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FF and I don't blame him one bit


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Gremlin182 #1 Posted 05 January 2018 - 10:39 PM

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Just been shot twice by a teammate in his E100 I blew up he became a smurf.

I messaged him at the end of the game said I understood why he did it and good luck.

Weird I know but here's the thing I was camping not just regular camping I basically just gave up on the entire game 2 minutes in.

 

Lakeville encounter and this is what the team did.

E100 headed for the town, Skorpion BC25AP and I think BC12t took the path above the lake.

ALL others either set up to snipe the 2 line or pushed the 2 line, all 10 of them.

That's an E50M,  OBJ 261,  Emil II,  ST1,  Leopard PTA,  OBJ 704,   IS3,  Lowe,  T34,  VK100 01P,  and of course me in my AMX 65t.

 

Given the enemy team sent nearly everything into the town and began capping I really doubt the E100 or I could have done anything but die pretty fast.

Yes camping is wrong but I am so very very tired of being the part of the team that actually goes into the town on this map while the rest try to cross the ridge on the 2 line usually all die but sometimes manage to fight their way to the enemy start position after the rest of the team are dead.

 

Its frustrating because there isn't really any point in that 2 line back road valley or whatever you call it.

Its like the beach on overlord it cuts you off from the battle you cannot do anything useful to support the team.

Its especially a poor idea on encounter.

Rant over dirty camper signing off ;)

 

 



znapper74 #2 Posted 06 January 2018 - 03:27 AM

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If the valley falls, it will be hell to pay.

 

There should always be a 3-4 tank-mix + 1 arty covering the 2 line since you protect your own rear + arty and may take theirs.

-  it also bind up resources of the enemy team.

 

 

Though, the goal should always be to get up and over that ridge, not sit an camp like a bunch of scardy-pantsies.


Edited by znapper74, 06 January 2018 - 03:28 AM.


Desyatnik_Pansy #3 Posted 06 January 2018 - 03:44 AM

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View Postznapper74, on 06 January 2018 - 02:27 AM, said:

If the valley falls, it will be hell to pay.

 

There should always be a 3-4 tank-mix + 1 arty covering the 2 line since you protect your own rear + arty and may take theirs.

-  it also bind up resources of the enemy team.

 

 

Though, the goal should always be to get up and over that ridge, not sit an camp like a bunch of scardy-pantsies.

 

I'm not sure I fully agree, though it entirely depends on team set-ups and whatnot. I think a single tank with a strong turret and maybe a camping TD/arty in the back could basically hold it so long as he's neither too aggressive there, nor are the enemy. It doesn't even necessarily have to be a top tier, a T34 For example could be pretty good for holding it with support in a Tier IX Game. And even if he gets swarmed by something like 6-7 Enemy tanks and destroyed, the valley is lost, unless this happens very early on or the city group aren't being aggressive enough, it's not too hard to stop the enemies pouring out of the valley with atleast a few tanks out of their viewrange and someone spotting them.

 

Valley is not as stupid as it was ages ago IMO (I recall someone else saying that a few times as well), but it's definitely still not somewhere to waste tanks, especially top tiers, for a useless game of who has the stronger turret.



ZlatanArKung #4 Posted 06 January 2018 - 03:48 AM

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View Postznapper74, on 06 January 2018 - 03:27 AM, said:

If the valley falls, it will be hell to pay.

 

There should always be a 3-4 tank-mix + 1 arty covering the 2 line since you protect your own rear + arty and may take theirs.

-  it also bind up resources of the enemy team.

 

 

Though, the goal should always be to get up and over that ridge, not sit an camp like a bunch of scardy-pantsies.

I have no problem sacrificing Valley if it means a secured town area.

It is not like you can push out of Valley towards town if the other team has 3 decent players defending it.



znapper74 #5 Posted 06 January 2018 - 03:59 AM

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The problem with ignoring the valley, is that the city-squad quickly will be sandwiched, plus get a bunch of enemy arty in the head and it happens really quick too.

 

Sure, the whole team could just run to the town and try and take the flag, but it rarely/never happens on the public servers.

Then you suddenly need to deal with a weak cap-squad and so on, which demands that the team hopefully gets evenly/smartly spread, to delay outflanking maneuvers or take the enemy artillery/td's.

 

 

It's allowed to read the map too, I have left valley on many occasions and moved to the city, seeing the lop-side.


Edited by znapper74, 06 January 2018 - 04:01 AM.


Laur_Balaur_XD #6 Posted 06 January 2018 - 05:14 AM

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View Postznapper74, on 06 January 2018 - 02:27 AM, said:

If the valley falls, it will be hell to pay.

 

There should always be a 3-4 tank-mix + 1 arty covering the 2 line since you protect your own rear + arty and may take theirs.

-  it also bind up resources of the enemy team.

 

 

Though, the goal should always be to get up and over that ridge, not sit an camp like a bunch of scardy-pantsies.

 

This is one of the reasons you have 47% winrate bro. I bet you go on the beach on the Overlord....

imperiumgraecum #7 Posted 06 January 2018 - 05:33 AM

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View Postznapper74, on 06 January 2018 - 04:27 AM, said:

If the valley falls, it will be hell to pay.

 

There should always be a 3-4 tank-mix + 1 arty covering the 2 line since you protect your own rear + arty and may take theirs.

-  it also bind up resources of the enemy team.

 

 

Though, the goal should always be to get up and over that ridge, not sit an camp like a bunch of scardy-pantsies.

 

Clearly you 've never played CW/Skirmishes in Lakeville.............

znapper74 #8 Posted 06 January 2018 - 06:18 AM

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View PostIulian_ro, on 06 January 2018 - 05:14 AM, said:

 

This is one of the reasons you have 47% winrate bro. I bet you go on the beach on the Overlord....

 

I was waiting for the stat-smacking, amazed it didn't happen sooner.

 

Now try again, with actual arguments.



znapper74 #9 Posted 06 January 2018 - 06:22 AM

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View Postimperiumgraecum, on 06 January 2018 - 05:33 AM, said:

 

Clearly you 've never played CW/Skirmishes in Lakeville.............

 

No, no clanwars at least I am not talking about that, and I don't think OP is talking about it either.

The luxury of actual coherent teams and tactics changes the game completely.

I am talking about your average game here, where no one, for the most part, is playing after the same tune.
Concentrating on the city alone is stupid on public servers, since there will, without exceptions, be enemy tanks in the valley, waiting to come up and flank from behind, always.


Edited by znapper74, 06 January 2018 - 06:28 AM.


imperiumgraecum #10 Posted 06 January 2018 - 06:31 AM

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View Postznapper74, on 06 January 2018 - 07:22 AM, said:

 

No, no clanwars at least I am not talking about that, and I don't think OP is talking about it either.

The luxury of actual coherent teams and tactics changes the game completely.

I am talking about your average game here, where no one, for the most part, is playing after the same tune.
Concentrating on the city alone is stupid on public servers, since there will, without exceptions, be enemy tanks in the valley, waiting to come up and flank from behind, always.

 

If there is a viable tactic in competitive modes, it's viable in randoms as well.

Gremlin182 #11 Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:23 AM

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I find a delaying force on the valley is useful and of course if the enemy are not that good you can roll the valley.

Its just that on encounter if they all pile into the town they can probably cap out or wipe out the few tanks we sent.

 

For me on Encounter its all into the town SPGs and TDs are quite capable of covering the rear and even in normal mode its difficult for a force coming along the valley to cap as its just so open.

 



CoDiGGo #12 Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:35 AM

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View Postznapper74, on 06 January 2018 - 03:27 AM, said:

If the valley falls, it will be hell to pay.

 

There should always be a 3-4 tank-mix + 1 arty covering the 2 line since you protect your own rear + arty and may take theirs.

-  it also bind up resources of the enemy team.

 

 

Though, the goal should always be to get up and over that ridge, not sit an camp like a bunch of scardy-pantsies.

 

Lakeville encounter. 15 enemy players rush city, cap and cover cap... still think "There should always be a 3-4 tank-mix + 1 arty covering the 2 line" ?

ZlatanArKung #13 Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:27 AM

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View Postznapper74, on 06 January 2018 - 03:59 AM, said:

The problem with ignoring the valley, is that the city-squad quickly will be sandwiched, plus get a bunch of enemy arty in the head and it happens really quick too.

 

Sure, the whole team could just run to the town and try and take the flag, but it rarely/never happens on the public servers.

Then you suddenly need to deal with a weak cap-squad and so on, which demands that the team hopefully gets evenly/smartly spread, to delay outflanking maneuvers or take the enemy artillery/td's.

 

 

It's allowed to read the map too, I have left valley on many occasions and moved to the city, seeing the lop-side.

The city squad will not get sandwiched, since it is very easy to prevent.

 

From either side, you get some TD camping mid road. Then put 1 tank further away that can snipe cap area on standard maps. And any move out from Valley becomes costly. And that thing is very easy to set up.

 

Also, you don't gain much/anything from winning Valley on encounter.

 

If you want to be really serious, put 1 spotter there to see when enemy tanks approach.

 

Stats are kind of important,  because they say how good, on average, you are on WoT tactics.

The higher WR you have, the better WoT tactician you are.



Mimos_A #14 Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:30 AM

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View Postznapper74, on 06 January 2018 - 06:18 AM, said:

 

I was waiting for the stat-smacking, amazed it didn't happen sooner.

 

Now try again, with actual arguments.

 

Okay: having a 3 to 4 tank mix and an arty pissing about in an area where they can't have any crossfire and can be held back by one or two guys for ages, moving awkwardly over soft terrain while contesting an insignificant area that's easy to defend by a few guys paying attention and turning their turrets when lost is a terrible idea.

 

In short, the same reason why the beach on Overlord is for morons, you waste tanks and time contesting an area that gives you no map control or good crossfires.


Edited by Mimos_A, 06 January 2018 - 10:33 AM.


Stimpeltje #15 Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:50 AM

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Few things can happen when a bunch of morons go valley

 

They win the valley +  battle is lost => they did good because they won the valley, city lost the battle

They win the valley +  battle is won => they did good because they won the valley and the battle

They win the valley +  battle is won => they did good because the battle is won

They lose the valley + battle is lost: in this case mostly city and middle have fallen way faster and the valley donkeys get sandwiched. Battle isnt lost because people went valley, but because the city failed (first)

 

Same can be said about beach on overlord.

 

As u see, most of the time valley morons will think they did good. Hence they keep doing it.


Edited by Stimpeltje, 06 January 2018 - 10:51 AM.


jabster #16 Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:06 AM

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View Postznapper74, on 06 January 2018 - 05:18 AM, said:

 

I was waiting for the stat-smacking, amazed it didn't happen sooner.

 

Now try again, with actual arguments.

 

It may have been somewhat harsh but they do have a slight point. When it comes down to the nitty greater of how to play the game the skill of a player does become relevant. Now it could be that you actually have a very good tactical understanding and it’s the good and very good players that are wrong. Well it’s possibly but not that likely is it?

 

All that’s really being said is that concentrating on winning the city while defending the valley is the strategy that is most likely to result in a win. Even I can see that makes sense. That doesn’t mean that randoms will always play out like that of course and maybe that’s where the better players could be more helpful. What is the best thing to do if half your team goes to the valley for example? 



RamRaid90 #17 Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:08 AM

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View Postznapper74, on 06 January 2018 - 02:27 AM, said:

If the valley falls, it will be hell to pay.

 

There should always be a 3-4 tank-mix + 1 arty covering the 2 line since you protect your own rear + arty and may take theirs.

-  it also bind up resources of the enemy team.

 

 

Though, the goal should always be to get up and over that ridge, not sit an camp like a bunch of scardy-pantsies.

 

Not at all. The valley should be ignored in the first instance of the game. It is a waste of time since the ground is soft and most tanks will perform horribly there. THe best option is for one TD to camp the back of it and spot those stupid enough to venture.

 

Lakeville is almost exclusively lost because of that damn valley.

 

I'll give you a hint, if going down a flank means you cannot fire on the other 75% of the map, it's ALWAYS a bad idea. The whole idea ofthe game, and the reason unicums win so much is cross fire (amonsgt other things of course) If you can create an area where fire can come from more than one direction you will almost always win because no tank can use it's strongest armour when it has fire coming from multiple directions. This will allow the town to push if they have become stagnant.

 

Take Prok as an example.

You will almost exclusively see the best players going into the middle, since they can fire at any of the flanks with decent gun depression. This creates a situation where the hill side cannot push because they will be cross fired.

Good players won't camp at the back of, or on, the hill. The same as they won't camp on the 1 and 2 lines of the map.

 


Edited by RamRaid90, 06 January 2018 - 11:15 AM.


Strappster #18 Posted 06 January 2018 - 01:58 PM

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Valley pushes fail because players stop at the ridge and try to peek. If players would push over and accept they're going to take a couple of hits, it's usually enough to win that side and push through to the enemy spawn. The trouble is finding players willing to take a couple of hits, most seem to want someone else to be shot so they can peek and pull back.

DracheimFlug #19 Posted 06 January 2018 - 03:59 PM

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View Postimperiumgraecum, on 06 January 2018 - 06:31 AM, said:

 

If there is a viable tactic in competitive modes, it's viable in randoms as well.

 

If it requires any significant level of cooperation, the viability in randoms is likely just theoretical.... 

Gremlin182 #20 Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:19 PM

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When I was doing SPG personal missions I loved this map, it would be even better now given bigger splash radius and Stun.




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