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Erlenberg Assault - Broken


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snuble #1 Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:01 PM

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This game mode is no longer possible to defend if enemy have any clue on how to play. The ridge under houses (west of the eastern hill) is broken (E8?). It counters any defender trying to hold center of city/river. It also counters the eastern hill, effectivly forcing the defenders into corner and north of house hill. Any defender trying to hold bridge/town at cap will be shot from multiple directions. West is still a death trap for defenders, so attackers can easy get to the bush at north covering cap. This forces soft tanks into corner of map, and they have no shots on anything apart from yoloing tomatoes.

 

9/10 games in this game mode is played in this way now.



brumbarr #2 Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:31 PM

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yup, defenders almost have no chance to win, if they cant counterpush the north they will lose the game 100%.

Scabolcz #3 Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:41 PM

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wait, really? I thought it was the other way around... Guess I'm too used of seeing my whole team dying trying to cross the A-B bridge.

brumbarr #4 Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:50 PM

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View PostScabolcz, on 13 January 2018 - 11:41 PM, said:

wait, really? I thought it was the other way around... Guess I'm too used of seeing my whole team dying trying to cross the A-B bridge.

 

yeah, the meta used to be n favour of the defenders, but since the attackers realised that if  they take the east side early on, the defenders wont go west and then the attackers have control over both sides and can crossfire the defenders.

KillingJoker #5 Posted 14 January 2018 - 12:24 AM

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View Postsnuble, on 13 January 2018 - 11:01 PM, said:

This game mode is no longer possible to defend if enemy have any clue on how to play. The ridge under houses (west of the eastern hill) is broken (E8?). It counters any defender trying to hold center of city/river. It also counters the eastern hill, effectivly forcing the defenders into corner and north of house hill. Any defender trying to hold bridge/town at cap will be shot from multiple directions. West is still a death trap for defenders, so attackers can easy get to the bush at north covering cap. This forces soft tanks into corner of map, and they have no shots on anything apart from yoloing tomatoes.

 

9/10 games in this game mode is played in this way now.

 

You can counter any atempt to rush to E8, by going E6 area near the middle bridge...

from there is very hard for the assault team to hit you, and you have excelent vision for both flanks, and even the objective bridge... 

 

any team trying to assault the hill on F0 will struggle because you have easy side shots from E6, and building also cover you from assaulting tanks from the otherside of the river...

 

if the enemy team doesnt have any super well armored vehicle to force to cross the objective bridge, its very hard to assault...

 

So i think the this mode in Erlenberg is ok, unlike Sand River, wich is a pain to win if your playing assault... almost everytime the defense wins , specialy if there is arty..

 

 



ZlatanArKung #6 Posted 14 January 2018 - 12:41 AM

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Isn't the meta that Defender's just rush their side and win it. And then enemy have a hard time to do anything.

Brodie_ #7 Posted 14 January 2018 - 01:03 AM

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It is mainly about the battle for the East side of the map now.

If the defenders do everything right. 

Then they win!

 

However!

If the defenders leave a few key positions unmanned!

Then a good attacking team can easily defeat them. 

 

If the defenders do not have tanks in the middle to stop the attackers controlling the Western side of the Eastern ridge then a competent attacking team have them!

 

If they can stop that however. The lower Hull down position on the extreme East side of the map allows the defenders to win the 9 line with ease!

Once they have the 9 line & heavy with brains camping near base for spotting purposes. 

It is over. 

 

It is very team dependent right now. 

Though a good defense is in my view very hard to beat. 


Edited by Brodie_, 14 January 2018 - 01:04 AM.


Enforcer1975 #8 Posted 14 January 2018 - 02:57 AM

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View Postsnuble, on 13 January 2018 - 11:01 PM, said:

This game mode is no longer possible to defend if enemy have any clue on how to play. The ridge under houses (west of the eastern hill) is broken (E8?). It counters any defender trying to hold center of city/river. It also counters the eastern hill, effectivly forcing the defenders into corner and north of house hill. Any defender trying to hold bridge/town at cap will be shot from multiple directions. West is still a death trap for defenders, so attackers can easy get to the bush at north covering cap. This forces soft tanks into corner of map, and they have no shots on anything apart from yoloing tomatoes.

 

9/10 games in this game mode is played in this way now.

 

If you know how to play you can win from both sides provided your team has less muppets than the enemy team.

Both positions you mentioned can both counter eachother. If they can shoot you you can shoot back. West is lost because the players never go there "because reasons". I had so many games where you barely encountered defenders in the west it's no surprise attackers win those games most of the time when the defenders give away half the map and hide in the northeast corner. It's too easy to get into the cap circle and force their hand. Sometimes you get superlucky as a defender like in this game....doesn't mean it will work most of the time. I have been on both ends.


Edited by Enforcer1975, 14 January 2018 - 03:06 AM.


Wintermute_1 #9 Posted 14 January 2018 - 03:19 AM

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Turned off assault specifically because of Erlenberg

Edited by Wintermute_1, 14 January 2018 - 03:20 AM.


_T_1_T_4_N_0_ #10 Posted 14 January 2018 - 04:30 AM

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To be honest I don't think its the map or mode as its actually a map that needs a strategy.
That is a problem and a sad fact that in the current meta that isn't going to happen.
The team scurries around like lab rats with no defined corridors and the map highlights that it is a test for lobotomized ones at best.
I have seen the defenders throw this mode quite often purely because they don't seem to understand those last minutes where already won and that final kill charge was just... !
Often the tactics are this half & half affair where irrespective of mode the only thought is "I like this spot"

Its a bit like Lakeville when the base is in the city and essentially there is absolutely no advantage to the canyon but at times more than half the team will go that way.
You could say the map is broken but personally I think its often the experience / skill level often on display.
The lemming charge balls of steel, brain of mush commonality often is a sight of awe and try is you might you just get pulled into the confusion.
Its so rare that a team will have clue on how to play this map that I don't think its the map that is broken.

When the game was new the tier progression system acted as a pseudo skill  / experience filter where it had an effect of setting meta in a top down thinning dispersion of players.
Game age means that just doesn't exist anymore and hence why we prob get these repetitive corridorised lab rat maps that pose little question.

  

Edited by DumbNumpty, 14 January 2018 - 04:38 AM.


tank276 #11 Posted 14 January 2018 - 08:18 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 13 January 2018 - 10:50 PM, said:

 

yeah, the meta used to be n favour of the defenders, but since the attackers realised that if  they take the east side early on, the defenders wont go west and then the attackers have control over both sides and can crossfire the defenders.

 

You said it right, IF the attackers realise they have to take the eastern road.

Most of the time they clogg up west and get stopped at the Northern bridge.



brumbarr #12 Posted 14 January 2018 - 11:03 AM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 14 January 2018 - 12:41 AM, said:

Isn't the meta that Defender's just rush their side and win it. And then enemy have a hard time to do anything.

 

View Posttank276, on 14 January 2018 - 08:18 AM, said:

 

You said it right, IF the attackers realise they have to take the eastern road.

Most of the time they clogg up west and get stopped at the Northern bridge.

 

nah, most of the time, atleast in the tiers I play ( tier8-10), the attackers go east with enough tanks to stop the defenders from pushing, and a lot of the times with even more so then can even attack that flank.

 

Yes muffin, thats what the meta used to be, but now it has changed. This is what happens in  70% of the games:

Minimap:

Spoiler

First off, the defenders have realised that if they go 1-2 line they will all be killed there, the enemy has advantagous positions on that flank and almost always wins that flank even if defenders go there. So defenders dont go 1 2 line anymore. What used to happen is the defenders would instead push the 9 0 line, kill of the assaulters there and then camp the ridge. This is what the meta used to be and it was in favour of the defenders.

 

However, now the attackers have realised that they dont need to send many tanks to the 1 2 line, since there will be almost no or no enemies there, so just send a few to take that flank. Instead, the attackers now send a big number to the 9 0 line to hold it. They will have tanks at G and H 9 and you can not push those tanks due to tanks at F0. As a defender, its now almost impossible to push out the 9 0 line. And when attackers can easily push this line as they have even more advantagous locations, they can take the E9 position, a hulldown position that counters E0, than the atttackers can start pushing. IN the meanwhile, the defenders have no mapcontrol, they can only sit in 4 locations: D0, C0, B6 and A0.

Position C0 can hold off attackers but when spotted gets wrecked from the attackers across the river, when that is cleared, they push D0, which is now in a pincer between the 0 line and the snipers acorss the river.  Meanwhile  B6 is trying to hold off the enemies with help of  A0. But with spotters and snipers from  D8/9. The TDs on A0 are spotted and the people on B6 shot in the back. 

 

THis is what happens at higher tiers all the time and there isnt much you can do about it.

 

TLDR: Defenders dont go west, attatckers take west and defend east. Defenders have no mapcontrol , defenders are in crossfire, they lose.



ZlatanArKung #13 Posted 14 January 2018 - 11:12 AM

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View Postbrumbarr, on 14 January 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

 

 

nah, most of the time, atleast in the tiers I play ( tier8-10), the attackers go east with enough tanks to stop the defenders from pushing, and a lot of the times with even more so then can even attack that flank.

 

Yes muffin, thats what the meta used to be, but now it has changed. This is what happens in  70% of the games:

Minimap:

Spoiler

First off, the defenders have realised that if they go 1-2 line they will all be killed there, the enemy has advantagous positions on that flank and almost always wins that flank even if defenders go there. So defenders dont go 1 2 line anymore. What used to happen is the defenders would instead push the 9 0 line, kill of the assaulters there and then camp the ridge. This is what the meta used to be and it was in favour of the defenders.

 

However, now the attackers have realised that they dont need to send many tanks to the 1 2 line, since there will be almost no or no enemies there, so just send a few to take that flank. Instead, the attackers now send a big number to the 9 0 line to hold it. They will have tanks at G and H 9 and you can not push those tanks due to tanks at F0. As a defender, its now almost impossible to push out the 9 0 line. And when attackers can easily push this line as they have even more advantagous locations, they can take the E9 position, a hulldown position that counters E0, than the atttackers can start pushing. IN the meanwhile, the defenders have no mapcontrol, they can only sit in 4 locations: D0, C0, B6 and A0.

Position C0 can hold off attackers but when spotted gets wrecked from the attackers across the river, when that is cleared, they push D0, which is now in a pincer between the 0 line and the snipers acorss the river.  Meanwhile  B6 is trying to hold off the enemies with help of  A0. But with spotters and snipers from  D8/9. The TDs on A0 are spotted and the people on B6 shot in the back. 

 

THis is what happens at higher tiers all the time and there isnt much you can do about it.

 

TLDR: Defenders dont go west, attatckers take west and defend east. Defenders have no mapcontrol , defenders are in crossfire, they lose.

So soon, defenders will take castle again.

Or just play more aggressive on the 0-9 line.

 

My biggest problem in the few defending Erlenberg games I have had at T9 is that my team mates refuse to attack the attackers on the 0-9 line.

Meaning, either I manage to kill them with 12-13 tanks camping behind maybe 1 or 2 tanks helping in the push.

If we win the push, we win, if not, we lose.

If more of these 12-13 tanks found their W-key you could always dig out, since you have more tanks. Usually like 5+ more tanks.

But it seems that at T9 the defenders are contempt with camping in the corner.



brumbarr #14 Posted 14 January 2018 - 11:16 AM

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View PostZlatanArKung, on 14 January 2018 - 11:12 AM, said:

So soon, defenders will take castle again.

Or just play more aggressive on the 0-9 line.

 

My biggest problem in the few defending Erlenberg games I have had at T9 is that my team mates refuse to attack the attackers on the 0-9 line.

Meaning, either I manage to kill them with 12-13 tanks camping behind maybe 1 or 2 tanks helping in the push.

If we win the push, we win, if not, we lose.

If more of these 12-13 tanks found their W-key you could always dig out, since you have more tanks. Usually like 5+ more tanks.

But it seems that at T9 the defenders are contempt with camping in the corner.

 

Problem is that the defenders have worse positions on the castleside than the enemy does.

And you cant really play more aggresive on the 9 0 line since the enemy is hulldown and has you in a crossfire. 

 

The only way is a coordinated push where people dont care of they take a few hits to clear the 9 0 line. But coordinated push in randoms, yeah :p



KillingJoker #15 Posted 14 January 2018 - 11:46 AM

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To win Erlenberg defense: 

 

- place a super heavy sidescraped near the cap bridge, spoting for the 1 or 2 TDs' that will be camped in the bushes at A0

 

with 3 tanks only, you can pretty much lock any advancing atempt using the bridge...

 

other keyposition is the E6 area around the middle bridge, that area is crucial to have vision on the both flanks, and you can pretty much controll the acess for the middle bridge

you have excelent hull down positions and you can pretty much supress fire any TD camped in the ridge on the west bank of the river... you can also sideshot any hill climb atempts from the right flank.... a medium with a good turret and excelent rate of fire will do great at E6 ( i once won a sniper badge in my KV2 in this exact position....) 

http://wotreplays.eu...llingjoker-kv-2

 

 

 

so... all it takes is; 3 or 4 competent players , smart enough to block the middle and the cap bridges, and the assault team will have serious trouble

 


Edited by KillingJoker, 14 January 2018 - 11:59 AM.


brumbarr #16 Posted 14 January 2018 - 11:49 AM

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View PostKillingJoker, on 14 January 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

To win Erlenberg defense: 

 

- place a super heavy sidescraped near the cap bridge, spoting for the 1 or 2 TDs' that will be camped in the bushes at A0

 

with 3 tanks only, you can pretty much lock any advancing atempt using the bridge...

 

other keyposition is the E6 area around the middle bridge, that area is crucial to have vision on the both flanks, and you can pretty much controll the acess for the middle bridge

you have excelent hull down positions and you can pretty much supress fire any TD camped in the ridge on the west bank of the river... you can also sideshot any hill climb atempts from the right flank.... a medium with a good turret and excelent rate of fire will do great at E6 ( i once won a sniper badge in my KV2 in this exact position....) 

http://wotreplays.eu...llingjoker-kv-2

 

so... all it takes is; 3 or 4 competent players , smart enough to block the middle and the cap bridges, and the assault team will have serious trouble

 

 

That doesnt help though, as you will still lose the 9 0 line, your E6 guy cant help them without getting shot and he is goingto get pushed by someone at some point and has 0 support.  The heavys will get flanked by the  D8 position and the assaulters can shoot all the enemies from everywhere.

 

There is no way to win this map unless the enemy makes a mistake or  your team does a coordinated push.



Toni112007 #17 Posted 14 January 2018 - 12:10 PM

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I think the best bet for defenders to win is to not go at castle side of map at all. Just defend one side of river (meds on hill and heavies near cap). I won many times like that in heavy tank by camping/sidescraping near base.

Edited by Toni112007, 14 January 2018 - 12:13 PM.


Holdes #18 Posted 14 January 2018 - 12:15 PM

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There's an Assault mode in WoT? Ah yeah, turned it off ages ago.

ArgentHellion #19 Posted 14 January 2018 - 12:18 PM

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View PostHoldes, on 14 January 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

There's an Assault mode in WoT? Ah yeah, turned it off ages ago.

 

+1 ... end of discussion.

Toni112007 #20 Posted 14 January 2018 - 12:18 PM

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View PostArgentHellion, on 14 January 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

 

+1 ... end of discussion.

+1 here as well.






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