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GoldAmmo Limit?

Gold Ammo Premium ammunition

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Evokuutio #1 Posted 05 January 2018 - 01:54 AM

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We all love and hate "gold" ammo. How about if gold ammo would have limit, as in how much you can load it. Something like 10% etc. We all use premium ammo to pen those pesky heavy tanks but now days it seems that more and more players are spamming premium ammo only. Most of us are average players and trying to complete those heavy tank mission is getting ridiculous at best. Trying to block 8-12k dmg is quite hard when armor is like butter vs premium ammo. You can be lucky to bounce 1-2 k in a game. Sure some tanks with side scraping can bounce even premium ammo but if you don't get that ideal map with ideal players who are willing to shoot at you round after round you will be stuck weeks and sometimes months on missions. And what joy is there to play heavy tanks when you know that 8 / 10 games your armor will not protect you at all. Sure Wg has buffed some armor values but it doesn't help when premium ammo still goes through easily. Why would anyone bother to learn weak spots, try to flank or use tactics when you can just hit the "2" key and solve your problems. I know there are tanks with good turret armor like is7 etc but even with those you will need to get that map with good hull down positions and enemies that are willing to spam your turret and not just go and shoot something else. So limiting amount of premium ammo tanks could carry "might" force players to think and learn where to shoot and make heavy tanks viable option to play in the tier 8 - 10. 

 

 



yun9 #2 Posted 05 January 2018 - 03:09 AM

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Gold ammo isn't the issue right now. It's how WG designs armour layouts. Once that problem goes away (unpennable tanks for standard ammo but fairly soft for gold ammo) then the problem of gold ammo can be adressed. The funniest thing is that most people in the unbalanced tanks also shoot gold very generously. I can't even remember the last time someone hit me with a Type 5 HE shell that wasn't gold. The HEAT/AP ratio in the E 100 is also much closer than people think. And the AP still got a buff. 

 

Armour is currently valued at a weird rate in the game. It really helps with winning games but the newer tanks and their armour layouts have done a number in powercreeping their entire tier. The only thing limiting gold ammo would do right now is make those heavies even more overpowered. I don't know about you but the fact that a Type can lock an entire lane down because nobody can pen it along with the Type itself running an HE gun that basically doesn't care what he's shooting at is pretty damn broken, don't you think?



KLguns #3 Posted 05 January 2018 - 07:01 AM

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On the other hand I was thinking about going all gold on all of my tanks using APCR as prem ammo, cause why not, I dont have anything else to do with the money since WG dont introduce new lines and nations to spend the money on...

SABAOTH #4 Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:03 AM

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View PostKLguns, on 05 January 2018 - 07:01 AM, said:

On the other hand I was thinking about going all gold on all of my tanks using APCR as prem ammo, cause why not, I dont have anything else to do with the money since WG dont introduce new lines and nations to spend the money on...

 

You can change names of every crew member in your tanks for just few golds! :girl:

KLguns #5 Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:31 AM

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View PostSABAOTH, on 05 January 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

 

You can change names of every crew member in your tanks for just few golds! :girl:

 

Not real money or gold, ingame credits ofc...

SABAOTH #6 Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:41 AM

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View PostKLguns, on 05 January 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

 

Not real money or gold, ingame credits ofc...

 

Well italian tanks are coming, you can use the credits for the new mechanics "bribe RNG"

Balc0ra #7 Posted 05 January 2018 - 08:59 AM

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View PostEvokuutio, on 05 January 2018 - 01:54 AM, said:

 So limiting amount of premium ammo tanks could carry "might" force players to think and learn where to shoot and make heavy tanks viable option to play in the tier 8 - 10.

 

No it will force players to turn tail and run vs fight in the current meta. Or it will go back to the old tactic of HE spam. Or HT's to go the medium lane because "they have a Maus". And in the age of super heavies, most guns can't even pen them head on with 25% high rolls on normal ammo. So how do you suggest they learn where to shoot, when there is no where on the tank they can pen? Or when your team has an IS-6 as top tier, and they have the 100.01. Your IS-6 can't even deal with their VK on his "weakspots" even if he high rolls with AP. Even less if they limit the gold ammo load he can use. And he don't have enough to even take half his HP off, as his gold pen is still 3mm lower then his weakspots.

 

That and it might also scare more new players away vs helping, as they might think they can't fight anything vs forcing them to learn. As we have seen before when tier III faced tier 5. As even running full gold on your tier III's still gave you zero chance to pen the KV-1 even on the rear lower plate or side on more then half of them. So they gave up and left vs learning.



ZlatanArKung #8 Posted 05 January 2018 - 10:13 AM

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Premium ammo should be free until WG fix their stupid armour layout.

TungstenHitman #9 Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:04 AM

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Strange thing, it never actually bothered me lol. I can genuinely say that while I'm playing, there is too much happening and going on to notice that the only reason I got penned is because the other player is using premiammo and just assumed they are aiming at my weak spots or just penned me because their tank can and I just react if I can by trying to get better cover... I never actually think "wow what a gold spamming edited word" 

 

Limit the amount per tank or number used? Ya I toyed with the notion too but it tbh there are so many variables. As mentioned in other comments, there are tanks with hilariously unpennable armor that when top tier and also using premiammo, become the most broken tank you ever encounter just.. the worst game breaker possible BUT on the flip side of that, there are tanks as bottom tier that -2 or even just tanks that have suckass standard AP values that will simply be pretty much hopeless to compete if they don't heavily lean on the usage of premiammo.

 

So it would be fair on some and unfair on others and realistically very very difficult if not impossible to implement a "one rule for all" sort of rectification towards this ammo. Some tanks still can't pen another tank even with premiammo for example when a T34 85 encounters an IS3, loads gold and shoots his lower plate weak spot, that's not going through(shoot the roof noob)).. you get the point, bad example lol.

 

think their price is an limiting factor, you can shoot nothing but premium ammo all day long BUT it will massively hurt your stacks. What do I do? I don't spam it but I do carry enough per tank to take out another tank or two should the need arise, never lose an epic game because you can't pen that final couple of tanks, would you forgive yourself? Also, I pick one or two "gold only" tanks that I just stock heavily with gold and play them rarely, a "gold only" tank and so I can't play this tank all the time because it would kill me but I make credits playing other tanks and then when I feel like it, I take that gold spammer out for a run



K_A #10 Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:13 AM

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View PostTungstenHitman, on 05 January 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

Strange thing, it never actually bothered me lol. I can genuinely say that while I'm playing, there is too much happening and going on to notice that the only reason I got penned is because the other player is using premiammo and just assumed they are aiming at my weak spots or just penned me because their tank can and I just react if I can by trying to get better cover... I never actually think "wow what a gold spamming edited word" 

 

Limit the amount per tank or number used? Ya I toyed with the notion too but it tbh there are so many variables. As mentioned in other comments, there are tanks with hilariously unpennable armor that when top tier and also using premiammo, become the most broken tank you ever encounter just.. the worst game breaker possible BUT on the flip side of that, there are tanks as bottom tier that -2 or even just tanks that have suckass standard AP values that will simply be pretty much hopeless to compete if they don't heavily lean on the usage of premiammo.

 

So it would be fair on some and unfair on others and realistically very very difficult if not impossible to implement a "one rule for all" sort of rectification towards this ammo. Some tanks still can't pen another tank even with premiammo for example when a T34 85 encounters an IS3, loads gold and shoots his lower plate weak spot, that's not going through(shoot the roof noob)).. you get the point, bad example lol.

 

think their price is an limiting factor, you can shoot nothing but premium ammo all day long BUT it will massively hurt your stacks. What do I do? I don't spam it but I do carry enough per tank to take out another tank or two should the need arise, never lose an epic game because you can't pen that final couple of tanks, would you forgive yourself? Also, I pick one or two "gold only" tanks that I just stock heavily with gold and play them rarely, a "gold only" tank and so I can't play this tank all the time because it would kill me but I make credits playing other tanks and then when I feel like it, I take that gold spammer out for a run

 

I'm the same. I might sometimes notice a sizzle, but I never mind someone shooting gold at me because I too shoot gold back at whoever I deem necessary. Just assume the enemy has the ability to shoot gold and act accordingly, never expect the T-54 to ping away with AP never getting through your armour.

 

Limiting gold would have a devastating effect on global tank balance, because some tanks are really balanced around them being able to dab the 2-key, while others will basically be unaffected because either their base pen is already stupid high, or the penetration gain from switching is negligible at best. 



TungstenHitman #11 Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:17 AM

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View PostK_A, on 05 January 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

 

I'm the same. I might sometimes notice a sizzle, but I never mind someone shooting gold at me because I too shoot gold back at whoever I deem necessary. Just assume the enemy has the ability to shoot gold and act accordingly, never expect the T-54 to ping away with AP never getting through your armour.

 

Limiting gold would have a devastating effect on global tank balance, because some tanks are really balanced around them being able to dab the 2-key, while others will basically be unaffected because either their base pen is already stupid high, or the penetration gain from switching is negligible at best. 

 

Ya and tbh I'm not bothered at all if someone is spamming gold at me it was never an issue for me in fact if anything I'm flattered that someone deemed it necessary to blow 80k credits on little ol me because I never feel I would be that much of a thread worth the credits lol so to all those who shot me with gold, I thank you, feels good :)

SirTogII #12 Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:24 AM

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It would just mess with the performance of certain tanks but do nothing about the underlying problem. As mentioned in 100 other threads, WG can’t balance heavies and armoured meds/tds against 2 completely different penetration numbers. It ends up with broken tanks that are balanced against gold ammo and invulnerable against regular shells if they’re somewhat competent.


Geno1isme #13 Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:33 AM

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Limits simply don't work due to different ammo capacities and effectiveness on each tank. For most meds or lights 10% is way too little, for some heavies it might already be too high. Unless you specify a separate limit for each tank, in which case you better rebalance prem ammo directly for the same amount of work.

View Postyun9, on 05 January 2018 - 04:09 AM, said:

Gold ammo isn't the issue right now. It's how WG designs armour layouts. Once that problem goes away (unpennable tanks for standard ammo but fairly soft for gold ammo) then the problem of gold ammo can be adressed.

Hen-Egg problem. We only got those armour layouts because of the prem-ammo issue in the first place.



butch_bs #14 Posted 05 January 2018 - 12:11 PM

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Don't know about quota, but what about gold ammo takes 2 ammo slots?

AliceUnchained #15 Posted 05 January 2018 - 01:32 PM

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So much originality... Next time just use the Search function. Didn't bother reading the actual post in the end, as you couldn't be bothered to divide your text properly into (sub)sections. It just looks like one long string, but on closer examination turns out to be a number of sentences randomly added one after another. Please try not only to construct sections (paragraphs) but also hustle your sentences in a more coherent manner.

brumbarr #16 Posted 05 January 2018 - 02:04 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 05 January 2018 - 11:33 AM, said:

 

Hen-Egg problem. We only got those armour layouts because of the prem-ammo issue in the first place.

Not really, its just WG solving a problem with something that makes no sense.

 

Armour was useless because gold ammo =>  wargaming makes armour imune to standard rounds => now  goldspam is required.

 

It makes no sense, they only amplified the problem. 

What they should have done is make armour both weaker and stronger, make the strong areas stronger so they wont be penned with prem ammo. But make the weaker areas weaker so they are pennable with standard.

Than you would have a game where shootign gold or not wouldnt matter much.



Geno1isme #17 Posted 05 January 2018 - 02:05 PM

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View Postbutch_bs, on 05 January 2018 - 01:11 PM, said:

Don't know about quota, but what about gold ammo takes 2 ammo slots?

 

Again, due to very different armor layouts that would be mostly irrelevant for some tanks (e.g. Maus, jap. Heavies) as they carry more ammo than they can every use in a single battle, but would completely cripple some other tanks with very limited ammo capacity and mediocre guns like many mediums and lights.

 

View Postbrumbarr, on 05 January 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

Armour was useless because gold ammo =>  wargaming makes armour imune to standard rounds => now  goldspam is required.

 

Precisely. If prem-ammo wouldn't just be flat better than regular ammo in 95% of all cases but had some actually relevant drawback like lower alpha damage, longer reload times, less accuracy, chance to damage your gun/ammo rack, ... then even the retarded armor changes would likely have resulted in a more varied gameplay rather than "just press 2".

 

The problem or armor was not that it was too weak, but prem ammo being too easy to use.


Edited by Geno1isme, 05 January 2018 - 02:14 PM.


vasilinhorulezz #18 Posted 05 January 2018 - 02:11 PM

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So original.

AliceUnchained #19 Posted 05 January 2018 - 02:15 PM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 05 January 2018 - 02:04 PM, said:

Not really, its just WG solving a problem with something that makes no sense.

 

Armour was useless because gold ammo =>  wargaming makes armour imune to standard rounds => now  goldspam is required.

 

It makes no sense, they only amplified the problem. 

What they should have done is make armour both weaker and stronger, make the strong areas stronger so they wont be penned with prem ammo. But make the weaker areas weaker so they are pennable with standard.

Than you would have a game where shootign gold or not wouldnt matter much. 

 

Exactly. And further exacerbated by the corridor short range brawl meta enforced on us by map designs (and changes to existing maps). Although one could argue that actually came first, which then lead to an increase in premium ammo usage, which lead to all the outcries and Wargaming responding with all the armor boosts and release of new no-weak spot vehicles.

OneSock #20 Posted 05 January 2018 - 02:28 PM

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Rather than limit gold ammo, just make it so you have to pay full ammo replacement value if you get ammo racked ! :trollface:




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