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Tanking /w Science! Aiming Compensation for Range & Shell Velocity


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4TankersAndDog_US #1 Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:13 PM

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Ever noticed how damn hard it is to hit fast ridge-surfing light tanks?  Well, let's talk...

 

ps, yes there are mods out there like BalCalcMod that modifies the automatic range/velocity compensation system so you can lock it at a given range. 

Google it and you'll find that it's in a WG legal grey area, YMMV...

 


[Previous episodes of TwS]

Dispersion vs. Depression

Complaint System Complaint

Mr. Robot

Automatic Aiming

Fun with Stun!

The 6th Sense

Snapshot & Smooth Ride

Crew Retraining

MM, Tiers and 'Toons

Purple vs. Gold

REPAIR

Win the Hill, Win the Game?

Spall Liners, Ctrl Impact, and Ramming

Camo (concealment)

Fuel, O.R., and Clutch Braking

Deadeye & Designated Target

GLD vs. Vents

GLD vs. VStab

 

Any suggestions for a future version of Tanking /w Science?  Please post them below or in the video comments, Good Hunting and Carry Hard my friends.



Aikl #2 Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:28 PM

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View Post4TankersAndDog_US, on 12 January 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

(...)

Any suggestions for a future version of Tanking /w Science?  Please post them below or in the video comments, Good Hunting and Carry Hard my friends.

 

First off, thanks for TwS!
I do have a suggestion. How much (presumably) does the accuracy value of a gun affect the 'real' dispersion on move and turret/hull traverse? I.e. looking for a way to calculate the real dispersion of e.g. a T100LT; which due to lacking final accuracy might be worse than e.g. a T-62A or E50M. Maybe it's not sciency enough, but it would serve to settle claims about the T100LT's amazing soft stats (which I suspect are far more impressive on paper than in battle).

A second suggestion could be to demonstrate the 'real' penetration of AP vs. APCR; i.e. how much worse APCR is. Judging from my topic about the matter, it's commonly known amongst the forumites, but I sure wouldn't mind more people being aware that e.g. the Patriot has a gun that performs rather similar to an STA-2 (judging from tanks.gg) due to lack of normalization. Shoot an IS-3 frontally at short range for a decent 'yard stick' situation.



Nishi_Kinuyo #3 Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:22 PM

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4tankersanddog is the best Community Contributor out there imo. :girl:

Thank you for all your hard work so far; I'm looking forward to future installments.



Dava_117 #4 Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:36 PM

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View Post4TankersAndDog_US, on 12 January 2018 - 05:13 PM, said:

Ever noticed how damn hard it is to hit fast ridge-surfing light tanks?  Well, let's talk...

 

ps, yes there are mods out there like BalCalcMod that modifies the automatic range/velocity compensation system so you can lock it at a given range. 

Google it and you'll find that it's in a WG legal grey area, YMMV...

 


[Previous episodes of TwS]

Dispersion vs. Depression

Complaint System Complaint

Mr. Robot

Automatic Aiming

Fun with Stun!

The 6th Sense

Snapshot & Smooth Ride

Crew Retraining

MM, Tiers and 'Toons

Purple vs. Gold

REPAIR

Win the Hill, Win the Game?

Spall Liners, Ctrl Impact, and Ramming

Camo (concealment)

Fuel, O.R., and Clutch Braking

Deadeye & Designated Target

GLD vs. Vents

GLD vs. VStab

 

Any suggestions for a future version of Tanking /w Science?  Please post them below or in the video comments, Good Hunting and Carry Hard my friends.

 

Really intresting. I allways tought that pointing at infinity would disable the automatic compensation (like in Arma3 where you can point your telemeter to the sky to remove the compensation) and used the reticule to aim! Nice to know how much I was wrong! :teethhappy:

Edited by Dava_117, 12 January 2018 - 06:36 PM.


AliceUnchained #5 Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:23 PM

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View PostAikl, on 12 January 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

A second suggestion could be to demonstrate the 'real' penetration of AP vs. APCR; i.e. how much worse APCR is. Judging from my topic about the matter, it's commonly known amongst the forumites, but I sure wouldn't mind more people being aware that e.g. the Patriot has a gun that performs rather similar to an STA-2 (judging from tanks.gg) due to lack of normalization. Shoot an IS-3 frontally at short range for a decent 'yard stick' situation.

 

That depends on the absolute difference between the AP and APCR round, and impact angle; the more oblique the impact angle, the more that normalization effect matters. Using that T26E5 and STA-2 as examples for comparison (T26E5 first, then STA-2):

 

Armor plate 100 mm thick struck at 30º impact angle (before normalization): ~113,26 mm vs. ~110,34 mm

 

Armor plate 100 mm thick struck at 45º impact angle (before normalization): ~136,73 mm vs. ~130,54 mm

 

Armor plate 100 mm thick struck at 60º impact angle (before normalization): ~188,71 mm vs. ~174,34 mm

 

Armor plate 100 mm thick struck at 70º impact angle (before normalization): ~266,95 mm vs. ~236,32 mm

 

N.B. At 70º both would ricochet, as ricochet is determined before normalization. But for ease of calculation I've used the limit striking angle.

 

One of the biggest flaws in WoT is that normalization still occurs at higher oblique impact angles, where in reality partial deflection would occur.


Edited by AliceUnchained, 12 January 2018 - 10:59 PM.


4TankersAndDog_US #6 Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:32 PM

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View PostAikl, on 12 January 2018 - 08:28 AM, said:

 

First off, thanks for TwS!
I do have a suggestion. How much (presumably) does the accuracy value of a gun affect the 'real' dispersion on move and turret/hull traverse? I.e. looking for a way to calculate the real dispersion of e.g. a T100LT; which due to lacking final accuracy might be worse than e.g. a T-62A or E50M. Maybe it's not sciency enough, but it would serve to settle claims about the T100LT's amazing soft stats (which I suspect are far more impressive on paper than in battle).

A second suggestion could be to demonstrate the 'real' penetration of AP vs. APCR; i.e. how much worse APCR is. Judging from my topic about the matter, it's commonly known amongst the forumites, but I sure wouldn't mind more people being aware that e.g. the Patriot has a gun that performs rather similar to an STA-2 (judging from tanks.gg) due to lack of normalization. Shoot an IS-3 frontally at short range for a decent 'yard stick' situation.

 

So let me get this straight, you want to see and compare the gun aiming circle size during movement between the E-50M, T-62A and T-100lt, to get a feel for the interaction between the accuracy stat and bloom soft-stats, and therefore which is better at on-the-move snap-shots, right?

 

Hull movement won't be really possible, since there's no way to pin the cruise control to the same km/h speed for the 3 vehicles.  Hull rotation and turret rotation, sure, that's quite doable.



Aikl #7 Posted 12 January 2018 - 07:49 PM

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View Post4TankersAndDog_US, on 12 January 2018 - 06:32 PM, said:

 

So let me get this straight, you want to see and compare the gun aiming circle size during movement between the E-50M, T-62A and T-100lt, to get a feel for the interaction between the accuracy stat and bloom soft-stats, and therefore which is better at on-the-move snap-shots, right?

 

Hull movement won't be really possible, since there's no way to pin the cruise control to the same km/h speed for the 3 vehicles.  Hull rotation and turret rotation, sure, that's quite doable.

 

More or less, yes. It's not about the specific vehicles in particular, but rather to get a feeling for what the soft stats actually tell us. We know, for instance, that the aim time is defined (going by memory now) as the time it takes for the aiming circle to shrink by 2/3rds. The goal would be to get a similar definition for the dispersion values.

In its simplest form, it would probably be C=A*D*T (C=Circle size, A=(final) accuracy, D=dispersion modifier, T=traverse/speed of the tank/turret).

Certain tanks with multiple gun combos might do the trick for determining whether final accuracy 'linearly' determines the aim circle size when dispersion is applied; simple cruise control should be able to determine whether the speed (T) linearly determines the aim circle size.

 

Pardon the unclear language, my last math courses were in the wrong language and a decade ago. Oh, and whether it's of any practical relevance is doubtful; beyond satisfying certain people's curiousity.

 

 

 



Liviguy #8 Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:46 PM

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Just like to say that i enjoy your work Tankers, you do great stuff. Cheers

4TankersAndDog_US #9 Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:29 PM

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View PostAikl, on 12 January 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

 

More or less, yes. It's not about the specific vehicles in particular, but rather to get a feeling for what the soft stats actually tell us. We know, for instance, that the aim time is defined (going by memory now) as the time it takes for the aiming circle to shrink by 2/3rds. The goal would be to get a similar definition for the dispersion values.

In its simplest form, it would probably be C=A*D*T (C=Circle size, A=(final) accuracy, D=dispersion modifier, T=traverse/speed of the tank/turret).

Certain tanks with multiple gun combos might do the trick for determining whether final accuracy 'linearly' determines the aim circle size when dispersion is applied; simple cruise control should be able to determine whether the speed (T) linearly determines the aim circle size.

 

Pardon the unclear language, my last math courses were in the wrong language and a decade ago. Oh, and whether it's of any practical relevance is doubtful; beyond satisfying certain people's curiousity.

 

 

 

 

Okay, so to get a feel for how soft-stats effect accuracy (when moving), comparing a list of tanks that have the same soft-stats but different accuracies, and also comparing a list of tanks with the same accuracies but different soft-stats.  Sounds amusing, will put it on the to-do list.

shane73tank #10 Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:02 AM

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How about shell types , what to fire and when ? There’s loads of info out there re apcr v ap , heat etc but a simplified guide could really help people remember things like drop off over distance etc, in the current super heavy meta I think this would be timely

 

great stuff btw 


Edited by shane73tank, 13 January 2018 - 10:03 AM.


8126Jakobsson #11 Posted 15 January 2018 - 10:04 AM

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Thank you for your time. 




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