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Premium HE...

premium ammo ammunition HE high explosive pay to win

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IslanderJer #1 Posted 08 January 2018 - 02:56 AM

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Hi,

 

As much as it is just how the game is now, and this forum post can do nothing other than bring more attention to the matter..

 

Premium ammo, specifically premium high explosive. Why has nothing been done to sort it out? (I'll expand on my question below).

 

Back in the good old days when World of Tanks was new, novel and good fun to play, premium ammunition was literally pay to win. You had to pay Gold currency to buy premium rounds if you wanted to fire them in battle. This resulted in players (for the most part) hardly ever firing or receiving premium rounds during battles. The players who had nothing better to do than pump their cash into the game to gain an unfair advantage over the rest of the mob clearly rubbed players up the wrong way, and so, courteously, Wargaming stopped premium ammo being available for only gold, but made them purchasable using Silver currency.

OK, great. The pay to win aspect was resolved.. or was it?

With every player now having access to premium ammunition, it became widely used, and the players who funded their premium ammo spam with use of premium vehicles and premium account, the issue has once again raised its head, yet not in such a direct manner. More credits per battle = more premium ammunition available to throw at the enemy. Premium account/vehicles = more credits = more premium ammunition, if we take it down to basics.

 

But with the changes made to artillery and the introduction of the Japanese heavy line, this issue has been exasperated. Wargaming decided do introduce Premium HE rounds.. well, what a good idea that is. Pay more Silver, do more damage. No downsides whatsoever!

Now you could argue the same for HEAT and APCR (I would say that HESH is more balanced than the rest but is a serious pan in the a**). HEAT doesn't lose penetration over distance and is able to overmatch thin armour at high impact angles, although it is absorbed in tracks and spaced armour. APCR does lose penetration but has incredible velocity, making it much easier to shoot vehicles at long range. So both have up-sides and down sides (I would like to add the caveat that i have generalised over the vast majority of how the ammunition works for most of the guns in the game), however premium ammunition (as the name suggests) is better* than standard ammunition. If you want to argue the counter, then your fight is not with me, I'm not here to contest that.

*better does not mean most appropriate

 

What I propose to resurrect the blatant pay to win situation which has arisen.

1. Abolish premium HE. It is literally "Pay more, win more".

2. Adjust the damage that "premium" ammunitions do relative to their penetration advantage. For example, your T100LT has APCR standard ammo: 300hp alpha with 230mm pen, and AP premium ammo: 300hp alpha with 248mm pen. I would make the following change: There is a 7.83% increase in penetration, so the alpha damage of the AP rounds should be reduced to 277hp. These should COST THE SAME.

3. GET RID OF PREMIUM AMMUNITION. Ammunition is ammunition.. give them separate characteristics and it will add another element of skill to the game, rewarding players who make the best choice for the situation they are in.

4. Stop introducing tanks which rely on premium ammunition to be effective in its battles (cough Chrysler K).

5. Stop introducing super-heavies. The Maus was/is novel, but the Buffed VK7, Type4, Type5, to some extent the re-worked British top tier heavies, simply don't have weakspots like the Maus (cheeks and mid lower plate), and you cannot 'outplay' HE shells (cough Japanese Heavies). Its made competitive game play (advances when attacking against a defending team) a misery. Getting spammed with premium HE, when your 340mm HEAT rounds can't penetrate their turret/hull reliably, let alone do any sort of effective damage to the large health pool... and costing you an arm and a leg at the same time!

 

I genuinely hope it isn't part of your business model.

 

I would love to hear your thoughts.

 

KR

 

IJ



Lord_Edge #2 Posted 08 January 2018 - 03:54 AM

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View PostIslanderJer, on 08 January 2018 - 02:56 AM, said:

1. Abolish premium HE. It is literally "Pay more, win more".

Actually it's the opposite, the premium HE is literally "pay to be competitive, or get gimped damage".  Seriously a 1100 dmg derp round sounds like a big number but it's awful at tier X, it's literally 20% more damage than a tier 6 derp round.  And when you factor in how much DPM that actually gives when not penetrating (which is normal when fighting other HTs), it's simply not viable/competitive to be using the regular ammo at that level.

 

 

View PostIslanderJer, on 08 January 2018 - 02:56 AM, said:

Getting spammed with premium HE, when your 340mm HEAT rounds can't penetrate their turret/hull reliably, let alone do any sort of effective damage to the large health pool... and costing you an arm and a leg at the same time!

340mm HEAT rounds will reliably perforate the front of a Japanese super heavy, it's the APCR that has issues.  I.E an IS-7 can have trouble with superheavies but the T-10 just ignores their frontal armor.



ZlatanArKung #3 Posted 08 January 2018 - 06:34 AM

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Yes, premium ammo sucks.
But it sucks because WG in their infinite wisdom added super heavy tanks without frontal weakspots forcing players to shoot it if they want to have a chance.

Example: KV-3 Vs O-Ni...

Sheriff__Woody #4 Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:40 AM

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This is how wg make money how can people not actually see it?? It makes people buy premium time/gold/silver packs to be able to fire gold it WILL NOT change so fire gold and get used to it-im a dinger if i dont fire gold ill get kicked :)

TankkiPoju #5 Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:43 AM

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View PostIslanderJer, on 08 January 2018 - 02:56 AM, said:

I would love to hear your thoughts.

 

KR

 

IJ

 

None of your ideas are going to happen because they would mean WG would make slightly less money from this game.

 



Archaean #6 Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:48 AM

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View PostSheriff__Woody, on 08 January 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

This is how wg make money how can people not actually see it?? It makes people buy premium time/gold/silver packs to be able to fire gold it WILL NOT change so fire gold and get used to it-im a dinger if i dont fire gold ill get kicked :)

 

many can see it alright, but they are still fustrated. The bigger question "why is wargming doing such bs" is more "Why is wargaming trying to earn money by completely destroying the balance in-game thus heavily enticing the use of premium ammunition?"

 

Yes? 



Bora_BOOM #7 Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:51 AM

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TLDR.

 

Premium HE is not a brainfart.

Its an excrement, the real thing.

And how it got there?

Implanted by moneymilkers.



Sheriff__Woody #8 Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:56 AM

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View PostArchaean, on 08 January 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

 

many can see it alright, but they are still fustrated. The bigger question "why is wargming doing such bs" is more "Why is wargaming trying to earn money by completely destroying the balance in-game thus heavily enticing the use of premium ammunition?"

 

Yes? 

100% wg is here to make as much cash as they can as quick as they can all f2p games are the exact same its the nature of the beast. Personally i just fire gold all the time and enjoy the crying msgs i get after the game- why you shoot my lught with gold in your is3 - because i can :)



Derethim #9 Posted 08 January 2018 - 11:08 AM

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/inb4 forum trolls arrive, looking up your stats and telling you to l2p, when we all know you HAVE to fire premium to pen an angled Maus lowerplate :D

 

Completely agree with you. I wouldn't get rid of premium ammo though - adjust the cost, the pen values and the armor of the most broken tanks out there, starting with Maus and Type 5 and 4 and going down through tanks like Super Conk, that have no weakspot if they hide their lowerplate and are missing a frontal turret weakspot, unless you fire HEAT at it.

I'd keep different ammo types, so that you should know when to fire HE, HEAT, APCR or AP and adjust the game based on it. That wouldn't break the game for anyone.

 

BUT, Wargaming.

So it's never going to happen.

The game will never be properly balanced as long as premium ammo exists.



Wacken0r #10 Posted 08 January 2018 - 11:43 AM

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View PostDerethim, on 08 January 2018 - 11:08 AM, said:

/inb4 forum trolls arrive, looking up your stats and telling you to l2p, when we all know you HAVE to fire premium to pen an angled Maus lowerplate :D

 

Completely agree with you. I wouldn't get rid of premium ammo though - adjust the cost, the pen values and the armor of the most broken tanks out there, starting with Maus and Type 5 and 4 and going down through tanks like Super Conk, that have no weakspot if they hide their lowerplate and are missing a frontal turret weakspot, unless you fire HEAT at it.

I'd keep different ammo types, so that you should know when to fire HE, HEAT, APCR or AP and adjust the game based on it. That wouldn't break the game for anyone.

 

BUT, Wargaming.

So it's never going to happen.

The game will never be properly balanced as long as premium ammo exists.

 

 

Type 4 armor is actually not the problem as it is "only" 240mm thick and practically all tanks, at least heavies and tds can penetrate it frontally by aiming at flat and unangled parts of the hull or turret. On top of that the shoulder plates are weak and you can track and penetrate the side armor of the Type 4. The 40mm of armor the Type 5 gets on top on the other hand are simply too much. If they kept the tier 9 armor and improved the gun we would all be golden here.  

The HE gun on Type 5 is still cancer. But to be honest, I am grinding Type 4 on my account with the 14cm AP as it is reliable, more accurate and punchy. It is like a mini-E100 on tier 9. I do not get why they introduced the 15 cm troll canon after all.



PolarMolaris #11 Posted 17 August 2018 - 03:40 PM

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Other [edited]issue is 9 tier soviet and china tanks have 340 mm heat ammo. They ussually gold spam and this is pay to win. If you dont have premium account or premium tanks, this game clearly pay to win. A child can even pen 340 mm ammo with auto-aim.

Dava_117 #12 Posted 17 August 2018 - 04:01 PM

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View PostPolarMolaris, on 17 August 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

Other [edited]issue is 9 tier soviet and china tanks have 340 mm heat ammo. They ussually gold spam and this is pay to win. If you dont have premium account or premium tanks, this game clearly pay to win. A child can even pen 340 mm ammo with auto-aim.

 

To be fair, USA have that pen too. Tier 9 120-122mm gun all have 340HEAT or 320APCR. Not a point IMO...



Andrasan89 #13 Posted 17 August 2018 - 05:05 PM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 08 January 2018 - 06:34 AM, said:

Yes, premium ammo sucks.
But it sucks because WG in their infinite wisdom added super heavy tanks without frontal weakspots forcing players to shoot it if they want to have a chance.

Example: KV-3 Vs O-Ni...

 

p2w Pay To Win,

just pay more and you CAN win !

 

:facepalm:






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