Jump to content


Contradictory high tier penetration values...

nerf lights more...

  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

Saykecske #1 Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:39 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 11436 battles
  • 150
  • Member since:
    02-25-2015

So I bought WZ-132-1 yesterday, played a few games and figured it out that i can't penetrate a [nice] T-100 LT from 400 meters 3 times..

(he was looking staight forward compared to me)

His armor:

Why is that?

Official WoT Wiki:

Then the WZ-132-1's (tier 10) 105 mm, relatively high velocity, DEFAULT shells should have far less dropoff than the WZ-132A's (tier 9) 100 mm, slower, PREMIUM apcr shells.

=The higher the gun tier, the shell velocity, and the caliber, the lower the penetration loss over distance.

#nope

 

And also the 132-1 uses the same 105mm L7 gun that most of the british tier 9-10 meds and the Charioteer, which has 268 mm pen (and 258 at 500 meters).

And would I bet my life that the AMX 30 B with 2 mm's more pen than the 132-1 but with only 1100 m/s shell velocity has only 10 mm's dropoff at 500 meters.

Well balanced, WG.

 

 


Edited by Saykecske, 01 January 2018 - 08:49 PM.


Obsessive_Compulsive #2 Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:41 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 25823 battles
  • 8,048
  • [ADUK] ADUK
  • Member since:
    09-09-2014
you are assuming the reason you bounced is due to penetration loss over distance and not bad angles...

Saykecske #3 Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:44 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 11436 battles
  • 150
  • Member since:
    02-25-2015

View PostObsessive_Compulsive, on 01 January 2018 - 08:41 PM, said:

you are assuming the reason you bounced is due to penetration loss over distance and not bad angles...

 

The effective armor on the T-100 LT frontally is 210 mm for an APCR shell.

Obsessive_Compulsive #4 Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:45 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 25823 battles
  • 8,048
  • [ADUK] ADUK
  • Member since:
    09-09-2014

View PostSaykecske, on 01 January 2018 - 08:44 PM, said:

 

The effective armor on the T-100 LT frontally is 210 mm for an APCR shell.

 

did you hit the front? first I heard of it? how about a replay oh and to ease your suffering I will go into the wiki and edit the info so it makes you happy.

Slyspy #5 Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:48 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 14201 battles
  • 16,686
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-07-2011
Perhaps the OP is confused by the term "rule of thumb"? Also, of course, the wiki could be plain wrong. 

somegras #6 Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:54 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 48937 battles
  • 8,707
  • [IDEAL] IDEAL
  • Member since:
    09-04-2013

But LTs are not supposed to snipe. REEEE

 

// WG



Saykecske #7 Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:57 PM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 11436 battles
  • 150
  • Member since:
    02-25-2015

View PostObsessive_Compulsive, on 01 January 2018 - 08:45 PM, said:

 

did you hit the front? first I heard of it? how about a replay oh and to ease your suffering I will go into the wiki and edit the info so it makes you happy.

 

I accindentally hit Tab button and it posted the whole thing without finsihing it, Soryy.

hedi2222 #8 Posted 01 January 2018 - 08:58 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 30444 battles
  • 7,831
  • [LEWD] LEWD
  • Member since:
    08-12-2013

View Postsomegras, on 01 January 2018 - 07:54 PM, said:

But LTs are not supposed to snipe. REEEE

 

// WG

 

This

Basically LTs lose a lot more penetration over distance , a huge amount compared to normal tanks. According to WG this is to stop them from "sniping" and taking the roles of meds.

truoste #9 Posted 01 January 2018 - 10:58 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 38045 battles
  • 1,364
  • Member since:
    08-20-2013

View PostSaykecske, on 01 January 2018 - 07:39 PM, said:

So I bought WZ-132-1 yesterday, played a few games and figured it out that i can't penetrate a [nice] T-100 LT from 400 meters 3 times..

(he was looking staight forward compared to me)

His armor:

Why is that?

Official WoT Wiki:

Then the WZ-132-1's (tier 10) 105 mm, relatively high velocity, DEFAULT shells should have far less dropoff than the WZ-132A's (tier 9) 100 mm, slower, PREMIUM apcr shells.

=The higher the gun tier, the shell velocity, and the caliber, the lower the penetration loss over distance.

#nope

 

And also the 132-1 uses the same 105mm L7 gun that most of the british tier 9-10 meds and the Charioteer, which has 268 mm pen (and 258 at 500 meters).

And would I bet my life that the AMX 30 B with 2 mm's more pen than the 132-1 but with only 1100 m/s shell velocity has only 10 mm's dropoff at 500 meters.

Well balanced, WG.

 

 

 

Did you not get the memo? Light tanks are not meant to snipe. Use your armor and brawl like WG intended....

GrambiczeQ #10 Posted 12 April 2018 - 11:04 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 12299 battles
  • 224
  • [F_A_F] F_A_F
  • Member since:
    06-15-2013
well, this game doesnt make sense for a long time.

Strappster #11 Posted 12 April 2018 - 11:12 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 23893 battles
  • 9,019
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    10-20-2015

View PostSaykecske, on 01 January 2018 - 07:44 PM, said:

The effective armor on the T-100 LT frontally is 210 mm for an APCR shell.

 

Yeah. 



Bezbel #12 Posted 12 April 2018 - 11:15 PM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 13822 battles
  • 71
  • [GIFTD] GIFTD
  • Member since:
    05-23-2015

It's like that for all tier 10 light tanks, their pen drops off insanely and it's a special trait found nowhere else

WG is afraid of light tanks :(



Strappster #13 Posted 12 April 2018 - 11:30 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 23893 battles
  • 9,019
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    10-20-2015

View PostBezbel, on 12 April 2018 - 10:15 PM, said:

WG is afraid of light tanks :(

 

WG didn't want light tanks to be the default choice for high tiers. As mentioned above, make them more accurate and who'd play mediums if you could play a tank that's as hidden while it's moving as when it's stationary? Everyone would be picking the most armoured lights instead.

 

Another factor is that WN8 uses values pulled from WG's servers through its APIs to calculate its scores. Assist damage is not one of those values so WN8 is padded for damage done in a light tank to compensate. I doubt this figured highly on WG's assessment of lights but it's there nonetheless.

 

What's not working at the moment is that high tier mediums compete with lights on view range, so the point above gets flipped around. Why play a light if you can play a medium that's more accurate, has better armour and can see almost as far? Although that one has an answer - because the light is better for scouting. But who'd play a scout role if it means dropping WN8? You've got to want to play lights for that, not worry so much about numbers.



SnowRelic #14 Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:07 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 22820 battles
  • 589
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    11-14-2012

High tier lights tanks being better at scouting is quite debatable.

 

If WG had just stuck to predominantly keeping light HP, ammo capacity and dpm clearly below medium levels there would not have been any problems balancing. High tier lights could be buffed easily without impacting the game too much. But, oh noes! Some people might have fun, call the fun police!



Strappster #15 Posted 13 April 2018 - 02:37 AM

    General

  • Player
  • 23893 battles
  • 9,019
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    10-20-2015

View PostSnowRelic, on 12 April 2018 - 11:07 PM, said:

High tier lights tanks being better at scouting is quite debatable.

 

No it isn't. ;)

 

View PostSnowRelic, on 12 April 2018 - 11:07 PM, said:

If WG had just stuck to predominantly keeping light HP, ammo capacity and dpm clearly below medium levels there would not have been any problems balancing. High tier lights could be buffed easily without impacting the game too much. But, oh noes! Some people might have fun, call the fun police!

 

See, that's where I don't buy it. WG aren't run by idiots, they know a thing or two about balancing a game despite what some people like to claim. Why would they want to restrict the fun of their players? It's much more feasible that they realised the lights were too strong and people wouldn't play mediums during public test and scaled back the gun handling to prompt a more cautious approach.

 

Most of the guys who got the tier 10 lights first were the really good players who'd saved up their xp or ran power-grinds to get them so it's hardly surprising they were underwhelmed, they're used to leading from the front and were expecting to do the same with these lights only to find they were out-gunned.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #16 Posted 13 April 2018 - 03:17 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 29170 battles
  • 2,246
  • Member since:
    06-13-2015

View PostStrappster, on 13 April 2018 - 02:37 AM, said:

See, that's where I don't buy it. WG aren't run by idiots, they know a thing or two about balancing a game despite what some people like to claim. Why would they want to restrict the fun of their players? It's much more feasible that they realised the lights were too strong and people wouldn't play mediums during public test and scaled back the gun handling to prompt a more cautious approach.

 

This. Why would I play a 140 if I could play a tank that's competitive with a 140 and had insane speed, maneuverability and full camo on the move as well?

hopeasusi #17 Posted 13 April 2018 - 05:12 AM

    Sergeant

  • Beta Tester
  • 13029 battles
  • 218
  • Member since:
    11-24-2010

View PostNUKLEAR_SLUG, on 13 April 2018 - 04:17 AM, said:

 

This. Why would I play a 140 if I could play a tank that's competitive with a 140 and had insane speed, maneuverability and full camo on the move as well?

 

Umm, cause its different.

 

You just told everyone the problem with tier X light, why would you use one if they are not competitive?

 

All stats and unicums say the same thing, they are not competitive against tier X meds(the good ones).



Strappster #18 Posted 13 April 2018 - 06:41 AM

    General

  • Player
  • 23893 battles
  • 9,019
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    10-20-2015

View Posthopeasusi, on 13 April 2018 - 04:12 AM, said:

Umm, cause its different.

 

You just told everyone the problem with tier X light, why would you use one if they are not competitive?

 

All stats and unicums say the same thing, they are not competitive against tier X meds(the good ones).

 

Are you saying that people would play the standard 140 if a competitive and more mobile option with better camo was available on the basis that it's different?

 

I'm asking because you immediately follow that by saying that tier X lights are not competitive and asking why anyone would play one while completely ignoring that they're different because they're focused on scouting.



Simeon85 #19 Posted 13 April 2018 - 08:25 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 1097 battles
  • 2,997
  • Member since:
    04-19-2013

Tier 10 lights are weak and need a buff end off, WG's design concept for them is just plain stupid and is just another example of this current balancing teams bad performance.

 

These tanks were well balanced on sandbox test server, players spent many hours testing these tanks and giving their feedback, once we hit the final versions on sandbox it was pretty much universally agreed that the tier 10 lights were in a decent place. Then they went on public test, and WG butchered all the work those sandbox testers had done basically spitting in their face.

 

Lights tanks are supposed to snipe, because their attributes of mobility, camo, paper armour and low HP logically suggest that fighting at medium to long ranges is the best way to use them for most of the game until they can later game flank and isolate slower/turretless targets.

 

If you want to look at the impact of a paper, high camo, highly accurate and highly mobile tank, then look how many people don't play the Leopard 1. Even if lights were accurate there is no way most players would chose them over mediums, because mediums have armour, DPM etc. and are just generally more forgiving to play for most players.

 

Scouting in tier 10 games is valuable on about 3 maps and on those 3 maps mediums can do 90% of the job of lights, whilst being vastly better at actually doing damage, the stuff that actually consistently wins games. That leaves the tier 10 lights weak and pointless as a class and tanks.

 

Nerfing the view range of other tanks would not change that either.

 

The tier 10 lights need accuracy buffs, DPM buffs, pen drop off buffs, hit point buffs. They should be like mediums that trade some gun power, armour and hit points for increased mobility and camo, but at the moment they basically trade all their gun power for slightly better mobility and slightly better camo. 

 



Cobra6 #20 Posted 13 April 2018 - 08:40 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 16332 battles
  • 15,760
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    09-17-2010

Because Wargaming despises skill based classes like light tanks as they can easily take out dumb Steve the IS-7 driver sitting side-on to the enemy team in the middle of the field of Campinovka. Light tanks are not allowed to engage at range, they need to give away all their advantages (viewrange, camo) and go brawl with heavies to even the playing field for bad players.

 

That is why.

 

Forget about the fact that light tanks are a range based class, like TD's, since all their advantages are range based (camo, viewrange, mobility) but somehow their guns, especially at tier 10, are completely unsuitable for ranged engagements.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 13 April 2018 - 08:41 AM.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users