Jump to content


Out of meta tanks


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

ZlatanArKung #1 Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:11 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 1529 battles
  • 5,112
  • Member since:
    12-20-2014

Since I have played quite a few weird tanks and 3 marked them.

 

I just think I found the most out of meta T7 tank in the AMX M4 45.

 

Now you might wonder why this beautiful beast is so out of meta.

 

1:  It gets worse MM than other T7 heavies (not tin foil).

Why?

 

It gets weighted as a heavy, like O-Ni, IS, T29, KV-3 etc. Which creates 1 big difference.

These tanks have either armour and/or high alpha, the AMX have neither.

So while these other heavy tanks can work on the heavy flank and bounce etc even as bottom tier, the AMX can't. 

I have had good blocking damage games recently in Tiger P, KV-3 and VK 45.02 which are my most recent 3 marking T7 heavy experiences.

These tanks can have an impact and be an obstacle to enemy heavies. Something the AMX M4 45 can't.

This means your heavy flank will always be at an disadvantage, due to matchmaking.

And it is not fast or good enough to be medium, due to slow speed, slower then IS.

 

2: The attributes it have, doesnt fit into current map pool or meta. 

It has 300 alpha, which is OK, 10 degrees of gun depression, also OK, ok turret armour. But gunhandling sucks, which leads to long exposure time anyway. 

And most important, having OK attributes over many areas doesnt fit current meta. In current meta you need GOOD stats on some areas and trade them for bad in others, just like Jap heavies, or VK100P.

A tank, like AMX, that is mediocre on many things just doesn't fit.

 

How to make it decent in current meta?

Give it 1 area where it is really good.

Examples:

Mobility to 45 with better hp/t.

Or.

Better gun handling.

Or.

Higher dpm, say 2400.

 

 

My stats in it after grind is horrendous in 1 area.

 

WR: 53% (terrible).

Dpg: 1527 (ok).

Spot/game: 1.12 (ok)

Enemy tanks destroyed/game: 1.41 (ok)

Assistance: 345 (ok)

MoE: 95.61% (ok)

Only using 105mm gun and almost no premium shells. Thinking about testing the top 90 mm gun, but it just seems worse. 90 mm doesn't overmatch Strv S1, and some other tanks. It has same Aimtime, a little better accuracy and 15% less dpm.

 

I think that the low WR is due to it being our of meta, especially for the MM. It is simply matched as a heavy while it can't perform any of the actions of a heavy, thus leaving it's team 1 heavy down.

 

Let's see if I can get it to 60%+ WR. It should be doable, I just have to play it like a slow medium.

 

Not recommended.

 

2nd worst T7 heavy I have played, only FV201(A45) is worse.



Slyspy #2 Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:18 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 14202 battles
  • 16,695
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-07-2011
The tank which has always been a worse version of the Tiger is hardly being done over by the current meta. It has always been the underdog. 

ZlatanArKung #3 Posted 06 January 2018 - 02:46 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 1529 battles
  • 5,112
  • Member since:
    12-20-2014

View PostSlyspy, on 06 January 2018 - 02:18 AM, said:

The tank which has always been a worse version of the Tiger is hardly being done over by the current meta. It has always been the underdog. 

I don't think it is worse then a Tiger.

It has better mobility, 300 alpha and 10 degrees of gun depression and a turret that sometimes bounce stuff.

 

Tiger I is also pretty bad in current meta. But it have 1 good feature, good dpm and good gun.

Which covers its many flaws.

 

The AMX lack 1 good feature, has a few flaws, but most stats are just mediocre.



spamhamstar #4 Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:03 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 64310 battles
  • 1,523
  • [LLAY] LLAY
  • Member since:
    12-02-2012

I haven't played the AMX since I groud my way thru it years ago & tbh I thought it was pretty meh back then.  I wouldn't have trusted my judgement on whether a tank was good or not back then tho.  As you say, nothing stands out to make it special.  I've improved a little since then, but I'm fairly sure nothings improved for the AMX & due to power creep I'd expect it to be performing worse than when I played it, especially as it'll be facing a whole host of OP new tier 8 prem heavies that seem to be the latest craze.

 

I quite liked the tiger 1, so I have to ask, are you a reroll? :P



Archaean #5 Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:10 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 15179 battles
  • 1,181
  • [S4LT] S4LT
  • Member since:
    04-25-2015
all squishy tanks are out of meta - done.

PointZero #6 Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:27 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 43425 battles
  • 1,097
  • Member since:
    02-03-2011
The abysmal gun handling is a relic from the time the devs thought some tanks should play the "sniper support role" in a way the M4 45 has always been the Panther of heavy tanks and having to sit still and fully aim every shot in a tank that is the size of the M4 45 is never going to work well with the corridor & armor meta.

truoste #7 Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:27 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 38045 battles
  • 1,365
  • Member since:
    08-20-2013

View PostZlatanArKung, on 06 January 2018 - 01:11 AM, said:

Since I have played quite a few weird tanks and 3 marked them.

 

I just think I found the most out of meta T7 tank in the AMX M4 45.

 

Now you might wonder why this beautiful beast is so out of meta.

 

1:  It gets worse MM than other T7 heavies (not tin foil).

Why?

 

It gets weighted as a heavy, like O-Ni, IS, T29, KV-3 etc. Which creates 1 big difference.

These tanks have either armour and/or high alpha, the AMX have neither.

So while these other heavy tanks can work on the heavy flank and bounce etc even as bottom tier, the AMX can't. 

I have had good blocking damage games recently in Tiger P, KV-3 and VK 45.02 which are my most recent 3 marking T7 heavy experiences.

These tanks can have an impact and be an obstacle to enemy heavies. Something the AMX M4 45 can't.

This means your heavy flank will always be at an disadvantage, due to matchmaking.

And it is not fast or good enough to be medium, due to slow speed, slower then IS.

 

2: The attributes it have, doesnt fit into current map pool or meta. 

It has 300 alpha, which is OK, 10 degrees of gun depression, also OK, ok turret armour. But gunhandling sucks, which leads to long exposure time anyway. 

And most important, having OK attributes over many areas doesnt fit current meta. In current meta you need GOOD stats on some areas and trade them for bad in others, just like Jap heavies, or VK100P.

A tank, like AMX, that is mediocre on many things just doesn't fit.

 

How to make it decent in current meta?

Give it 1 area where it is really good.

Examples:

Mobility to 45 with better hp/t.

Or.

Better gun handling.

Or.

Higher dpm, say 2400.

 

 

My stats in it after grind is horrendous in 1 area.

 

WR: 53% (terrible).

Dpg: 1527 (ok).

Spot/game: 1.12 (ok)

Enemy tanks destroyed/game: 1.41 (ok)

Assistance: 345 (ok)

MoE: 95.61% (ok)

Only using 105mm gun and almost no premium shells. Thinking about testing the top 90 mm gun, but it just seems worse. 90 mm doesn't overmatch Strv S1, and some other tanks. It has same Aimtime, a little better accuracy and 15% less dpm.

 

I think that the low WR is due to it being our of meta, especially for the MM. It is simply matched as a heavy while it can't perform any of the actions of a heavy, thus leaving it's team 1 heavy down.

 

Let's see if I can get it to 60%+ WR. It should be doable, I just have to play it like a slow medium.

 

Not recommended.

 

2nd worst T7 heavy I have played, only FV201(A45) is worse.

 

Thanks for the heads up. I am heading that way and it only seems to get worse until tier 9. For me, worst t7 this far is definitely black princess and i sort of hoped that it would be the low point but I presume wg has to encourage free xp:ing somehow.   

Balc0ra #8 Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:02 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 66275 battles
  • 16,274
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012
Tiger P is even more useless with that long reload vs alpha. But as for the AMX M4? Give it the stock turret of the new tier 8 with a bit less side and forward armor with a bit more mobility. Make it like the T-10 on tier 7.

clixor #9 Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:17 AM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 51483 battles
  • 3,058
  • Member since:
    08-07-2011

AMX M4 45 really should get a mobility buff, it's french after all. 

 

Second the ridiculous p2w, more dmg when shooting gold, should be removed. The gold alpha should be the standard dmg as well.



Balc0ra #10 Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:22 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 66275 battles
  • 16,274
  • [WALL] WALL
  • Member since:
    07-10-2012

View Postclixor, on 06 January 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

Second the ridiculous p2w, more dmg when shooting gold, should be removed. The gold alpha should be the standard dmg as well.

 

Most guns that have more dmg when shooting gold. Inc the 183, SU-100Y has less pen vs normal ammo when doing so. And not all of them have HE or HEHS. Most will do worse in the SU-100Y if they gold spamming. So then you really need to know your aim.

 

IMO the Type 4/5 gold ammo should not have more damage, but more pen. Not much. But enough to give it a bit more damage, but not enough to 1 shot kill tier 8 meds.


Edited by Balc0ra, 06 January 2018 - 10:27 AM.


ZlatanArKung #11 Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:28 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 1529 battles
  • 5,112
  • Member since:
    12-20-2014

View Postclixor, on 06 January 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

AMX M4 45 really should get a mobility buff, it's french after all. 

 

Second the ridiculous p2w, more dmg when shooting gold, should be removed. The gold alpha should be the standard dmg as well.

Indeed, a mobility buff would be nice so it ends up more like a T-10 of T7.



ZlatanArKung #12 Posted 06 January 2018 - 10:30 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 1529 battles
  • 5,112
  • Member since:
    12-20-2014

View PostBalc0ra, on 06 January 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

Tiger P is even more useless with that long reload vs alpha. But as for the AMX M4? Give it the stock turret of the new tier 8 with a bit less side and forward armor with a bit more mobility. Make it like the T-10 on tier 7.

 

I think the Tiger P is more in the meta then AMX.

The Tiger P is better at fighting other heavies,  and can bounce pretty much, making it a better heavy tank.

And in current WoT being a good heavy tank is kind of very important.



PoIestar #13 Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:12 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 31707 battles
  • 4,078
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    05-02-2013

Charioteer definitely got kicked out of the meta imho. Even the gun-dep buff didn't change that.

 

And I think the light tank changes made every light tank just an inferior med to be honest.



_underscored_ #14 Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:19 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 58378 battles
  • 387
  • [DR3DD] DR3DD
  • Member since:
    04-19-2014

I guess I agree with OP but two things comes to mind

- I never played AMX M4 much but it kind of worked anyway in an FCM kind of way. But out of meta yes.

- Haven't played T7 much lately but I'm feeling at T8 has worse mm, T7 much is better nowadays.

 

So if you play it despite meta (tank hipster or marking) it's not that bad methinks.

 



lord_chipmonk #15 Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:26 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 33952 battles
  • 10,251
  • [-HOW-] -HOW-
  • Member since:
    12-23-2012
Given that you think the AMX has 300 alpha, you presumably play it with the 105 and fire APCR. Try playing it without firing lots of APCR and it is just painful. 

Snake_Keeper #16 Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:27 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 8978 battles
  • 714
  • Member since:
    02-04-2016

View Postlord_chipmonk, on 06 January 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

Given that you think the AMX has 300 alpha, you presumably play it with the 105 and fire APCR. Try playing it without firing lots of APCR and it is just painful. 

 

APCR is 330. AP is 300.

Kriegerseele #17 Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:28 AM

    Lance-corporal

  • Player
  • 28028 battles
  • 92
  • [IDEAL] IDEAL
  • Member since:
    02-06-2013
Its a great tank and i love it. 57 games where enough to 3 mark it with 2400 damage. You just have to play it smart and use its great gundepression.

lord_chipmonk #18 Posted 06 January 2018 - 11:30 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 33952 battles
  • 10,251
  • [-HOW-] -HOW-
  • Member since:
    12-23-2012

View PostSnake_Keeper, on 06 January 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

 

APCR is 330. AP is 300.

 

True, but I have yet to hear of a player who voluntarily fires predominately AP from the 105, though I could be mistaken. 

Bennie182 #19 Posted 06 January 2018 - 12:02 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 53694 battles
  • 1,603
  • [WGL-A] WGL-A
  • Member since:
    03-13-2012

View PostZlatanArKung, on 06 January 2018 - 02:46 AM, said:

I don't think it is worse then a Tiger.

It has better mobility, 300 alpha and 10 degrees of gun depression and a turret that sometimes bounce stuff.

 

Tiger I is also pretty bad in current meta. But it have 1 good feature, good dpm and good gun.

Which covers its many flaws.

 

The AMX lack 1 good feature, has a few flaws, but most stats are just mediocre.

You look from the perspective of the 105 gun. Then it has alpha, but only works with goldspam. A tank should be ok without goldspam and have it's pro's and cons, like said before. Tiger I is known for it's dpm and gun handling. French tanks don't have the best gun handling, but this tank has far worst of them all in my opinion.

 

I've played over 500 games in it, 1 gun mark and 55% wins, so I think I'm able to judge it.

-I think it should get a buff on gun handling, to make it closer to other French vehicles. 2,9s aim time on the 90mm gun? This is like 122mm level of Russian and Chinese tanks. Doesn't make sense that I see loads of high caliber guns getting better gun handling then lower caliber ones. Examples: new French heavy line, Chinese heavies/meds. Chinese tanks even hit more without being fully aimed than this tank, which is ridiculous. Bringing it down to like 2,5 sec would be a lot better.

-Improvement of mobility, also mentioned before. French tanks are support vehicles, not brawlers. This tank should be able to get up to speed quicker, so it can flank and work better, especially with the 105 gun. I didn't like the 105 myself, also because the 212 pen on the 90mm is nice and the accuracy isn't that different. The AMX M4 45 is more like the AMX 50's line, then the other one, so I think it should be adjust to that, since Wargaming wants lines to me consistent.



Etre_ #20 Posted 06 January 2018 - 12:29 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 52653 battles
  • 1,332
  • [WEBOB] WEBOB
  • Member since:
    04-21-2014

View PostZlatanArKung, on 06 January 2018 - 02:11 AM, said:

Since I have played quite a few weird tanks and 3 marked them.

 

I just think I found the most out of meta T7 tank in the AMX M4 45.

 

Now you might wonder why this beautiful beast is so out of meta.

 

1:  It gets worse MM than other T7 heavies (not tin foil).

Why?

 

It gets weighted as a heavy, like O-Ni, IS, T29, KV-3 etc. Which creates 1 big difference.

These tanks have either armour and/or high alpha, the AMX have neither.

So while these other heavy tanks can work on the heavy flank and bounce etc even as bottom tier, the AMX can't. 

I have had good blocking damage games recently in Tiger P, KV-3 and VK 45.02 which are my most recent 3 marking T7 heavy experiences.

These tanks can have an impact and be an obstacle to enemy heavies. Something the AMX M4 45 can't.

This means your heavy flank will always be at an disadvantage, due to matchmaking.

And it is not fast or good enough to be medium, due to slow speed, slower then IS.

 

2: The attributes it have, doesnt fit into current map pool or meta. 

It has 300 alpha, which is OK, 10 degrees of gun depression, also OK, ok turret armour. But gunhandling sucks, which leads to long exposure time anyway. 

And most important, having OK attributes over many areas doesnt fit current meta. In current meta you need GOOD stats on some areas and trade them for bad in others, just like Jap heavies, or VK100P.

A tank, like AMX, that is mediocre on many things just doesn't fit.

 

How to make it decent in current meta?

Give it 1 area where it is really good.

Examples:

Mobility to 45 with better hp/t.

Or.

Better gun handling.

Or.

Higher dpm, say 2400.

 

 

My stats in it after grind is horrendous in 1 area.

 

WR: 53% (terrible).

Dpg: 1527 (ok).

Spot/game: 1.12 (ok)

Enemy tanks destroyed/game: 1.41 (ok)

Assistance: 345 (ok)

MoE: 95.61% (ok)

Only using 105mm gun and almost no premium shells. Thinking about testing the top 90 mm gun, but it just seems worse. 90 mm doesn't overmatch Strv S1, and some other tanks. It has same Aimtime, a little better accuracy and 15% less dpm.

 

I think that the low WR is due to it being our of meta, especially for the MM. It is simply matched as a heavy while it can't perform any of the actions of a heavy, thus leaving it's team 1 heavy down.

 

Let's see if I can get it to 60%+ WR. It should be doable, I just have to play it like a slow medium.

 

Not recommended.

 

2nd worst T7 heavy I have played, only FV201(A45) is worse.

 

Why the hell are people speaking about 3 marks on their troll accounts ?!

If you have something to show us, show !






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users