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Solutions to the drowning "problem"


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BP_OMowe #1 Posted 15 January 2018 - 11:22 AM

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Apart from the obvious of simply ignoring it (which is the level of attention it actually deserves), there are a few other things that can be done.

 

View PostCobra6, on 13 January 2018 - 09:21 AM, said:

It's very simple:

As a normal player you should not be accidentally drowning yourself more than once every 3 months or so. Seriously in 8 years of playing I've accidentally drowned maybe 10 times in total.

 

So:

If you drown more than 1 time every 3 months every subsequent drown should result in 0 credits and 0 XP for that battle you drown in.

 

Far too complicated, and frankly causing more issues than it solves as while a really good player might never misjudge a bridge-passage to river fording, it happens far more frequent to average and bad players...  and they form the large majority of the player base.

 

No one agrees to be an xp-pinata to the enemy team by pressing the battle-button, and those who chose to drown themselves instead of waiting around for the enemy to finally find them and put them out of the misery of a battle long lost have my full understanding if not my sympathy.

 

The main problem with drowning suiciding by other means than enemy fire is that it detracts from the battle result and possibly screws over those to complete missions.

Hence the hp lost in the destroyed vehicle as well as the kill should be credited to the enemy team by default, either to the closest, a random player or some other combination.



Obsessive_Compulsive #2 Posted 15 January 2018 - 11:29 AM

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what?

Aikl #3 Posted 15 January 2018 - 11:32 AM

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I can smell some intentional misjudgement of bridge crossings; pretty sure you don't turn blue by default if you bump someone into the river (if you even get credited for the TK).

 

Instead of drowning you'd probably get people driving off cliffs or bridges; and artillery still has the option of shooting a wall in front of it.



8126Jakobsson #4 Posted 15 January 2018 - 11:40 AM

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A drowned tank still has hp that you can shoot away but it doesn't count. At least turn that on so one can properly water farm it. For the drowner I liked Keyhand's proposal of a tank lock for an hour or 24.

spamhamstar #5 Posted 15 January 2018 - 11:40 AM

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View PostBP_OMowe, on 15 January 2018 - 10:22 AM, said:

Apart from the obvious of simply ignoring it (which is the level of attention it actually deserves), there are a few other things that can be done.

 

 

Far too complicated, and frankly causing more issues than it solves as while a really good player might never misjudge a bridge-passage to river fording, it happens far more frequent to average and bad players...  and they form the large majority of the player base.

 

No one agrees to be an xp-pinata to the enemy team by pressing the battle-button, and those who chose to drown themselves instead of waiting around for the enemy to finally find them and put them out of the misery of a battle long lost have my full understanding if not my sympathy.

 

The main problem with drowning suiciding by other means than enemy fire is that it detracts from the battle result and possibly screws over those to complete missions.

Hence the hp lost in the destroyed vehicle as well as the kill should be credited to the enemy team by default, either to the closest, a random player or some other combination.

 

Preferred Cobra's idea & I really don't think the above is any simpler or resolves the issue of player getting screwed over for missions or badges. 

 

What if I'm going for a radleigh walters medal in my tier x, but a tier 8 scout happens to be closet to the last remaining enemy maus when he decides to suicide?  In all likelyhood I would have got the kill rather than the tier 8 scout, but your system would award the kill to him just for being closer.

 

What about players that suicide at the start of a battle based on xvm giving them no chance?  Who gets the kill/xp/credits then?  In my opinion if you suicide you should forfeit any xp or credits as you really don't deserve them.  Now we just need a system that can tell the difference between deliberate & accidental deaths as cobra suggested.



250swb #6 Posted 15 January 2018 - 11:53 AM

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It's simple, the drowned players crew dies, but the tank becomes inactive rather than dead, so still 'alive' and available for the enemy to shoot for all the HP. If the drowned player then leaves the game he'll get the 'desertion' warning and if he does it often enough the auto ban for going afk kicks in (WG could perhaps decrease the tolerance for this to make it happen sooner). So now they are faced with having to sit the battle out or risk triggering an auto ban, so they won't suicide (as often).

HeinrichVonDoucheberg #7 Posted 15 January 2018 - 11:55 AM

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Just make the repair costs x5 for those that suicide (drowning and also arty splashing himself by shooting the wall). For those that do it by accident, paying x5 repair cost once in several hundred games won't hurt much, but for those miserable bastards that do it often, well that will sting their credit balance, as it should.

Balc0ra #8 Posted 15 January 2018 - 12:02 PM

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Here is the thing. I've not drowned in ages, or that often. But I've seen others push enemy tanks into the water or off a cliff. And mostly they get credit for it. But at times, they don't. As the one that got pushed off, did it to him self according to the game. Just like you can get blamed for a TK, because the light touched your tank for 0.32 seconds before he fell over the bridge that don't fit 2 tanks at the same time.

 

So tbh, neither solution would work. OP's point don't really fix anything, nor will it stop people from doing it, even if you get the XP for it. As it's a quick way to the garage more so then denying you XP. And the other one would give to many false positives to work well enough on that time frame of 3 months.  Even if you do take how close the enemy is when he drowns. Some areas have a long fall before you drown, and you can slide away to increase the distance vs the enemy tanks if you get blamed for it. Even if you got pushed. Like on Cliff or El halluf. Where I see it the most. As the last time I got blamed for drowning. I got pushed over on cliff by an enemy Type 4 that did not get credit for it. As it don't work 100% of the time. And some get pushed more then others like that for it to work the way you want it to.

 

As atm drowning works the same way as idle "as in zero input all game, not camping base" or when you leave the battle before you are destroyed. As the system that destroys the tank if left alive when you win. Do it often enough, and you get sanctioned for it. Issue is that you can do way to many times in a row before the warning even comes. It should be after the first one tbh. As no one drowns that often on their own accord pr day vs if you put it once every 3 months. And if you doubt it works. By all means. Go drown yourself a few games in a row and let me know how long it takes before you get zero XP. As again.. it will happen. But it's way to gentle atm. And gives you to many games before it happens, even in a day. And that's where the issue is. The zero XP penalty don't happen fast enough. As it's as broken as the Team damage in a platoon. As then, they all get 3 shots each. Not 3 as a platoon.


Edited by Balc0ra, 15 January 2018 - 12:03 PM.


Jigabachi #9 Posted 15 January 2018 - 12:06 PM

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1. If you suicide (drowning isn't the only way to achieve that), you get a message in the garage: "Dear tank commander. You suicided. That's bad, but craphappens. Learn to play so that it doesn't happen again. If you did that deliberately and if it will happen more often, you'll get banned.

2. Flag every suicider for X matches and/or X days. If it happens again within that timeframe, he'll get zero rewards from that match and the repaircosts are 3 times higher. Hell also get another flag and another message: "Dear tankcommander. You suicided again. That's bad. Seriously, learn to play. Last warning."

3. If it happens again, the player gets a 24h ban and he'll get a malus on his rewards for a week. If it keeps happening, the bans and mali will be longer/higher and the suicided vehicles will get a lock for Xd.

4. The second flag should be visible in the team list.

 

Major problem: Opens the doors for abuse, so that needs to be taken into account.


Edited by Jigabachi, 15 January 2018 - 12:07 PM.


KLguns #10 Posted 15 January 2018 - 12:40 PM

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How about putting an IQ captcha on login, so that we dont get those 0-15 games in 1-3 minutes...so then there is no need for suicide when you are the last one alive.

mani_the_blyatoris #11 Posted 15 January 2018 - 04:38 PM

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View PostKLguns, on 15 January 2018 - 12:40 PM, said:

How about putting an IQ captcha on login, so that we dont get those 0-15 games in 1-3 minutes...so then there is no need for suicide when you are the last one alive.

 

Then this game would lose 90% playerbase.

WhoCares01 #12 Posted 15 January 2018 - 05:20 PM

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View Postmani_the_blyatoris, on 15 January 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

 

Then this game would lose 90% playerbase.

 

... and all arty players - win-win, I'd say!

:arta:



ZlatanArKung #13 Posted 15 January 2018 - 05:25 PM

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View PostBP_OMowe, on 15 January 2018 - 11:22 AM, said:

Apart from the obvious of simply ignoring it (which is the level of attention it actually deserves), there are a few other things that can be done.

 

 

Far too complicated, and frankly causing more issues than it solves as while a really good player might never misjudge a bridge-passage to river fording, it happens far more frequent to average and bad players...  and they form the large majority of the player base.

 

No one agrees to be an xp-pinata to the enemy team by pressing the battle-button, and those who chose to drown themselves instead of waiting around for the enemy to finally find them and put them out of the misery of a battle long lost have my full understanding if not my sympathy.

 

The main problem with drowning suiciding by other means than enemy fire is that it detracts from the battle result and possibly screws over those to complete missions.

Hence the hp lost in the destroyed vehicle as well as the kill should be credited to the enemy team by default, either to the closest, a random player or some other combination.

It is a good incentive to get less gifted players to learn how to cross the bridges of Erlenberg without drowning.



ZlatanArKung #14 Posted 15 January 2018 - 05:26 PM

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View PostKLguns, on 15 January 2018 - 12:40 PM, said:

How about putting an IQ captcha on login, so that we dont get those 0-15 games in 1-3 minutes...so then there is no need for suicide when you are the last one alive.

Because 1; It wouldn't change number of 0-15 results are 3 minute battles.

2; It would result in waaaaaaaay fewer players, and soon, a pretty dead game.



Long_Range_Sniper #15 Posted 15 January 2018 - 05:26 PM

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I personally think that taking the average number of suicides per game over the server and setting an upper limit way over the most useless driver and having that as a threshold for a warning, then a ban is a pretty simple idea.

 

If that's too complicated then what about the folowing?

 

In terms of suicide, if it's a drowning then not only cancel their XP for that game, but share it equally amongst the enemy team still alive. Then dock any XP earned in their next game by 50%, and zero crew experience. This is akin to turning blue in that you'd have to do one more game to get your XP back to 100%, just like you have to do a few games without team damage to not be blue. 

 

If you drown intentionally or by accident then at worst you lose XP for one game, and only get 50% for the next. If you're a serial drowner then you'll halve the time you take to grind anything and I'm sure you'll get annoyed never getting crew XP.



Strappster #16 Posted 15 January 2018 - 05:27 PM

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Give suiciding arty players the ability to float. If you attempt to set sail in your SPG three times, the game automatically closes at the end of the third battle and launches World of Warships as you'd clearly rather be playing that.

Hellfoxe #17 Posted 15 January 2018 - 05:43 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 15 January 2018 - 12:06 PM, said:

1. If you suicide (drowning isn't the only way to achieve that), you get a message in the garage: "Dear tank commander. You suicided. That's bad, but craphappens. Learn to play so that it doesn't happen again. If you did that deliberately and if it will happen more often, you'll get banned.

2. Flag every suicider for X matches and/or X days. If it happens again within that timeframe, he'll get zero rewards from that match and the repaircosts are 3 times higher. Hell also get another flag and another message: "Dear tankcommander. You suicided again. That's bad. Seriously, learn to play. Last warning."

3. If it happens again, the player gets a 24h ban and he'll get a malus on his rewards for a week. If it keeps happening, the bans and mali will be longer/higher and the suicided vehicles will get a lock for Xd.

4. The second flag should be visible in the team list.

 

Major problem: Opens the doors for abuse, so that needs to be taken into account.

 

1. Never happen 

2. Bad iea

3. Punishment for suicide is harder then punishment for cheating.

4.  You create same problem like the blu color for teamkilling.

 

 


Edited by Hellfoxe, 15 January 2018 - 05:48 PM.


T_H_F #18 Posted 15 January 2018 - 08:34 PM

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I have end in water 4-5 times, not by choice, but borderline drivning where i mis'ed the line i could not get up again...so its not always by choice.... ones i lost connection/laggs ,then i got the line/signal back again, i was up in the water, dead,,,

So be careful, not always a delribrate actions...



Erwin_Von_Braun #19 Posted 15 January 2018 - 08:48 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 15 January 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

I personally think that taking the average number of suicides per game over the server and setting an upper limit way over the most useless driver and having that as a threshold for a warning, then a ban is a pretty simple idea.

 

If that's too complicated then what about the folowing?

 

In terms of suicide, if it's a drowning then not only cancel their XP for that game, but share it equally amongst the enemy team still alive. Then dock any XP earned in their next game by 50%, and zero crew experience. This is akin to turning blue in that you'd have to do one more game to get your XP back to 100%, just like you have to do a few games without team damage to not be blue.

 

If you drown intentionally or by accident then at worst you lose XP for one game, and only get 50% for the next. If you're a serial drowner then you'll halve the time you take to grind anything and I'm sure you'll get annoyed never getting crew XP.

 

That's actually a good idea.

But, as someone else has pointed out, the drowners would suddenly start believing their tanks could fly.


 



Torkyturpa #20 Posted 15 January 2018 - 08:54 PM

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So much talk about a non-issue! What really drives me crazy is the Red team that shoots at my hard earned tank.

 

As to myself being the last survivor in an arty, I try to have one last shot at the first enemy tank that finds me. I tried drowning once following the example of a team mate but somehow that did not give the same satisfaction as blasting the last shell in the face of an approaching enemy, or at least in that general direction.






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