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Arty and Light Tanks


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Good_Cat #1 Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:40 AM

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I'm not a great light tank driver but i know what i'm doing.

Im getting focused by arty a lot, they're not pre aiming on the corner for the heavies they are busy nuking me in a scouting spot or nailing me on the run.
 

the last 15 matches i've got hit by arty is it just scouts or are they focusing the tanks now with the thinest armor regardless of threat

 



Ankara_Aatu #2 Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:45 AM

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View PostGood_Cat, on 11 January 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

 are they focusing the tanks now with the thinest armor regardless of threat

 

This. Also a scout is a major threat on some maps if he's doing his job right.

 

Arty does very little damage to heavy tanks, so it's much more productive to shoot at less armored targets. Ideal targets in my opinion are paper TDs since they have big guns and are easy to hit and damage when spotted. Secondary target would usually be light tanks and lightly armored mediums. I will only shoot at heavily armored tanks if no better targets are available or if they are about to push or get pushed, or if I need to smoke someone out of a strong hull down position etc.



Cobra6 #3 Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:48 AM

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Arty players tend to be slower it seems in terms of adapting to their new role.

It's no longer the job of arty to do damage primarily like it used to (and good thing), it's their job to stun enemies and farm assistance damage that way.

 

A lot of arty players didn't get this memo and they seem to be mentally slower than the good players who've adapted. They shoot the light tanks or paper TD all the while their entire flank gets steamrolled by heavies which they should have actually been tracking and stunning for their team and then they lose the match because their target prioritisation is garbage and because they still think they need to do damage.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 11 January 2018 - 11:50 AM.


tajj7 #4 Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:50 AM

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This is because a large proportion of arty players have zero interest in team support and playing the role they are supposed to be doing, i.e slowing down armoured pushes. 

 

They basically want to see big numbers, they want to annoy people and grief people, so they'll go for the lightly armoured stuff as hitting them is their best chance of getting a full pen hit and their max damage rolls. 

 

It's always been like this, it's been a class favoured by trolls and greifers because they get to crap on people with impunity. They are called scumbags for a reason. 

 

Plus PMs are mainly damage focused as well, so the number of people playing arty as the team support vehicle it is supposed to be is actually tiny. It's just another reason it should be removed from the game. 


Edited by tajj7, 11 January 2018 - 12:09 PM.


Jigabachi #5 Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:58 AM

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There is no rule what tanks you are allowed to shoot. There are many scenarios where not shooting the heavies is a good tactic. After all, a light tank can still be a major threat, even after the rebalance.
But that isn't anything new, that's how things are since the start.

Lloyd5 #6 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:02 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 11 January 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

This is because a large proportion of arty players have zero interest in team support and playing the role they are supposed to be doing, i.e slowing down armoured pushes. 

 

They basically want to see big numbers, they want to annoy people and grief people, so they'll go for the lightly armoured stuff as hitting them is their best chance of getting a full pen hit and their max damage rolls. 

 

It's always been like this, it's been a class favoured by trolls and greifers because they get to crap on people with impunity. They are not called scumbags for a reason. 

 

Plus PMs are mainly damage focused as well, so the number of people playing arty as the team support vehicle it is supposed to be is actually tiny. It's just another reason it should be removed from the game. 

 

Holy sheet. Nail on the head +1

Cobra6 #7 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:05 PM

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This is why it was great that on the first Sandbox server all arty had 0 penetration on all HE shells. This greatly prevented arty from shooting low armoured tanks because they would never pen them. For some magical reason WG decided to not implement this which is a big mistake in hindsight obviously.

 

It would have been a great mechanic to force arty players to actually play the support role more than exclusively trying to deal damage.

 

Cobra 6



JCTagger #8 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:09 PM

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Gonna have to disagree with you there, Tajj...

The most recent updates to the arty PMs (I run a single arty line for this reason) have switched the bulk of the requirements to Stun-based, either assisted dmg points or duration in secs - It was ONLY this change that allowed me to drag my sorry scrub backside to successfully completing SPG-15-1! (I'd got to SPG-10-1 before the stun mechanic was introduced, then got stuck - Stun ftw!:amazed:

Also, I got through the whole SPG mission-set for the HTC in about a week, without leaning too hard on the one vehicle...

The change of emphasis from direct dmg to Stun forces the arty player (at least, the one who actually read and understood the instructions) into moving away from the outright dmg-farming described above, into a more tactically useful model, stunning, tracking and slowing the enemy, as described by Cobra6 ^^... This means you are supporting the team, as was the aim, but this ONLY works if the team then take advantage of your work - stunning the Red team's HTs only nets you any score at all if the Green tanks actually DO anything about it!


 

That said, I agree with Ankara_Aatu, in that there are times when I try to either counter-battery the Red team's arty, or camping TDs, as with the glacial re-load time that goes with high-ish tier Arty (like 30-ish seconds at tier VIII, where I am), that's the most reliable way of hurting the enemy team.



jadgboom #9 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:12 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 11 January 2018 - 11:48 AM, said:

Arty players tend to be slower it seems in terms of adapting to their new role.

It's no longer the job of arty to do damage primarily like it used to (and good thing), it's their job to stun enemies and farm assistance damage that way.

 

A lot of arty players didn't get this memo and they seem to be mentally slower than the good players who've adapted. They shoot the light tanks or paper TD all the while their entire flank gets steamrolled by heavies which they should have actually been tracking and stunning for their team and then they lose the match because their target prioritisation is garbage and because they still think they need to do damage.

 

Cobra 6

 

is that why less and a day after the nerf players were on here crying bout arty because they are so slow to get used to the nerf listen to yourself

Cassie_b #10 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:12 PM

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In defence of arty (I do play arty a bit)

Lights are a menace to arty - they're the ones who'll spot you and either kill you, or get you killed.

I mainly focus heavy pushes and/or camping TDs - but if I see a light getting dangerously close, or spotting half my team - I'll try to kill it.

 

Actually, the most satisfying aspect of arty play for me... is when a light thinks he's got you, and you manage to derp him in the face.

Doesn't work very often, but when you get it right.....:trollface:

 

 

 

***On a side note - the US-English spell-checker on this forum is beginning to annoy me.

For example, the correct English spelling of 'defence' getting flagged as a typo, causing me stop typing mid flow, and go back to check.



tajj7 #11 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:15 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 11 January 2018 - 11:05 AM, said:

This is why it was great that on the first Sandbox server all arty had 0 penetration on all HE shells. This greatly prevented arty from shooting low armoured tanks because they would never pen them. For some magical reason WG decided to not implement this which is a big mistake in hindsight obviously.

 

It would have been a great mechanic to force arty players to actually play the support role more than exclusively trying to deal damage.

 

Cobra 6

 

All HE pen should be set to zero IMO. 

 

 

View PostJCTagger, on 11 January 2018 - 11:09 AM, said:

Gonna have to disagree with you there, Tajj...

The most recent updates to the arty PMs (I run a single arty line for this reason) have switched the bulk of the requirements to Stun-based, either assisted dmg points or duration in secs - It was ONLY this change 

 

Yeh except you get higher levels of stun on lightly armoured targets and lightly armoured targets are obviously easier targets for your team mates to shoot at.

 

So if you have a mission to a certain amount of stun or a high level of stun damage, what are you going to shoot at, the light tank that you can pen, stun for 20s plus and everyone on your team is easily able to pen OR the Maus that you'll do like 10s of stun to, and most of your team can't pen?

 

Hit a grille 15 or a Leopard 1 your are far more likely to get your maximum stun amount and far more likely getting assistance damage than plinking away at a super heavy that will be bouncing most of the shots and not getting your any stun assistance.

 

I'd imagine most of the sun assistance arty gets on super heavies is from other arty because the stun duration is so short and those things bounce so much that the actual window to get stun assistance is tiny. 

 

 

 



DracheimFlug #12 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:16 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 11 January 2018 - 12:05 PM, said:

This is why it was great that on the first Sandbox server all arty had 0 penetration on all HE shells. This greatly prevented arty from shooting low armoured tanks because they would never pen them. For some magical reason WG decided to not implement this which is a big mistake in hindsight obviously.

 

It would have been a great mechanic to force arty players to actually play the support role more than exclusively trying to deal damage.

 

Cobra 6

 

That would make arty even more useless against heavies and give even more incentive to target lights.

Lord_Edge #13 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:17 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 11 January 2018 - 11:48 AM, said:

Arty players tend to be slower it seems in terms of adapting to their new role.

It's no longer the job of arty to do damage primarily like it used to (and good thing), it's their job to stun enemies and farm assistance damage that way.

The problem is, that's how it's supposed to work, not how it works.  One thing I have noticed from doing the arty campaign missions (/vomit) is that nine times out of ten if you stun/track a HT or assault TD your team will use that as their cue to pull back.

 

So I can understand why when presented with the option of doing 100 damage and 0 assistance to a HT/aTD some arty players instead opt to just do a lot more damage to a LT/MT/pTD.  It doesn't help that the gun upgrades for SPGs basically force you to choose between doing more alpha damage or doing more assistance >.>

 

-------

 

I always thought that if they want arty to become more team focused they should make it less damage focused, I.E instead of bigger guns doing more damage and firing slower they should make them do the same DPM but fire faster and add extra support ammunition types unique to arty that do no damage but provide assistance, I.E a smoke bomb shell that creates temporary cover, or an airburst shell that does no damage but reveals enemies in the detonation radius.



jack_timber #14 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:18 PM

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Wasn't there a similar thread earlier this week about same subject?

Anyways to hit a fast moving LT with arty, especially if you Ziggy zag, is somewhat difficult maybe splash them though.

 I know for sure I like to try and make ever shot count, direct hit or splash, so tend to concentrate on HT or TD if spotted.

There's nothing better than dropping a rather large shell onto a gaggle of HTs all crowded together..... Well it makes me smile:)



JCTagger #15 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:20 PM

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I hadn't actually approached it from that point of view, I must admit; given that gaining Stun dmg relies on one's team shooting the enemy - I tended to approach the missions by trying to slap the Red tonks as close to DIRECTLY in front of my own lead tanks as I dared, in the desperate hope that they'd get the point... I think it mostly happened by accident, though:sceptic:

 

Dunno if the higher PM sets require different priorities, though - can't see them yet...



Archaean #16 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:26 PM

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Whenever I play arty (and I do it to finish a shitty mission) I only aim at easy to pen weak spots.

 

Weak spot hit 1
Weak spot hit 2

 

 

Dou you see my nice f2p rounds?


Edited by Archaean, 11 January 2018 - 12:27 PM.


TankkiPoju #17 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:26 PM

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View Posttajj7, on 11 January 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

It's always been like this, it's been a class favoured by trolls and greifers because they get to crap on people with impunity. They are called scumbags for a reason. 

 

I think it says a lot when it's the arty players who drown when team loses.

 

How often do you see light tank players go drown? I don't remember a single time. But you see drowning arties very often.



DracheimFlug #18 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:27 PM

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View PostLord_Edge, on 11 January 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

The problem is, that's how it's supposed to work, not how it works.  One thing I have noticed from doing the arty campaign missions (/vomit) is that nine times out of ten if you stun/track a HT or assault TD your team will use that as their cue to pull back.

 

So I can understand why when presented with the option of doing 100 damage and 0 assistance to a HT/aTD some arty players instead opt to just do a lot more damage to a LT/MT/pTD.  It doesn't help that the gun upgrades for SPGs basically force you to choose between doing more alpha damage or doing more assistance >.>

 

-------

 

I always thought that if they want arty to become more team focused they should make it less damage focused, I.E instead of bigger guns doing more damage and firing slower they should make them do the same DPM but fire faster and add extra support ammunition types unique to arty that do no damage but provide assistance, I.E a smoke bomb shell that creates temporary cover, or an airburst shell that does no damage but reveals enemies in the detonation radius.

 

I think you mean a starburst shell. That would only be relevant if it was a night battle. An airburst shell would be fragmentation, essentially a larger radius splash with zero chance for a direct hit.

Cobra6 #19 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:28 PM

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View Postjadgboom, on 11 January 2018 - 11:12 AM, said:

 

is that why less and a day after the nerf players were on here crying bout arty because they are so slow to get used to the nerf listen to yourself

 

Those were indeed the slow adapters whining that they could no longer one-shot enemy tanks indeed. The guys focussing on damage rather than supporting their team, you are correct. They are the slow ones.

 

View PostDracheimFlug, on 11 January 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

 

That would make arty even more useless against heavies and give even more incentive to target lights.

 

Not at all, currently arty is already only doing splash damage to heavies so setting the pen to 0 would make absolutely no change to that. Against lightly armoured targets however it would make a massive change, they'd receive far less damage meaning it would be a good incentive for the arty player to then start engaging the biggest threat to the team/victory rather than the easy damage.

 

View PostLord_Edge, on 11 January 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

The problem is, that's how it's supposed to work, not how it works.  One thing I have noticed from doing the arty campaign missions (/vomit) is that nine times out of ten if you stun/track a HT or assault TD your team will use that as their cue to pull back.

 

So I can understand why when presented with the option of doing 100 damage and 0 assistance to a HT/aTD some arty players instead opt to just do a lot more damage to a LT/MT/pTD.  It doesn't help that the gun upgrades for SPGs basically force you to choose between doing more alpha damage or doing more assistance >.>

 

I've recently repurchased the S-51 (I sold it 5+ years ago) which I automatically unlocked from the KV-2 and I've got no problem with doing little damage in it. The stun is the thing that is my job and so far it has helped me increase my WR on that arty quite nicely.

 

Then again I always go for the most heavily armoured target available, you know the actual threat to my team and not the easy damage on lights/TD's. In other words, do my job in the first part of the battle, afterwards I go for lightly armoured stuff when all the actual threats have been taken out.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 11 January 2018 - 12:31 PM.


DracheimFlug #20 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:28 PM

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View PostTankkiPoju, on 11 January 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

 

I think it says a lot when it's the arty players who drown when team loses.

 

How often do you see light tank players go drown? I don't remember a single time. But you see drowning arties very often.

 

The lights are usually too quickly dead to bother drowning.




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