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USA turreted tank destroyer

wtf who designed this

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TEMELJNI #1 Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:08 PM

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TLDR: Whole line is like tanks botched from different nations and types of tanks.

So in light of dreaded su122-54 replacement using "it does not fit the style of the branch" and my t30 grinding i came to realize WG spins the explanations for their actions however they please (dare i say lie).

Here goes the longer part.

I got into this game by force literally, a friend wanted to have company to play a game while he is working abroad, so he bought me and clan pal of mine pair of t34s for grinding cash and some prem time. As time passed and i started NOT mindlessly rushing tank lines due to unnatural credit and xp income i started to like t34 and its punch. Never feared t10 mm, good depression, a well rounded package. Then i got fed with it and traded it for revalorise (best deal i could have made tbh). One of the reasons why i dropped t34 was the fact that t30 had same configuration with a bigger gun so naturally i wanted t30, a path filled with shards of glass and pain of playing TDs in this game.

Time went by, i reached hellcat and kinda got used to "dont get seen or you die" playstyle witch at the time (and now) really doesnt suit me, ofc it was atrocious experience that i would rather not bring up anymore. Since i rebought some tanks i grinded earlier but sold due to me being a retard and really not having a place in high tier games at the time  i decided to restart t30 grind from the t25/2 where i stopped at one point. Descent mobility allowed me to play t25/2 like a paper medium (being used to it and all) it performed quite well with restart grind at 43% i finished it with 53% in under 90 games upon restarting (132 total). Then came the prot.. this tank is not a td, its a damn heavy tank and everything i was used to in previous experience with td-s did not work, i started the grind with 0% wr in 10 games, questioning myself where and what im i doing wrong. Then it shined on me.. dont play it like a td, play it like its a russian heavy... try it .. voice in my head droned... so i did. 163 games in it later i have a wr of 57% and dare i say the tank is an actually not that bad but its not a td. Now we get to the t30 (grinding creds for it) tank i know very well, hulldown beast witch is again different from every tank in the line previous to it. 

 

The line is complete and utter nonsense,  we start with 72kmh (t3 hmc) top speed td that goes down to 50kmh (t56) up to 58kmh (m8a1) up to 61kmh (t67) up to  72kmh (hellcat) down to 56kmh (t25/2) down to 28kmh (prot28) up to 35kmh (t30) and it stays there for e4. In all that time the speed and mobility rolercoaster is not the only thing you are forced to adapt to. Playstyle goes from redline tds, to howitzers to speed demons with rof of a lightning back to low pen medium speed medium dmg guns up to heavy tank guns till you reach high alpha guns. 
Precision in the line is keyword you wont find fitting and most of the times you are forced to play your tank destroyer as something completely different. 
This branch is poorly balanced, poorly designed and the only redeeming feature to me would be return to my beloved hulldown t34 with a bigger gun.

Rant over, how was this line for you?


Edited by TEMELJNI, 07 January 2018 - 02:27 PM.


Derethim #2 Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:18 PM

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View PostTEMELJNI, on 07 January 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

Rant over, how was this line for you?

Loved it before, love it now.

I don't see the problem here - the line has variety! Learning and figuring out how to play a tank is what this game's about!

I played the line through the T18 and was choosing a line depending on how well I performed in the first tank and of course, T18 was OP. Didn't know any of the game's mechanics back then btw.

Grinded my way through the T82, which was awful back then and then I arrived at the Wolverine. Loved it to bits and the pre-nerf Hellcat was just FUN.

Then I arrived at the T25/2 ... jesus christ, I don't know what my winrate in that thing is, but back then I was terrible to begin with. Couple that with the T25/2.. oh shiet.

So I grinded through it, sold it and kept playing tier V in my M4 until I got better and eventually bough the Proto - it was nice, but had an open turret back then. Arty loved me to bits, but I don't hate arty, unless it one-shots me, which was like every fifth game. Then I unlocked the T28 and the T30 and sold it. Done.

 

But imo, every line in this game should have variety. Yes, the tank should follow the same suite, for example; rear-casemate TDs, Open-turreted TDs, heavies with no armor and with autoloaders, rear-turreted meds etc., but there should be breaks for something different in a line. Like the Su-122-54 they wan't to remove :/ 



TEMELJNI #3 Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:22 PM

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Well, my humble opinion is that "variety" should be reserved for different types of tank branches and their respectable country of origin. The player should (and i repeat in my opinion) progress through chosen tank line based on choices and pros/cons that selected line offers. God forbid that you get a better tank with  same playstyle when you upgrade.

gav00 #4 Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:24 PM

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None of the tech lines make any real sense. Most of them throw you back and forth between completely different playstyles. This is especially obvious for TDs and lights

8126Jakobsson #5 Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:25 PM

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I liked the line. Probably because they can be played like proper tanks and not TD's. #tankracism

samuelx43a #6 Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:26 PM

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Currently at the T28 proto, fully upgraded. It's true, mostly a frontline TD, but it is also a good mid range sniper due to it's very decent DPM.

 

As a mostly TD player, the USA turreted TD line was incredibly fun.

Still remember when I finally unlocked the derp gun on the T82, those were fun times...

Also, the T25/2 I actually did not mind playing it.

I just treated it like a slow medium.



Derethim #7 Posted 07 January 2018 - 02:26 PM

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Bear Grylls wants a word with you.


Edited by Derethim, 07 January 2018 - 02:27 PM.


Lord_Edge #8 Posted 07 January 2018 - 04:23 PM

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I doubt WG are going to be waiving their silly "the line must all be the same" wand over that line anytime soon.  Hell the USA has a LT/MT line that ends in a HT (T57), if they're likely to ruin any line with their new mentality it's probably that one.

TEMELJNI #9 Posted 07 January 2018 - 04:27 PM

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View PostLord_Edge, on 07 January 2018 - 04:23 PM, said:

I doubt WG are going to be waiving their silly "the line must all be the same" wand over that line anytime soon.  Hell the USA has a LT/MT line that ends in a HT (T57), if they're likely to ruin any line with their new mentality it's probably that one.

 

Already grinded that one (MY GOD t54e1 is a piece of crap... i re-bought it 3 times and freexped last 50+k...). Good tank t57, line has no sense as you said.

Edited by TEMELJNI, 07 January 2018 - 04:28 PM.


Laur_Balaur_XD #10 Posted 07 January 2018 - 06:58 PM

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The E4 line is one of the best in game, and is really easy to play.

Also the variety is good for a game, and actually whole line is really homogene - i don't understand what you not like in that aspect....

You want all tanks to have same speed, mobility and armor from tier 1 to tier 10???



Erwin_Von_Braun #11 Posted 07 January 2018 - 07:38 PM

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View PostDerethim, on 07 January 2018 - 01:26 PM, said:

Bear Grylls wants a word with you.

 

 

Arty haters could do with paying attention to THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

On a serious note, I'm a big fan of the T25/2 - it's kinda like the Hellcats big brother.

I've unlocked the T28, purchased it, got bored with it's frightening lack of pace, sold it.

That was pre-buff tho, so may give it another go.

 

 


Edited by Erwin_Von_Braun, 07 January 2018 - 07:58 PM.


BP_OMowe #12 Posted 08 January 2018 - 01:10 AM

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View PostTEMELJNI, on 07 January 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

Well, my humble opinion is that "variety" should be reserved for different types of tank branches and their respectable country of origin. The player should (and i repeat in my opinion) progress through chosen tank line based on choices and pros/cons that selected line offers. God forbid that you get a better tank with  same playstyle when you upgrade.

 

I utterly disagre, as I want a gamified simulator and not a reskinned generic shooter.
If asked, I'd say each and every tank should be kept as close as to the actual vehicle as possible, carefully placed in an appropriate tier and then, but only then, have the stats adjusted for the sake of game-balance.

ZlatanArKung #13 Posted 08 January 2018 - 07:03 AM

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View PostIulian_ro, on 07 January 2018 - 06:58 PM, said:

The E4 line is one of the best in game, and is really easy to play.

Also the variety is good for a game, and actually whole line is really homogene - i don't understand what you not like in that aspect....

You want all tanks to have same speed, mobility and armor from tier 1 to tier 10???

Homogene what?

 

You go from fast unarmoured high rof sniping/flanking tanks to slow armoured high alpha low rof tanks.

Only feature they share is a turret.

 

I think line is fine.

 

But WG has shown lately that a line should have similar features (speed, armour, alpha, armour).

Or that is their goal at least.



Homer_J #14 Posted 08 January 2018 - 08:37 AM

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View PostTEMELJNI, on 07 January 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:


So in light of dreaded su122-54 replacement using "it does not fit the style of the branch" and my t30 grinding i came to realize WG spins the explanations for their actions however they please (dare i say lie).

The turreted US TD line is a product of WG's 2010 way of thinking which was to have some variety in a tank line.  The new way is IMO quite boring to have same tank after same tank but no doubt they will get around to the US TDs eventually.



250swb #15 Posted 08 January 2018 - 09:17 AM

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The US TD lines are a couple of the best trees in the game, offering variety, effective tanks, and easy research. And while the tanks may in some cases be average none are utter dogs. This game needs variety and not cut-n-paste tanks whose only difference is a gradual increase in gun, armour, and cost. Now with the logical crossover between trees you can switch branches halfway through, and if you can't have fun at every step from T40 to T3 you have no soul.

Edited by 250swb, 08 January 2018 - 09:19 AM.


tajj7 #16 Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:15 AM

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The line actually represents well the real life US 'tank destroyer' progression and then muddled thinking in real life. 

 

US Army at the start of war thought that very mobile, lightly armoured 'tank destroyers' could support general purpose tanks in an anti-tank role, hence the open top, fast, lightly armoured TDs you get at the start, then based on experience during the war they realised this didn't really work because your main tanks were going to get into anti-tank battles before your tank destroyers could get into combat so what was the point. Basically the 'tank destroyer' concept in US terms died with the Hellcat and the Jackson. 

 

Then seeing machines like the Tigers, then later the IS tanks, especially IS3s and they started designing heavily armoured 'heavy' tanks with big guns, that is basically what your T30 is and your T110E4 is.

 

WG have blurred the lines really, the T28 proto IIRC is completely made up, it's a WG fake of a T28 with a turret, which in itself is really a T-95 without the outer tracks and unhistorical armour.  The T30 is a heavy tank design, same as the T29 and T34, just with the biggest gun (and was the US tier 10 heavy tank) and the T110s are just diferent variations on the same heavy tank concept. 

 

So your 'tank destroyer' line is basically a representation from the failed US TD doctrine up to tier 7, then progresses into heavy tanks at higher tiers that WG have designated 'TDs' because they have big guns. With one made up tank to fill a gap. 

 

But that is basically how the US army planned to deal with enemy heavily armoured tanks, they started off with fast agile tanks with no armour but better guns than their general purpose tanks, then switch to heavily armoured, hull down heavy tanks with big guns. 

 

 



Geno1isme #17 Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:06 PM

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Well, WG only cares about T8+ anyway these days.

Nickthedevil #18 Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:32 PM

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Love both turreted TD lines up to T8.

 

M8A1 > Hellcat > T25 > Wolverine (Achilles)  > Jackson are all fab and my go to vehicles when I want to chill.

 

Said it many times before but the T67 is the most fun you can have in this game with your pants on.

 

 



arthurwellsley #19 Posted 08 January 2018 - 12:49 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 08 January 2018 - 09:15 AM, said:

The line actually represents well the real life US 'tank destroyer' progression and then muddled thinking in real life. 

 

US Army at the start of war thought that very mobile, lightly armoured 'tank destroyers' could support general purpose tanks in an anti-tank role, hence the open top, fast, lightly armoured TDs you get at the start, then based on experience during the war they realised this didn't really work because your main tanks were going to get into anti-tank battles before your tank destroyers could get into combat so what was the point. Basically the 'tank destroyer' concept in US terms died with the Hellcat and the Jackson. 

 

Then seeing machines like the Tigers, then later the IS tanks, especially IS3s and they started designing heavily armoured 'heavy' tanks with big guns, that is basically what your T30 is and your T110E4 is.

 

WG have blurred the lines really, the T28 proto IIRC is completely made up, it's a WG fake of a T28 with a turret, which in itself is really a T-95 without the outer tracks and unhistorical armour.  The T30 is a heavy tank design, same as the T29 and T34, just with the biggest gun (and was the US tier 10 heavy tank) and the T110s are just diferent variations on the same heavy tank concept. 

 

So your 'tank destroyer' line is basically a representation from the failed US TD doctrine up to tier 7, then progresses into heavy tanks at higher tiers that WG have designated 'TDs' because they have big guns. With one made up tank to fill a gap. 

 

But that is basically how the US army planned to deal with enemy heavily armoured tanks, they started off with fast agile tanks with no armour but better guns than their general purpose tanks, then switch to heavily armoured, hull down heavy tanks with big guns. 

 

 

 

USA td doctrine is why the line is a mess. WG on the whole followed what happened with USA tank thinking.

Iscoed1815 #20 Posted 08 January 2018 - 01:31 PM

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I was quite surprised yesterday I was playing the T28/Proto on Fshermans Bay, I went over to the usual TD hang out, we were rushed by 2 IS7's and a 7/1, being to slow to pull back, I stood and fought, in hindsight I shouldn't of gone over as we had no support, just 3 TD's. But I managed to pen the IS7's 4 times, once at the side, and 3 times frontally, without using gold, did make them stop and think, till they realised I was the only one there!!




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