becomes more and more bigger. Then players are overreacting all the time for no reason and creating verbal battlefields. The chat window is like infectious instead of being a tactical conversation platform.

As there are no respawn-like battles, the whole 15 minutes gameplay is based on very very sophisticated and crucial moments. If only one single player makes a tiny bad move, the whole thing goes down like a domino-effect. And this is like most of the time, I know you guys know what am I talking about.
I totally understand if someone just doesn't get a grip on this game, even after a ton of battles. For some people, this can be a hard game! No, he/she is not an idiot, only it's not as easy for him. Maybe just having a bad internet connection, or low fps, or just not as agile or smart as you. That's it. Both bad and good players are being punished in a very cruel way. 

With an optional respawn battle mode, this whole widened set of player skills could be normalized. If someone is just bad and makes some bad moves, it still can be corrected later. The better players are going to win, but they have to be constantly better, and there's a lot more chance to turn the game. You won't feel mentally exhausted for waiting a lot of time just to get screwed in a '1 vs a lot' situation instantly. Even if losing, you can have good moments with the enemy, get some winning experience, and you can feel that you have actually done something for the team. And you HAD FUN.

The current normal battle mode is simply suited for REAL teams. Or real hardcore players who like the risk and taste of it. I totally understand WG has to be based on business models. Well, this model makes me leave the game for good. Maybe I'm an exception. Still, I don't see the business in this anymore.

SuedKAT #2 Posted 26 December 2017 - 05:16 AM

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There have been various modes over the year in which respawns have been a thing, but they have generally either been shutdown due to lack of interest or due to some mission people start rigging. But there are quite a few different battles modes you can participate in apart from normal random battles, most you need a clan or at least a group of people to play though.

Graeme0 #3 Posted 26 December 2017 - 10:19 AM

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Forget respawns, it will encourage bad play as dying is not the end of the game.

_T_1_T_4_N_0_ #4 Posted 26 December 2017 - 11:24 AM

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Nope definitely not. 

UrQuan #5 Posted 26 December 2017 - 12:03 PM

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Do note that respawn modes would only enhance the roflstomp feel. What makes you think that the guys who die so fast, won't die after respawning equally fast? Not to mention that very good players would have even more of an impact on the game. 

While the latter sounds good to you, it also means that the moment there's a very good player in a team, rest is mainly windowdressing, as the very good player will be able to maximize his respawns, to the point that when you kill him it might very well be deliberate, so he gets a new full HP tank to wreck havoc with. 

 

Tbh, respawn systems work best in a ladder / skill based environment, allowing equally skilled people to face each other & have tense back & forth battles. In an environment like Wot, where all skill-levels are thrown in together, it will only lead to even more uneven fights & even harder steamrolls, because the good player gets more chances to use (and he gets a second chance when RNG crapped on him) while the bad players just keep throwing their tanks away at an accelerated pace.

 

As noted above, there have been modes with respawning enabled, with varying results (the PvE halloween mode was the most successful, while the rampage mode was far less & was even open to rigging, but that had more to do with the big reward coupled with the low popularity of the mode)


Edited by UrQuan, 26 December 2017 - 12:05 PM.


SirDixie #6 Posted 26 December 2017 - 12:09 PM

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Nope. If you put respawn in then you're just going to increase the tendency for people to YOLO in as they know that if they die they're going to be back in a few seconds.

 

If I want respawn battles then I'll go and play War Thunder (and I do). I like that WT has respawn and WoT does not. I don't want all my games to be some sort of beige mix where the only thing that changes is the logo on the start screen.



Schemezoid #7 Posted 26 December 2017 - 01:00 PM

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Like wowp, where people can respawn but leave after their first death? Which is fast for some of the shittier players....

SnowRelic #8 Posted 26 December 2017 - 01:56 PM

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WG should just up the repair and premium ammo costs significantly and add more credits for players who lived through the first few minutes. Eventually some will get it and there will be a bit less suiciding going on. The power of economics. But then again, decrease yolo'ing and people will complain about camping.

thiextar #9 Posted 26 December 2017 - 02:01 PM

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Respawns would be terrible lol, way to turn this game into a suicide fest where nothing matters

Mephisto_HUN #10 Posted 26 December 2017 - 02:37 PM

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I understand your argument, I think you're right, but I have some ideas then.

I did not play the previous respawn modes in this game. There could be some measurements with the respawn itself: if you die out too fast, you have to wait longer, or pay more. As you've mentioned as well, a more dynamic and smart rewarding system would balance player behavior. Or maybe not, I don't know for sure.

I truly believe the problem is not with the players, as people statistically stay the same. We are just humans, that's it. A modern online game should have very thought-out dynamics about it, there is no other way.

Edited by Mephisto_HUN, 26 December 2017 - 02:38 PM.


RamRaid90 #11 Posted 26 December 2017 - 02:39 PM

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View PostUrQuan, on 26 December 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

as the very good player will be able to maximize his respawns, to the point that when you kill him it might very well be deliberate, so he gets a new full HP tank to wreck havoc with. 
 

 

All that springs to mind is "Oh no there are two enemies left and one is capping and i'm too slow to get back...quick let me die so i can teleport back to base"...

 

Similar to capture the flag in UT or Quake. The second you get to the base and get the flag you're surrounded by enemies because they all just blow themselves up to teleport back o base lol


Edited by RamRaid90, 26 December 2017 - 02:51 PM.


Graeme0 #12 Posted 26 December 2017 - 02:40 PM

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Mephisto, it sounds like you need to play 'Tanki Online' you will get all the respawns you want

HM_Kaiser #13 Posted 26 December 2017 - 02:51 PM

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View Postthiextar, on 26 December 2017 - 01:01 PM, said:

Respawns would be terrible lol, way to turn this game into a suicide fest where nothing matters

 

Totally agree with that. Wot would become a "call of duty with tanks". I'd hate such a game mode. There's already enough stupidity need to learn game in the player base.

ApocalypseSquad #14 Posted 26 December 2017 - 02:58 PM

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Also opposed. As far as I can tell, one of the key differentiators between good players (of which I am not one...) and the rest is the ability to stay alive.  Respawns look to me just to be a way of deskilling the game.

SuedKAT #15 Posted 26 December 2017 - 03:27 PM

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View PostMephisto_HUN, on 26 December 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

I truly believe the problem is not with the players, as people statistically stay the same. We are just humans, that's it. A modern online game should have very thought-out dynamics about it, there is no other way.

 

I disagree with that, just go and look at a stat site and you see your own curves going up, you haven't stayed the same, you've learnt the games mechanics and had your results get better and better. Sure we all have a "skill ceiling" so to speak, but most players can evolve and go beyond their current ability if they just put in some effort. On the other hand, some don't simply care, they don't play the game to get the bests results, they simply play it to drive a tank and shoot stuff and then it don't really matter what's going on or if your respawn or not.



Mephisto_HUN #16 Posted 26 December 2017 - 06:13 PM

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View PostSuedKAT, on 26 December 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

 

I disagree with that, just go and look at a stat site and you see your own curves going up, you haven't stayed the same, you've learnt the games mechanics and had your results get better and better. Sure we all have a "skill ceiling" so to speak, but most players can evolve and go beyond their current ability if they just put in some effort. On the other hand, some don't simply care, they don't play the game to get the bests results, they simply play it to drive a tank and shoot stuff and then it don't really matter what's going on or if your respawn or not.

 

You are absolutely right there. I only meant some kind of 'economy' of humans. Most of the player's will statistically be on this level, continuously getting better, while new players are arriving.

The respawn mode is voted down as I see. Well, it was just the first idea to this problem. Maybe it is not a problem for everybody, or maybe there is no clear solution at all.

Uebergewicht #17 Posted 26 December 2017 - 06:34 PM

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WG (or rather an outsourced studio) were already working on the latest version of a objective-based, 30vs30 mode with respawns called "frontline". They´ve even been testing it and invited community contributors, and I have to say, it looked quite interesting. However that was some months ago, and it went awfully quiet around this upcoming mode - instead we got grand battles so far, which is the same modus operandi as regular matches, but with more tanks.

fighting_falcon93 #18 Posted 26 December 2017 - 07:11 PM

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To the ones saying that respawns won't work... Have you played Battlefield 2 (or atleast any other Battlefield game)?

 

I think that respawn would work very well in WoT aswell and it would eliminate a lot of frustration from games where you do 1 mistake and die within a few seconds. It would also provide more actual play-time and less time sitting in a queue or loading screen and waiting. With that said, this wouldn't work with the system of 2 bases where 1 cap results in a win that we have in the game today, we would need a similiar point system that Battlefield uses, i.e. multiple capture points with their own spawn points, where each captured base removes points from the enemies points pool, and each death also bleeds points from the team.

 

It would be interesting to have "eternal" battles that go on forever. Think something along these lines: When you want to play, you join a battle on a specific map. When loaded, you get automatically placed on 1 team and decide where you want to spawn. You play, capture bases, kill tanks, and for each action your receive some xp. This accumulates over time, so if you play for 15 minutes, you get maybe 3'000 xp, and if you play 3 hours, it becomes 36'000 xp. Obviously just a concept, but I think it would be interesting.

 

Personally I think that WoT should have 2 (and only 2) different random modes (competetive modes not included here). It should be Deathmatch (random with respawn) and Hardcore (random without respawn).



Browarszky #19 Posted 26 December 2017 - 07:12 PM

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Respawns could work, IMO, if we had totally different type of game mode/maps to play on. Something that would actually see each side either advance or retreat in terms of terrain/objectives held. This would require completely redesigned maps and scenarios, though.

 

fighting_falcon93, on 26 December 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

 ...we would need a similiar point system that Battlefield uses, i.e. multiple capture points with their own spawn points...

 

Yes, thank you, that is exactly what I meant.


Edited by Browarszky, 26 December 2017 - 07:14 PM.


Yakito #20 Posted 26 December 2017 - 07:15 PM

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No. The to should be "I need respawn battle mode". I certainly don't need it. It wouldn't be bad, but I don't care much. It takes away a bit of realism. And it makes it more into FPS games that I loathe.





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