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vk 100.01 (p), prank tank?


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anunnak #1 Posted 04 January 2018 - 06:41 PM

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Hello,

 

I'we been playing this game since 2012 but this is the first time i post here and the thing that made me do it in the end is....vk 100.01 (p). I just have to ask, what the ... is this tank? I mean i like the Maus and i do ok in it, but this VK is just junk. I'we been reading ppl saying this is OP? at first i thought they are some of the usual whiners or beginners who are complaining, after that i took it as sarcasm?. Anyway...in the end i saw ppl were serious. Really guys? :) OP? This tank is "balanced" for tier 6/7 when it sees eight out of ten only tiers 9-10? Why would u "balance" (wink) the tank for 10% of the games? 

 

Let's discuss a little bit more in depth:

 

1) armor:

 

PRO - very good armor for side scrape

         - very good armor against tier 6-7

 

CON - FLAT and HUGE profile from the sides

         - Turret is very week for tier 8-10 basically for 80-90% of the games. Too big (like a coffin), frontal cheeks week (230 compared to e 75 or vk 40.02 ) + HUGE cupola.

         - You are a gold magnet  - almost no game without gold spammers on u (without cause in most cases).

         - You are arty magnet - in every game there's arty be sure ur gonna be focused or at least 70% of the times. U have no concealment and ur among the first to be spotted anyway.

 

2) Gun:

 

PRO - Good pen for tier 6-9 (-ish)

 

CON - Bad soft stats

         - Innacurate at long ranges, shells go wild often

         - For tier 9-10 u have to spam gold or use HE most of the times (as u cannot flank due to low speed)

 

3) Mobility

 

PRO - 0 

 

CON - 20 km? seriously? I think ppl who "balanced" it had the Maus in mind and wanted to prepare ppl for it. While it might work in tier 6-7 and 8 in fav condition, it DOESNT for tier 9-10 (the most common games u get in to). It doesnt work because it doesnt have the armor of the Maus or the Mauschen (BTW this tank - VK -  wasnt even that heavy armor wise according to wiki, it had 120 all arround).

Those tanks are balance ok in this regard because they have fantastic armor and mitigate dmg like a boss, VK can't do it effective against tier 9-10.

 

4) Internals

 

GOD ALL MIGHTY, "every" shot is an ammor rack. Seriously. What the ....? Did it really need that handicap to frustrate ppl? 

 

My conclusion:

 

This tank is balanced for tier 6-7 which are 10-15% of the games with little or no regard for 85% of the tiers it sees (8-10). It's slow, clumsy and has little effective armor for tiers above it. Adding more salt it's frustrating to play because u get arty focused, gold spammed (with no reason for the most part) and ammo racked too often and lets not forget the gun which is not very accurate at long ranges. To sum it up this tank gives with one hand and takes with the other, its ludicrous. It gives the impression that the ppl in charge with its balancing didnt know what to do with it.

 

Should get a turret with 230 frontal cheeks (+10), 25 km (+5) top speed, some buffs for the gun soft stats which are bad enough (frustrating to use at mid to long range) and for GOD'S sake do something about that ammo rack.

 

 


Edited by anunnak, 04 January 2018 - 06:46 PM.


brumbarr #2 Posted 04 January 2018 - 06:42 PM

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And this everyone is why this games balance is going to crap.

Jigabachi #3 Posted 04 January 2018 - 06:45 PM

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Sooo... you want to further buff one of the most broken tanks in the game. Awesome.

 

:rolleyes:



HundeWurst #4 Posted 04 January 2018 - 06:47 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 04 January 2018 - 06:42 PM, said:

And this everyone is why this games balance is going to crap.

 

Sums this thread up. Can be closed now. Nothing to see here guys.

Derethim #5 Posted 04 January 2018 - 06:48 PM

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What the hell are you taaaaalking about?

View Postanunnak, on 04 January 2018 - 06:41 PM, said:

 

PRO - Good Great pen for tier 6-*10

          - Alpha damage
          - Gun caliber (128mm)
          - Great aim-time for the alpha and pen

FTFY

Also..

View Postanunnak, on 04 January 2018 - 06:41 PM, said:

1) armor:

 

PRO - very good armor for side scrape

         - very good armor against tier 6-9*

         - easy to angle
         - cupola only pennable in the middle of it, which is a tiny strip

         - turret can't be penned in the cheecks without gold on a tier VIII tank/tier VII, if you have a good gun
 

It's broken for tier X games and overpowered on tier VIII and lower, please nerf it.

FTFY



anunnak #6 Posted 04 January 2018 - 06:50 PM

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Instead of making useless comments perhaps you people should share your wisdom and tell me why are my statements wrong? 

Derethim #7 Posted 04 January 2018 - 06:54 PM

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View Postanunnak, on 04 January 2018 - 06:50 PM, said:

Instead of making useless comments perhaps you people should share your wisdom and tell me why are my statements wrong? 

 

Look at the post I fixed up for you, but maybe you can understand this better.

Spoiler

A) Where is your weakspot on the cupola? There is none.

B) If you manage to hide your lfp, you are invincible to frontal fire, same if you sidescrape

C) Sides are also pretty thicc


Edited by Derethim, 04 January 2018 - 06:55 PM.


Axarn #8 Posted 04 January 2018 - 06:57 PM

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View PostDerethim, on 04 January 2018 - 06:54 PM, said:

 

Look at the post I fixed up for you, but maybe you can understand this better.

Spoiler

A) Where is your weakspot on the cupola? There is none.

B) If you manage to hide your lfp, you are invincible to frontal fire, same if you sidescrape

C) Sides are also pretty thicc

 

TL : DR

L2P


Edited by Axarn, 04 January 2018 - 06:57 PM.


anunnak #9 Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:00 PM

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View PostDerethim, on 04 January 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

 

Look at the post I fixed up for you, but maybe you can understand this better.

Spoiler

 

I already seen the armor values. Any more useful tips? The armor isnt the problme for this tank at tiers lower or same. The problem is it sees @80-90% tiers 9-10 whe the armor values are only viable in ideal conditions as it's too slow. The Maus can work with the speed it has because of much better armor values, this is a sort of a camel-horse hybrid which makes no sense as it is. It should either be made with lower armor values and higher speed or re-arange the stats so it wont be as conditioned by terrain (and MM) to do good in (not taking skill in account).


Edited by anunnak, 04 January 2018 - 07:25 PM.


brumbarr #10 Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:00 PM

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View Postanunnak, on 04 January 2018 - 06:50 PM, said:

Instead of making useless comments perhaps you people should share your wisdom and tell me why are my statements wrong? 

 

Basicly  that you cant balance a tank around it higher tier tanks. You balance it around the same tier tanks.

 

If we buff the vk  we also have to buff the other T8s to the same level, but then they are basicly T9 tanks, so then T7 tanks get completely Edited

 

View Postanunnak, on 04 January 2018 - 07:00 PM, said:

 

I already seen the armor values. Any more useful tips? The armor isnt the problme for this tank at tiers lower or same. The problem is it sees @80-90% tiers 9-10 whe the armor values are only viable in ideal conditions as it's too slow. The Maus can work with the speed it has because of much better armor values, this is a sort of a came-horse hybrid which makes no sense as it is. It should either be made with lower armor values and higher speed or re-arange the stats so it wont be as conditioned by terrain (and MM) to do good in (not taking skill in account).

 

And other tier8 tanks also have the same MM, so why should the VK be better than other same tier tanks?
 

Edited by VMX, 05 January 2018 - 10:54 AM.


anunnak #11 Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:04 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 04 January 2018 - 06:00 PM, said:

 

Basicly  that you cant balance a tank around it higher tier tanks. You balance it around the same tier tanks.

 

If we buff the vk  we also have to buff the other T8s to the same level, but then they are basicly T9 tanks, so then T7 tanks get completely Edited

 

Balancing a tank for the lower tiers it doesnt see in 80-90% of the games isnt a solution either. This tank shoudnt exist the way it is now, it makes it too good for tier 6-7 and bad for tier 9-10. Perhaps they should fix the mm so it can see lower tiers more often, @10% is too low and forces u to sweat at high tiers where u are for the most part innafective (most so if u get matched against good players).

 

"And other tier8 tanks also have the same MM, so why should the VK be better than other same tier tanks?"
 
Other tanks do much better against tier 8-9 then this VK. It has too many handicaps for high tier due to its "balancing" for low tiers imo.

 


Edited by VMX, 05 January 2018 - 11:40 AM.


brumbarr #12 Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:05 PM

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View Postanunnak, on 04 January 2018 - 07:04 PM, said:

 

Balancing a tank for the lower tiers it doesnt see in 80-90% of the games isnt a solution either. This tank shoudnt exist the way it is now, it makes it too good for tier 6-7 and bad for tier 9-10. Perhaps they should fix the mm so it can see lower tiers more often, @10% is too low and forces u to sweat at high tiers where u are for the most part innafective (most so if u get matched against good players).

 

So your solution is to make all tier8 tanks tier9 tanks?

Pandabird #13 Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:06 PM

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I'm running it with the stock gun.

Prefer faster reload when breaking through enemy lines. Also better dpm.

It is stupidly overpowered btw, bounced two E3 gold shells in a row in Paris.

I'm just using its armor when bottom tier, you can block off or hinder quite decently while baiting shots like no tomorrow.

anunnak #14 Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:12 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 04 January 2018 - 06:05 PM, said:

 

So your solution is to make all tier8 tanks tier9 tanks?

 

No, my solution is to make this tank with either lower armor values (as the project was historicaly according to wiki) and faster or give it slight buff to its speed, 5 km and  5 or 10(max) cm to the frontal cheeks. Can the whinning kids handle it? 5 km for speed? is that too much? u think the winrate is gonna explode on it cuz of it? :) It sees 80-90% of the games tier 9-10. Do u think its gonna matter for T 95, E 75, T-10, IS-7, JagdPanzer E 100 or Obj 268?

 

Oh, btw...it has 50.5% winrate according to http://www.vbaddict.net. Is this the winrate of an OP tank? The Maus has 51.5% for example.

 

@Pandabird

 

Those are very low instances cases. I doubt ur gonna bounce too much of E 3 from a competent player in mid to close range. :)


Edited by anunnak, 04 January 2018 - 07:20 PM.


UrQuan #15 Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:23 PM

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This tank has TX grade armor, coupled with a high alpha gun. Yes that gun has some gun handling problems, but you do have 440 alpha, meaning you don't have to expose your tank as much to shoot.

Sure it's slow, but it does have great viewrange.

The armor of the VK 100 still works against T9 tanks & even against quite some TX tanks, you just got to take more care in your play & learn about the various guns & map locations where you can let your tank strong points excel.

 

Imo, to make the tank more balanced, some of its (frontal) armor has to go (it has no weakspots, outside the standard LFP has less armor approach) to balance the armor better against T8 tanks (atm it's just too much) & a reduction in alpha & viewrange as well, in exchange for better gun handling & some increased speed (because yes 20km/h is frustratingly slow)

 

And you balance a tank for it's own tier, not to fight against a tier or two higher. Yes it is terrible that it meets ton of T9 & TX tanks, but so does every other T8 with normal MM.



RamRaid90 #16 Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:29 PM

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View Postanunnak, on 04 January 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

Instead of making useless comments perhaps you people should share your wisdom and tell me why are my statements wrong? 

 

Try not coming to the forums 6 months after a tank is introduced, to complain about a tank thats already been vastly complained about.

 

I'm fairly confident the VK will be nerfed eventually. Yes it's broken, yes it's overpowered.

 

It needs:

  • An accessible frontal weakspot (lower plate doesn't count) The Mauer has a machine gun port, this should have a slightly smaller one.
  • The cupola needs to be 180-190 effective, and slightly smaller to avoid making it too weak

 

That's it.


Edited by RamRaid90, 04 January 2018 - 07:32 PM.


brumbarr #17 Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:30 PM

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View Postanunnak, on 04 January 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

 

No, my solution is to make this tank with either lower armor values (as the project was historicaly according to wiki) and faster or give it slight buff to its speed, 5 km and  5 or 10(max) cm to the frontal cheeks. Can the whinning kids handle it? 5 km for speed? is that too much? u think the winrate is gonna explode on it cuz of it? :) It sees 80-90% of the games tier 9-10. Do u think its gonna matter for T 95, E 75, T-10, IS-7, JagdPanzer E 100 or Obj 268?

 

Oh, btw...it has 50.5% winrate according to http://www.vbaddict.net. Is this the winrate of an OP tank? The Maus has 51.5% for example.

 

@Pandabird

 

Those are very low instances cases. I doubt ur gonna bounce too much of E 3 from a competent player in mid to close range. :)

 

so what about the other tier8 tank who get the exact same MM?

anunnak #18 Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:31 PM

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View PostUrQuan, on 04 January 2018 - 06:23 PM, said:

This tank has TX grade armor, coupled with a high alpha gun. Yes that gun has some gun handling problems, but you do have 440 alpha, meaning you don't have to expose your tank as much to shoot.

Sure it's slow, but it does have great viewrange.

The armor of the VK 100 still works against T9 tanks & even against quite some TX tanks, you just got to take more care in your play & learn about the various guns & map locations where you can let your tank strong points excel.

 

Imo, to make the tank more balanced, some of its (frontal) armor has to go (it has no weakspots, outside the standard LFP has less armor approach) to balance the armor better against T8 tanks (atm it's just too much) & a reduction in alpha & viewrange as well, in exchange for better gun handling & some increased speed (because yes 20km/h is frustratingly slow)

 

And you balance a tank for it's own tier, not to fight against a tier or two higher. Yes it is terrible that it meets ton of T9 & TX tanks, but so does every other T8 with normal MM.

 

It has good armor for certain scenarios, it fares well in town where it cannot get flanked for ex but not against tier 9-10 as the turret cheeks and cupola are penned easily by high tier tanks. This is what im saying. This tank should either be made with lower armor values and faster or it should have some of the stats reworked for example a +5 in speed. It is too frustrating to play against tier 9-10 which it sees in most games. Or at least work on the mm so it sees tiers in a more balanced way.

Balc0ra #19 Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:35 PM

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View Postanunnak, on 04 January 2018 - 07:12 PM, said:

 

No, my solution is to make this tank with either lower armor values (as the project was historicaly according to wiki) and faster or give it slight buff to its speed, 5 km and  5 or 10(max) cm to the frontal cheeks. Can the whinning kids handle it? 5 km for speed? is that too much? u think the winrate is gonna explode on it cuz of it? :) It sees 80-90% of the games tier 9-10. Do u think its gonna matter for T 95, E 75, T-10, IS-7, JagdPanzer E 100 or Obj 268?

 

Well that did not help the new tier 8 German prem HT. It has "lower armor" values. And even with a faster speed. It's still trash and easy to pen even for a tier 6 head on. VK 100.01 might not see top tier games 80% of the time. But still that frontal armor and 220mm weakspots is still more them most higher tiers he faces have. And like most super heaves, speed is not gonna make them more OP, speed is not what gets them killed. It's the lack of traverse normally. And even if it went 5 km/h faster. It would bleed that speed like the new French tier 8 HT when you turn for it to matter at all. Making the armor trade off seem even more worthless I suspect.  Not that it's gonna help if you get caught in the open. 

anunnak #20 Posted 04 January 2018 - 07:36 PM

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@RamRaid90

 

 The tank might be OP against tier 6-7, not against tier 9-10 which sees in 80-90% of the games.

 

@brumbarr

 

The other tanks fare much better against tier 9-10. I would take IS-3, Tiger 2 (although power creep didnt do good to it) or VK 45 P anytime instead of this in a tier 9-10 game. At least in is - 3 the armor "works" for me and the tiger 2 and vk have mobility.

 

 


Edited by anunnak, 04 January 2018 - 07:37 PM.





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