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Why are devs ruining everything what was somewhat good


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Rovikiller #1 Posted 28 December 2017 - 05:39 AM

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In last few months to a year and half wargaming, actually WoT devs and employees, have decided to change some things so dramatically and unnecessarily that they just ruined some stuff like diversity, action and fun.

I'll just list some of those things here, it's up to you if you agree or disagree, but come in discussion with an argument at least.

 

1. Light Tanks

WG always says that they fixed and balanced the light tanks in 9.18 patch, but in reality, they never got fixed, or balanced.
They were just stretched to tier 10 with nothing good coming out of it. Just to list it:

  • M41 Bulldog - got nerfed when moved up to tier 8, as its 75mm autoloader lost 4 shells in its clip, and recently it lost its autoloader completely, although it received(I at least think so) buffs to make it competent at tier 8, it only has slightly better soft stats for mobility(terrain resistance) and a little bit more horsepower, but gun is inadequate at confronting higher tiers which tier 8 tanks usually get these days
  • AMX ELC - This tank was crippled in this "balance", removing fun factor completely as it cannot even circle around other tanks anymore, it got bigger when transited in HD, and with recent revision of light tanks it was just purely nerfed, okay, it doesn't meet tier 8 tanks anymore, but it still meets tier 4 to tier 7 tanks, and what it is now is just a shadow of what it was
  • HWK 12 - this tank has taken place of RU-251 at tier 8 as RU was moved up a tier, and this tank is pure garbage, aluminium on wheels with German highlanders drunk to death.. RU is good at its current tier, but it was much better and funnier at tier 8
  • VK 2801 - I just remember when I wanted to reach RU, I played with VK and its derp 10.5 gun, having fun around as it was great for trolling enemies and sometimes rewards you with lots of damage if you know what are you doing, now it is just another tank in the line which is incompetent
  • B-C 12t - this tank is simply way to weak for its tier, it reminds me of AMX 12t when lights had +4 MM, just not competent enough to outbeat other lights, and what makes it worse, all 3 popular branches continue from it (BC 25t, 13 90 and 105, AMX 30b) it is simply way too bad to have it like this here, when I played with it, I simply didn't feel anything special about it, and it was way too weak, even for spotting tanks, its 380m view range is just bad for a light tank

I am just too lazy to list all problems and it would take me hours of research on all light tanks, and that is not even biggest problem in this game, just to mention that this change to light tanks changed them actually to "medium" tanks but with camo bonus on move

 

2. Replacing/removing Tanks

I just don't understand why is wargaming doing this, they are always looking for excuses like "these don't fit in the line", well make another minibranch, why remove tanks? This latest one which happened(Badger) and latest one which is about to happen(Obj 263) are just abnormal, we don't need more reward, special tanks, we need more playable tanks, Badger is just pure armor to front and every player who has brain will just break havoc trough enemy team with its outstanding DPM, couldn't they at least make another minibranch then? Obj 263 change which is obviously coming as WG is pushing it hard even though 90% of community is against it(But their tests always show different, maybe if they tested it with real community and not paid "bots" maybe they would get real results), it is just unnecessary. Why would you move such a unique tank which is actually balanced down to tier 9, remove SU 122 54, and put completely stupid tank like Obj 268 V4, it is not unique, it doesn't have anything special, it is just another huge alpha tank which are already flooding the tier 10, while SU 122 54 doesn't really fit into branch as it has his superstructure set to front rather than rear, it doesn't mean that it should be immediately removed, it could fit in other line, or could lead to Obj 263 and Obj 268 V4, why do they have to ruin every line which doesn't need any change? Just stop already with that stupidity and illogicality.

 

3. Maps

I haven't really played much trough December until 22nd, and when I started to play I just noticed that all maps are same, 3 to 4 corridors where you can go and hope that enemy team doesn't go there as it would end up in deadly skirmish(Mountain pass, Fjords, Windstorm, Ensk, Stalingrad, Kharkov, Paris, Tundra and many more) all these maps had before some shorter routes which were only lately classified as "boosts", now whatever type of a player you are, you have two options, sit in base or go into frontal skirmish, there is no other way, and that's why battles end up far more often with results like 15:1, of course there's HEAT which will pen everything, but how do you play exactly against Type 5, Maus, WZs, IS 7s when you meet them in corridors? Well, you can turn and run, and you will still end up dying unless you have had luck and found a way which is not blocked by super TDs or heavies. You really can't do much on some maps these days, hell even Prohorovka is some type of corridor map, there are basically 3 ways which players choose, or they die. Also it feels like I'm playing on 4 maps whole day, they've been removing maps and limiting them to tiers or game modes and it just ruined map rotation, also lack of new maps is huge, at least bring back old ones like Port and Dragon Ridge or Pearl River... As far as I remember Port was removed before newest improved physics were introduced because railroads would decrease speed too much, well this is not the case today, so what is the problem with that map apart from the fact that it has none?

 

4. Balance

I read a lot about some kind of balancing, but I only see that WG is doing it wrong, overbuffing some tanks just way too much(Obj 140, M48 Patton, T44) and leaving others completely neglected (Leopard 1, STB 1, T 34 2) and actually most of tier 5 to tier 8 lights need changes, buffs mostly, as they were just screwed with stretching light tanks to tier 10. Just think how many times IS 7 was buffed and how many T 34 2, or STB 1.. Answer is obvious. Some tanks are neglected since they got released, and only changes they got were switching to HD. Also WG is making MM less diverse with every patch, thus creating and indirectly contributing to one team getting better tanks and obliterating others with worse ones, MM is so limited now that rarely anything can turn the tide of the battle, if it is already 4:0 or 4:1 for one team it means that leading team will win, it is like preset, impossible to catch up, unless you are super lucky.

I don't want +1/-1 MM but I think that pre-9.19 patches had actually better MM, it should have been just regulated then better, it's easiest to put limits, but it also breaks the game mostly.

 

5. Other Stuff

I want to finalize this post as I've been writing it for 4 hours and been doing research on some stuff. To point out other things I will just put them in a list:

  • New customization - while it has good things in it, you can create your own patterns, paint your tank however you want to, and that its usage time was changed from real time to number of battles played, which is huge improvement, but then all these new features require you to pay, to use gold, well you can choose preset style, but that is all what you can do if you don't pay, also if you want to paint whole tank you need to use 150 gold, which is just stupid, preset styles cost 75k credits no matter what tank or class, which isn't much, but we could at least get to choose which camouflage patterns we want to use, I don't want to pay for every part of the tank to be painted
  • "Boosting" places getting removed - it is sad that so many places got removed which weren't gamebreaking at all Tundra - left from north spawn, where you could shorten your way up to hill; Karelia - hill in southeast middle; Fjords - northeast hill where you could go a little bit higher and maybe give some element of surprise; Airfield - when moving from west spawn to hill in the middle, you could climb to far left part of the middle hill and avoid getting shelled from campers while put a shot or two in those who dare to push northern flank(heavy tank corridor) and a boost to eastern part where you could shorten your way to bushes without getting spotted and damaged, can't remember all of the places now, but now it feels just like as I wrote above, under "Maps" section, you have corridors or camping as a solution. Game feels much more like pre 8.0 patches, before introduction of physics, and it feels bad
  • Clans and Clan Wars - there have been so many great proposals to change clan wars to something better, but WG always turned blind eye to it and did something completely different(Ranked battles, Grand battles) and unnecessary(again ranked battles). Only thing that keeps players in clans and clan wars are friends and reward tanks at the end of campaigns, which again only best clans get(nothing wrong with best clans getting best rewards, but you can't give all to less than 1% of participating clans and nothing to others) smaller and weaker clans never have a chance to control a territory let alone 3 territories which could bring something to clan. And I don't think that skirmishes are something good and popular these days either..

 

I won't even speak about gold ammo, it's been covered so many times but with no use, so it's just a waste of time and words, balancing premium tanks too, I don't need that in my life.

I thank you if you've read this far and even more so if you read it whole with understanding and can discuss the matters.

If I missed something I will probably just add it as a post script.



Negativvv #2 Posted 28 December 2017 - 05:47 AM

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I'm a bit salty my IO Exp with Medium tank speed and that 10cm gun got nerfed I guess...

AlbertL612 #3 Posted 28 December 2017 - 05:52 AM

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Remove Td's and arty = game fixed 

Havenless #4 Posted 28 December 2017 - 06:17 AM

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Yeah, you want balance but you don't want +1/-1 matchmaking. Because putting Defenders and Japanese Tigers to fight each other is really good balance.

 


Edited by Havenless, 28 December 2017 - 06:20 AM.


M62B #5 Posted 28 December 2017 - 06:39 AM

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View PostHavenless, on 28 December 2017 - 05:17 AM, said:

Yeah, you want balance but you don't want +1/-1 matchmaking. Because putting Defenders and Japanese Tigers to fight each other is really good balance.

 

 

I take it this is your re-roll account 

Snake_Keeper #6 Posted 28 December 2017 - 06:41 AM

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 Please don't quote pictures...


Edited by Snake_Keeper, 28 December 2017 - 06:43 AM.


Rovikiller #7 Posted 28 December 2017 - 07:16 AM

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I believe that +1/-1 MM tier spread doesn't change anything, in fact it would make everything even worse, imagine if you would be seeing Type 5s and Mauses by double more often than now, it would break the game completely and make it boring very quickly.

Havenless #8 Posted 28 December 2017 - 07:23 AM

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View PostRovikiller, on 28 December 2017 - 09:16 AM, said:

I believe that +1/-1 MM tier spread doesn't change anything, in fact it would make everything even worse, imagine if you would be seeing Type 5s and Mauses by double more often than now, it would break the game completely and make it boring very quickly.

 

Yeah, putting those Mauses and Type 5s in the same battles with Tiger IIs and TVP VTUs clearly fixes the Maus/Type 5 problem. The balancing department should really hire you.

 

You're trying to make it look like +1/-1 would double the number of Mauses and Type 5s. I have no idea where you get this number from because there's no logic behind it. More than anything, with +1/-1 every tank that faces a Maus or Type 5 would have at least some chance of fighting it.


Edited by Havenless, 28 December 2017 - 07:23 AM.


Emeraldweed #9 Posted 28 December 2017 - 07:45 AM

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View PostRovikiller, on 28 December 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

 

  • HWK 12 - this tank has taken place of RU-251 at tier 8 as RU was moved up a tier, and this tank is pure garbage, aluminium on wheels with German highlanders drunk to death.. RU is good at its current tier, but it was much better and funnier at tier 8

 

I liked your post for the effort, however HWK12 is a really nice tank- if you get the hold of it, for me the two downsides  is the derpy/howitzer HE round (worthless at long ranges and on moving targets) an that it flips easily. 

 

BC12t-> View range sucks however its one of the fastest tanks ideal for active scouting , i have a very few games in it as i just bought it but it seemed at least decent to me 

 

Boosting: get the crapaway, it promotes camping and most of the boosts rely on sacrificing your team mates for the easy damage, i was ok with it  when it was rare? something like a challenge but when more and more people got a hold of it through xans  vids ( <3 xan) it became annoying. 



Havenless #10 Posted 28 December 2017 - 08:02 AM

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View PostM62B, on 28 December 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

 

I take it this is your re-roll account 

 

Let's all 46% bots "like" this post because reading signatures, just like reading minimap, is just so hard.

Rovikiller #11 Posted 28 December 2017 - 08:04 AM

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View PostHavenless, on 28 December 2017 - 07:23 AM, said:

 

Yeah, putting those Mauses and Type 5s in the same battles with Tiger IIs and TVP VTUs clearly fixes the Maus/Type 5 problem. The balancing department should really hire you.

 

You're trying to make it look like +1/-1 would double the number of Mauses and Type 5s. I have no idea where you get this number from because there's no logic behind it. More than anything, with +1/-1 every tank that faces a Maus or Type 5 would have at least some chance of fighting it.

 

Simple logic called maths, if you narrow a circle, you get more of these things in that circle, due to current type of matchmake, you would get far more often tier 10 for example than tier 9.. Tiger and TVP should be buffed accordingly, but WG loves russian tanks more than other ones.. And believe me, since 2011 I've seen so many changes in this game which made it worse, many thought that this 3/5/7 thing would be great, but it ruined the matchmaker to even worse state, the only good thing about it is that you don't fight 10 tier 10 tanks in a tier 8, but rather 3, but you see that you get 50+% of the time +2 matchmake, and same would be with +1 just with less diversity, things would get more expensive and it would be boring. As I said, you don't fix things by just putting more limits. I believe that Tiger 2 could perfectly fight tier 8 tanks if it received buffs which it cries for, including TVP as well. Technically tanks like Obj 416 can compete with tier 10 tanks, due to incredible HEAT pen on top gun. You see MM takes number of vehicles by tier and it tries to find best possible solution to allocate all those tanks accordingly to some kind of balance, and it depends on the weight of the vehicle matchmaker, also if you platoon up there's by far higher chance you'll get +1 or +2 battle than -1 or -2. Matchmaker is broken due to imbalanced tanks and classes as a whole matter, not because of MM spread. Also thing about fun stuff, if you deal 1000 damage to tier 10 tank in a tier 8 tank you'll get far bigger reward than by dealing 1000 damage to tier 6 or 7 or even same tier tanks. -1/+1 would seem as a perfect solution, but if actually implemented it would be a chaos for all classes and all tanks. It's all about constant balance between tanks. Also before limiting platoons to only same tier tanks, people entered in +4 matches and still did a lot, even more than some players in high tiers, and of course reward is huge.

View PostEmeraldweed, on 28 December 2017 - 07:45 AM, said:

 

I liked your post for the effort, however HWK12 is a really nice tank- if you get the hold of it, for me the two downsides  is the derpy/howitzer HE round (worthless at long ranges and on moving targets) an that it flips easily. 

 

BC12t-> View range sucks however its one of the fastest tanks ideal for active scouting , i have a very few games in it as i just bought it but it seemed at least decent to me 

 

Boosting: get the crapaway, it promotes camping and most of the boosts rely on sacrificing your team mates for the easy damage, i was ok with it  when it was rare? something like a challenge but when more and more people got a hold of it through xans  vids ( <3 xan) it became annoying. 

 

BC 12t is about nothing else but about looking for a chance to get to the best bush where you can spot as many targets as possible and allow team to shoot them, it's better suited for passive scouting, and at the late game you get the chance to attack. 

I agree that some places were just stupid (Redshire north hill), but some simply could have helped by little measure, which wouldn't ruin the game for one or the other side. Again, WG could have balanced all these locations instead of simply putting rocks and invisible walls everywhere, and make those parts of map useful.

 

Also I came up with an idea that Ensk could be expanded to 1x1km square, and expanded to north and east, idea of disabling it from tier 6+ tanks would just harm map rotation even more.



Havenless #12 Posted 28 December 2017 - 08:26 AM

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View PostRovikiller, on 28 December 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

 

Simple logic called maths, if you narrow a circle, you get more of these things in that circle, due to current type of matchmake, you would get far more often tier 10 for example than tier 9.. Tiger and TVP should be buffed accordingly, but WG loves russian tanks more than other ones.. And believe me, since 2011 I've seen so many changes in this game which made it worse, many thought that this 3/5/7 thing would be great, but it ruined the matchmaker to even worse state, the only good thing about it is that you don't fight 10 tier 10 tanks in a tier 8, but rather 3, but you see that you get 50+% of the time +2 matchmake, and same would be with +1 just with less diversity, things would get more expensive and it would be boring. As I said, you don't fix things by just putting more limits. I believe that Tiger 2 could perfectly fight tier 8 tanks if it received buffs which it cries for, including TVP as well. Technically tanks like Obj 416 can compete with tier 10 tanks, due to incredible HEAT pen on top gun. You see MM takes number of vehicles by tier and it tries to find best possible solution to allocate all those tanks accordingly to some kind of balance, and it depends on the weight of the vehicle matchmaker, also if you platoon up there's by far higher chance you'll get +1 or +2 battle than -1 or -2. Matchmaker is broken due to imbalanced tanks and classes as a whole matter, not because of MM spread. Also thing about fun stuff, if you deal 1000 damage to tier 10 tank in a tier 8 tank you'll get far bigger reward than by dealing 1000 damage to tier 6 or 7 or even same tier tanks. -1/+1 would seem as a perfect solution, but if actually implemented it would be a chaos for all classes and all tanks. It's all about constant balance between tanks. Also before limiting platoons to only same tier tanks, people entered in +4 matches and still did a lot, even more than some players in high tiers, and of course reward is huge.

 

The problem about your "math" is that it's terribly wrong. The same number of Type 5 Heavies would be played as now, the only difference would be that your tier 9-10 tanks would see them more often because currently some of them are put into same battles with tier 8 tanks. If this is good for the game balance in some way, you're either really stupid or delusional. I don't know which one.

 

The rest of your post is just baseless BS without any actual logic and typical +2/-2 broken gameplay fanboy speech. 

 

As long as you want +2/-2 in the game, please don't say anything about wanting balanced gameplay. You can try to sugarcoat it however you want but as long as you want those Type 5s and Mauses in the same battle with tier 8 tanks, "balance" is not what you're after.


Edited by Havenless, 28 December 2017 - 08:40 AM.


ZlatanArKung #13 Posted 28 December 2017 - 08:41 AM

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The SU-122-54 fits the Obj 263 line just good though.

It has the traits of the line, meaning.

High dpm.
Low alpha.
Good mobility.
Bad gun depression.
Bad gun traverse.
Some/decent frontal armour.

Those are the main attributes of the Obj 263 line.
The rear mounted casemate thing is irrelevant compared to those.
And the Obj268 v.4 is stupid because it breaks those attributes.
It is not a low alpha high dpm tank.
It doesn't have mobility.

ZlatanArKung #14 Posted 28 December 2017 - 08:45 AM

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And +/-1 would be far better than current bs MM.
The 3-5-7 is stupid as a concept and as an active MM.
Removing that template would only be good.
Removing templates all together and add a +/-1 MM accotdi g to olf tank weight rules with added rule of similar amount of heavy tanks and medium tanks. Limit combined amount of support vehicles to like 6 or 7 per game (support vehicles are TD, light and arty) limit arty to 1. would be really nice.

Vanezza #15 Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:04 AM

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1. Light Tanks

 

I like light tank nerf. Very silly game when the light tank shoots all others the gold and wins. I'ts not game. 

i like light tank viewrange nerf too. I do not like how the game stands because one tank spys in the bush. 



ZlatanArKung #16 Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:14 AM

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View PostVanezza, on 28 December 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

1. Light Tanks

 

I like light tank nerf. Very silly game when the light tank shoots all others the gold and wins. I'ts not game. 

i like light tank viewrange nerf too. I do not like how the game stands because one tank spys in the bush. 

 

So you like that light tanks are essentially a useless class that cant do crap.



Vanezza #17 Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:22 AM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 28 December 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

 

So you like that light tanks are essentially a useless class that cant do crap.

 

Not useless. Only if there are spot missions, it is very difficult. 

But you want an unnaturally powerful tank - very good camo, very good viewrange, 6 round clip and ofc goldammo.

 



ZlatanArKung #18 Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:29 AM

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View PostVanezza, on 28 December 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

 

Not useless. Only if there are spot missions, it is very difficult. 

But you want an unnaturally powerful tank - very good camo, very good viewrange, 6 round clip and ofc goldammo.

 

Unnaturally powerful?

 

Light tanks have NEVER been powerful in this game, maybe except first bulldog iteration.

 

They have been OK,  but in essence, just a worse medium tank.

 

And now they are more or less useless, due to map design which force players into 50m brawls and useless guns.



mickleblade #19 Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:29 AM

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View PostVanezza, on 28 December 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

1. Light Tanks

 

I like light tank nerf. Very silly game when the light tank shoots all others the gold and wins. I'ts not game. 

i like light tank viewrange nerf too. I do not like how the game stands because one tank spys in the bush. 

 

the viewrange nerf would be ok IF there were any bushes to hide in. Passive scouting is dead now. WG applied their own tundra mod to the game a couple of years back. It's harder to get the 2500 spotting mission I'm on now than the old 4k LT15 mission. Scouting on Ensk? Mines? Himmeslbollockdorf? really? Pray for prokorvodka, hope you get to the magic bush etc.

Vanezza #20 Posted 28 December 2017 - 09:36 AM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 28 December 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:

Unnaturally powerful?

 

Light tanks have NEVER been powerful in this game, maybe except first bulldog iteration.

 

They have been OK,  but in essence, just a worse medium tank.

 

And now they are more or less useless, due to map design which force players into 50m brawls and useless guns.

 

Never? Take old time T71 and easily done 3-5k damage and tank was tier 7.






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