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New HD maps making gun depression less relevant?


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ExistanceUK #1 Posted 10 January 2018 - 03:36 PM

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Having just read through the latest news about the HD map changes to Fisherman's Bay over on TAP where WG talk about how they are flattening out the left hand side dip, does anyone think it's a good idea to do this?

 

The flattening out of maps was something I noticed when I played the HD maps Sandbox particularly on Steppes, I feel this just buffs tanks with bad gun depression (Russian and Chinese) but is a big nerf to those tanks that need to use gun depression to make use of their armour.

 

What are everyone's thoughts? Does it just feel like another dumbing down of gameplay?


Edited by ExistanceUK, 10 January 2018 - 03:38 PM.


Derethim #2 Posted 10 January 2018 - 03:38 PM

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View PostExistanceUK, on 10 January 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

Having just read through the latest news about the HD map changes to Fisherman's Bay over on TAP where WG talk about how they are flattening out the left hand side dip, does anyone think it's a good idea to do this?

 

The flattening out of maps was something I noticed when I played the HD maps Sandbox particularly on Steppes, I feel this just buffs tanks with bad gun depression (Russian and Chinese) but is a big nerf to those tanks that need to use gun depression to make use of their armour.

 

What are everyone's thoughts?

 

Well, the Chinese atm have really nowhere to go with their tanks, unless it's a city map/heavy line as their GD is non-existent.

Altough the last thing Soviets need is another buff to their tanks. I'd actually be pro-hilly maps and not flat maps with no cover.



Isharial #3 Posted 10 January 2018 - 03:43 PM

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View PostDerethim, on 10 January 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

 

Well, the Chinese atm have really nowhere to go with their tanks, unless it's a city map/heavy line as their GD is non-existent.

Altough the last thing Soviets need is another buff to their tanks. I'd actually be pro-hilly maps and not flat maps with no cover.

 

im not so much "pro hilly maps" but there needs to be a selection of maps, some with gun depression, others where it is less useful, that way keeping tanks that rely on it in the loop as well as ones that don't

 

 

 

personally id rather positions on each map that favour different types, but combining that with a well thought out map and still enabling all other classes to compete on the same level (should they be driven well) would be rather more complex

 


 



Cobra6 #4 Posted 10 January 2018 - 03:48 PM

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No it's not a good idea at all. Good gun depression used to be a good advantage to have and a balancing point of a tank. If WG removes all good locations for tanks with gun depression they are basically effectively nerfing the combat capability of these vehicles.

 

Stop making every location viable for Steve the IS-7 driver, it does not help gameplay in the slightest.

 

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Derethim #5 Posted 10 January 2018 - 03:48 PM

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View PostIsharial, on 10 January 2018 - 03:43 PM, said:

personally id rather positions on each map that favour different types, but combining that with a well thought out map and still enabling all other classes to compete on the same level (should they be driven well) would be rather more complex

 

I've got the opposite opinion. I hate the fact, that on each map, there is a heavy line a medium line a single TD kempbush for your whole team and a back spot for arty. It makes matches extremely predictable and it's only because of how small the maps are.



__H3H3__ #6 Posted 10 January 2018 - 03:51 PM

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The thing that I noticed the most about the new HD maps is the tremendous amount of trees on some maps. Just imagine a STRV all the way in the corner with 20 million bushes in front of him. He is just never going to get spotted.

Isharial #7 Posted 10 January 2018 - 04:09 PM

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View PostDerethim, on 10 January 2018 - 03:48 PM, said:

I've got the opposite opinion. I hate the fact, that on each map, there is a heavy line a medium line a single TD kempbush for your whole team and a back spot for arty. It makes matches extremely predictable and it's only because of how small the maps are.

 

I think you misunderstood what I meant.. or I didn't type it very well... either way, you have the wrong idea!

 

what I meant was on one such flank, there would be parts that are hills where hull down tanks can utilise their abilites, bushes for TD's spread around so that they can advance (which is something they lack currently) and smaller hills to cover LFP's of brawler tanks, so they don't have to charge to facehug something


 

the maps we have now don't cater for multiple tanks, they favour one type, and damn the rest.

fjords being one example of that. you need a turret.. if you don't, you end up being either forced into the open where flanking is easy on such a map (and thus can no longer rely on your strengths), or sniping from pointless locations like K8 (where you can but there's nothing to shoot at)... that makes it rather awkward to influence the battle in anything casemate that relies on camo and stealth rather than armour. there should have been atleast 1 place they could have advanced and pushed on that map


 

View Postanother_Ghost_Shell, on 10 January 2018 - 03:51 PM, said:

The thing that I noticed the most about the new HD maps is the tremendous amount of trees on some maps. Just imagine a STRV all the way in the corner with 20 million bushes in front of him. He is just never going to get spotted.

 

that's also an issue ^ it favours one type (again)

View PostCobra6, on 10 January 2018 - 03:48 PM, said:

No it's not a good idea at all. Good gun depression used to be a good advantage to have and a balancing point of a tank. If WG removes all good locations for tanks with gun depression they are basically effectively nerfing the combat capability of these vehicles.

 

Stop making every location viable for Steve the IS-7 driver, it does not help gameplay in the slightest.

 

Cobra 6

 

^


 



Dr_Oolen #8 Posted 10 January 2018 - 04:28 PM

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Funny how times change.

 

3 years ago i was complaining how all the maps were being littered with all kinds of minihills making it impossible for tanks without gun depression to play properly.

 

Fast forward to last year when practically all rebalances to tanks included buffing gun depression and turret armor, making hulldown by far the best tactic (and broken) to use in the game, making it so that not having gun depression and good turret is currently probably the biggest weakness a tank can have.

 

And now people are going to complain that all the tanks that became broken due to being able to go hulldown literally everywhere wont be able to do so anymore and that tanks that are now literally unplayable due to not having good turret and depression will become relatively better.



FluffyRedFox #9 Posted 10 January 2018 - 04:30 PM

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And on this episode of "WG has no f*cking clue what they're doing"

Aikl #10 Posted 10 January 2018 - 04:43 PM

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View Postfishbob101, on 10 January 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

And on this episode of "WG has no f*cking clue what they're doing"

 

Pfff, Steve the IS-7 driver approves!! :D

Cobra6 #11 Posted 10 January 2018 - 05:14 PM

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View PostDr_Oolen, on 10 January 2018 - 03:28 PM, said:

Funny how times change.

 

3 years ago i was complaining how all the maps were being littered with all kinds of minihills making it impossible for tanks without gun depression to play properly.

 

That was WG's first iteration of crude (and wrong) changes to make TD's and snipers as un-viable as possible by obscuring all Lines of Sight with terrain features.

However, removing good hull-down spots in useful (key) locations like with these HD maps is not the solution to the problem of them scattering terrain features everywhere to break LoS.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 10 January 2018 - 05:15 PM.


Enforcer1975 #12 Posted 10 January 2018 - 05:17 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 10 January 2018 - 03:48 PM, said:

No it's not a good idea at all. Good gun depression used to be a good advantage to have and a balancing point of a tank. If WG removes all good locations for tanks with gun depression they are basically effectively nerfing the combat capability of these vehicles.

 

Stop making every location viable for Steve the IS-7 driver, it does not help gameplay in the slightest.

 

Cobra 6

 

They already flattened out a big portion of maps many patches ago.

ExistanceUK #13 Posted 10 January 2018 - 05:40 PM

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The other side effect of all the flattening is there are less/shallower slopes for tanks with bad HP/T to struggle up.

KillingJoker #14 Posted 10 January 2018 - 06:11 PM

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Its an illusion, the maps height are more or less the same, but because you can see a lot more terrain behind the map, hills and stuff, the overal map will look "flater" 

 

 



ExistanceUK #15 Posted 10 January 2018 - 06:54 PM

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I'm not talking about the big terrain features like the hill on Mines or Himmelsdorf etc, yes most of those are untouched it's all the smaller bumps and lumps and depressions/dips that I'm worried about. Having said that I did think on the HD maps Sandbox that the mid ridge on Fiery Salient/Prokhorovka (or at least the depressions/dips on either side of it) seemed smaller. 

 

 


Edited by ExistanceUK, 10 January 2018 - 06:54 PM.


250swb #16 Posted 10 January 2018 - 07:08 PM

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Wouldn't make the flattening out of maps make gun depression even more effective? When you do get a good ridge position logically there will be more to shoot at?

jack_timber #17 Posted 10 January 2018 - 07:21 PM

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Well if they are flattening out the terrain then those tanks that have a "dozer blade" fitted should be now enabled to use them to dig themselves in. Make their own ridge lines or berms, lovely word that it just rolls off the tongue....

Just think about how a Strv 103b would perform then:)



Dr_Oolen #18 Posted 10 January 2018 - 08:02 PM

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View Post250swb, on 10 January 2018 - 07:08 PM, said:

Wouldn't make the flattening out of maps make gun depression even more effective? When you do get a good ridge position logically there will be more to shoot at?

 

More often than not what will happen is that rather than the ridge being quite pronounced - as in - one needing to drive back/forward maybe 5-15 meters in order to get completely safe/get proper shots, what will happen is that it will be way easier to get overexposed while trying to get a shot - if more tanks decide to just poke you you will now have to drive backwards 30-50 meters to get safe. On the other hand this can be an advantage when you are doing some sort of slow progressive poke where you can just keep driving slowly forward between shots and get more shots into enemies who are struggling to get safe while for them you are still/always hulldown.

 

Best example of this in action currently is imo mines where from south you can in this manner progress over the middle on the left side, but can also easily overextend and get rekt by the time you reverse into hulldown again. 



_T_1_T_4_N_0_ #19 Posted 11 January 2018 - 02:54 AM

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To be honest I don't think its going to make much difference as the HD is just a paint job of what is cyclic republishing of the same limited series of map meta.
The changes will prob make us all more on an even footing for a couple of weeks and the better players will quickly work out the 'unicum spots'.

Essentially its nothing new and the signal WG are sending the community for such an momentous release of WoT 1.0 isn't very exciting.
They have run out of ideas with maps and what you can do with 1km x 1km maps has prob already been done.
They are going to add some trees and flatten some hills, whoop, whoop, whoop going to buy me some special camouflage to celebrate that one.  

tajj7 #20 Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:42 AM

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From testing these maps in a Rasha med, basically all the maps seemed to have been made with Rasha tanks in mind IMO so your 907s, Obj. 140s, IS7s, IS3s etc. can easily find hull down spots all over the place. 

 

Using -5/-6 gun depression tanks used to be about good micropositioning and map knowldge, then your -10 gun depression tanks had a significant advantage in that they could hull down in way more places and that was a key strength. Map changes have already eroded this to a fair fit anyway, the HD maps will just take it further. 

 

Also flatter slopes and less elevation make it a lot easier for arty to hit you. 






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