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Update 9.22 Public Test Feedback - Soviet TD changes

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Kandly #1 Posted 16 January 2018 - 07:10 PM

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Commanders,

 

Please share your feedback regarding the Soviet TD changes in Update 9.22's Public Test in this topic.

 

Cheers,

Kandly



fighting_falcon93 #2 Posted 19 January 2018 - 02:22 PM

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Please don't move the Obj.263 to tier 9!

 

If you think that Obj.263 is consistent enough to sit on tier 9, I say it's total bullcrap that it needs to be moved in the first place. If you think that Obj.263 is too weak for tier 10, then buff it, but keep it at tier 10 and stop removing variety from the game!

 

Why can't you add the Obj.268V4 as an additional tier 10 TD instead?

 

Moving Obj.263 to tier 9 is a very, very bad change, mainly because:

 

  • Obj.263 is a unique vehicle of its class in tier 10 games. Not only does it offer unique gameplay compared to other tier 10 TDs, out of 11 TD branches currently in the game, only 4 of them has a tier 10 TD with an alpha below 600 damage. And with this change you want to change that 4 into a 3.
  • Obj.263 fits into the branch perfectly. It has low alpha compared to other TDs, just like the other tanks in the branch. It has good mobility and a rear mounted gun with bad gun depression, just like the other tanks in the branch. You even want to keep Obj.263 yourself in the branch, isn't that proof enough that the vehicle fits the branch? So why move it to tier 9? You started by removing tanks that didn't fit in other branches, now it seems you're editing branches left and right just because you can.
  • Obj.263 costs 692'710 xp to unlock, if we count the xp all the way from the start of the branch. Do you have atleast an idea of the amount of time a player has to put in to grind all that xp? And those players that decide which branch they want to grind depending on the tier 10, which tank do you think they wanted when they started the grind? Exactly, they wanted the Obj.263, not something else.

 

Let's see what you want this line to become:

 

Update 9.22 Preview—USSR Tree Revision

  • High forward and backward mobility combined with medium maneuverability, which lets them quickly reach and occupy key positions and retreat back to safety
  • Good frontal armor to deflect enemy shells, but weak side armor and lower front plates
  • Average damage per shot with a high reload time to compensate for mobility and protection
  • Accuracy and aiming time balanced to make them effective at short-to-medium range, but also reduce their effectiveness at long range
  • Poor elevation angles due to historical design

 

What you described above is exactly what the Obj.263 is, except it has a better gun. So you want to "fix" an unpopular line by making it even worse? Hello?!?!?!

 

Players have made it very clear that this is not what they want. Take a look in this thread at the Russian forum. That's currently 91 pages of discussion where players are very unhappy with this change. Take a look at this other thread at the Russian forum. That's currently 12 pages of discussion where players also are very unhappy with this change. Take a look around on your own European forum, how happy does players seem about this change? WG, if you proceed with this change, never ever dare to say that you listen to your players feedback again.

 

Instead, I have 2 other suggestions for you:

 

 

 

WG, you say that you listen to our feedback. Now is the time to prove that!

 

 

If you agree that Obj.263 should remain at tier 10 with either its current stats or buffed stats, please repost the image above to show your support. Don't forget how WG wanted to destroy the BatChat branch, and now they want to do it again with the Obj.263 branch. We managed to stop them then, and if we protest loud enough, we might be able to stop them again.

 

#KeepObj263AtTier10 :izmena: :izmena: :izmena:



killershott001 #3 Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:01 PM

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#KeepObj263AtTier10

Sfinski #4 Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:52 PM

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263 is at wrong tier. 

Lentomies1 #5 Posted 19 January 2018 - 03:57 PM

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View PostSfinski, on 19 January 2018 - 04:52 PM, said:

263 is at wrong tier. 

 

​Yeah.... weird....

:sceptic:



Brodoodle #6 Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:04 PM

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After playing the obj 268 v4 it feels very underwhelming especially when if you now have the obj 705a which has the 650 dmg gun and play almost the same but the 705a is better at it. And if you want to be a td that pushes and gets in the thick of it I would just play a t110E3 as that at the end of the day just does what the 268v4 wants to do (effective at short-to-medium range) but better.

For the obj 263 now at tier 9 it no longer has anything special seeing it now just only has a 550 dmg with ok dpm which makes it feel like a worse Jagdtiger. 

Overall I feel that this is a mistake as the 263 line was something new and unique compared to all other lines with its great dmp and armour that if used correctly can be very effective.

 

As a suggestion If you want to change the line to make people play the line more personally what was the biggest factor that discourage me form getting the 263 was the awful su 101 and  su 122 54. But once I got past the Su 122 54 and bought the Obj 263 It hands down has become my most enjoyable tank to play in mainly because of it UNIQUE play style.

 

#KeepObj263AtTier10  


Edited by Brodoodle, 19 January 2018 - 05:30 PM.


vromanjan #7 Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:16 PM

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#KeepObj263AtTier10

Bravo_youBlowUpYourBrain #8 Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:19 PM

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#KeepObj263AtTier10 

 

 

 


sutyomatic #9 Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:30 PM

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The O263 with the jakuzzi and the cheese LFP can go to Tier 9 for all I care.

 

Give the O268 V4 an alternative gun choice or completely replace the 152mm derp.

 

130mm with 560-600dmg per shot and good DPM (somewhat lower then the Badger).



thetopcat #10 Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:33 PM

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#KeepObj263AtTier10 

Huntyman #11 Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:36 PM

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Oh god, where to start...

Once again, we are witnessing WG at its finest. Some time ago, when first details of this change leaked, I was really annoyed. I wanted to grind an Object 263, a mobile TD with low alpha, fast rate of fire (compared to other tier X TDs), decent camo rating and great frontal armor. A TD, that is unique, because no other line offers this mixture (well maybe French TDs, but they have an autoloader). You can imagine my shock when I saw what WG intends to to with it... 15 second reload? I was like what the hell? When I played 263 on test server back then, it had reload of 9 seconds! I mean... an Object 704 reloads faster than this, and it has 750 alpha and better penetration.

Okay I said, maybe they will change their mind, after all this is just an idea. And after 2 weeks, it actually happened... a develpment director himself stated that this decission to move 263 to tier IX was a bad idea. (source: https://ritastatusre...changes-update/). I thought: YES!! This is the best decission WG could make with it. So I happily purchased a SU-101 and continued on.

But Wargaming didn't disappoint... their motto should be: Say one thing, do the exact opposite. And here we go...test 9.22 is here and guess what: Object 263 is at tier IX with those garbage stats. But what is worse: The replacement, the Object 268v4, is absolutely useless... 14,5 second reload?? Joking, right? 650 alpha? Ugh, at least its unique. Mobility? Mediocre at best... Cammo? Not bad, not good either.

Seriously WG, why should I grind this line, when I can have Obj. 268?? It has better penetration, better alpha, better camouflage, amd the mobility is not bad either.

Wake up already, this is bad and you are not going to make change for good. Leave this line as it is, or replace the Su-122-54. But don't touch the 263. I don't want another generic TD that is not unique in any way.

#KeepObj263AtTier10                    #Don'tTouchThisLine        #ListenToUsAlready!!!



Sesrex #12 Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:46 PM

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#KeepObj263AtTier10 

TsundereWaffle #13 Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:54 PM

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#KeepObj263AtTier10  

The Tier 9 263 is absolute garbage. Just make the 263 an alternate Tier 10 TD and keep the SU-122-54



Celution #14 Posted 19 January 2018 - 05:25 PM

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There is too much to be listed, really.. Extremely lousy balancing decisions with complete lack of logic.

 

  1. The grind from the SU-100M1 to the SU-101 is STILL a complete pain in the [edited]since the gun unlocked on the SU-100M1 (that is even required now) is NOT transfered to the SU-101, so you're at tier 8 grinding a turretless TD with 175/217 pen. WHY is this?
  2. The SU-101 is a complete mess. You start off grinding at tier 8 (thus facing plenty of tier 10s) with 175/217 pen, followed by a gun that has 219/330 (HEAT spam). Then comes a 122 mm that has 210/248 pen and finally a gun that is competitive (penetration-wise) with 258/340. HOWEVER, all of these guns are completely derpy and have DPM values lower than that of tier 7 TD's.
  3. Going on, the entire branch features these derpy accuracy values. Your argument that this forces the tanks into close-mid range combat makes sense from a numerical point of view, but from a practical view is complete nonsense. You notice this with the LT's as well, you can't brawl if your gun blooms like mad, since you need reliable accuracy in order to hit weakspots, drive sprockets and so on.
  4. Combine the above with extremely poor gun depression values across the entire branch, makes for a platform that wants to stay at range, since gun depression is less noticeable at range than it is up close.
  5. The Object 263 is a pure tier 10 platform, and has nothing to do in tier 9. Imagine facing that tank in a tier 7 for example. Downtiering it also ruined one of the most awesome and unique tier 10 TD's out there.
  6. The Object 263 at tier 9 gets a gun that features MORE AP penetration than the IS-7, but LESS APCR pen? We're talking about a TD here, it has no turret and its counterpart, the Jagdtiger, gets similar AP pen (slightly higher), and a whopping 352mm APCR pen, whereas this ruined machine gets only 300, which isn't enough to contest most overbuffed armour profiles at all.
  7. The Object 268 v4 is a complete turd with yet another overbuffed armour profile. If you are so inclined on removing the SU-122-54 from the branch, then this tank was the perfect candidate to take its place at tier 9, with the HISTORICAL armor values. Give it the 130 mm S-70A from the Object 263 as top gun, and you have an awesome tier 9 TD, that also makes sence as it was a rejected Object 268 design, thus it shouldn't be its counterpart. The ridiculous armour it has now, in combination with a trash gun but such mobility is just a complete unhistorical joke.

 

#KeepObj263AtTier10  



Uebergewicht #15 Posted 19 January 2018 - 05:36 PM

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I dont think I can add much, everything has been said for months now since the plans for this change were announced. All the arguments, alternative proposals... We DO NOT want a derpy, low dpm tank with gold magnet armor on top of that line!

 

KeepObj263AtTier10 



NIborGER #16 Posted 19 January 2018 - 05:43 PM

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My opinion on the 268V4 after testdriving it a bit and trying to give it a fair chance (I love my 263, so maybe some bias here)

I tried to play it aggressively in close combat and sneak in shots close range and "sidescrapping" occasionally

 

The Good:

  • it has decent top speed and accelerates quickly.
  • its armor layout is fitting. Its not an e3 but compensates that with speed. Lots of armor in the front, but a easy pen from the side. For matchmaker-reasons I would suggest a weaker coupola. otherwise this will dominate T8s too much. Its already a small weakspot.
  • The penetration ... well its a T10 TD
  • Gun-dispersion on the move/traverse

The Bad:

  • Traverse speed. How is anyone supposed to go and brawl with a tank that has no turret and no traverse speed? This is the biggest killer for me. The accuracy and armor suggest you should play this tank close range, but that traverse kills you if you get somewhat close to an enemy.
  • limited gun traverse range - kills you when you try to play this aggressive.
  • The gun: underwhelming DPM and Alpha. The combination of low DPM and mediocre alpha is another reason why you cant play this tank that aggressive. You need either of it to stop enemys from rushing you down. Especially in a turretless TD. No clue how this gun performs at range.

Edited by NIborGER, 19 January 2018 - 06:08 PM.


Boris_Kiril99 #17 Posted 19 January 2018 - 06:19 PM

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KeepObj263AtTier10    dont change it     D:<



Easha #18 Posted 19 January 2018 - 06:26 PM

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View PostEasha, on 11 January 2018 - 02:25 PM, said:

So let us sum up the changes of the TD line using the SU-101 as an example:

 

1) You have a great camouflage so you could snipe from invisibility.

Too bad you will not hit anything thanks to the new dispersion. Or would deal any damage, thanks to still somewhat meh penetration values for a TD. As if your DPM would give you any chances to try often enough.

 

2) Your armour got buffed and you get more HP, so you are more durable and ready for close combat!

It's not like you have a choice, you are forced into it by your softstats. You still cannot withstand three 390 alpha shots unlike the other melee TDs (JT 8.8/Ferdinand/T28 with 1.500, ). You gun will not make up for it, because your gun is worse than the ones of heavie tanks you would have to brawl there. If we assume the lower glacis might be a weakspot: Have fun hiding it without a turret and 3° gundepression.

 

3) But Wargaming says you should flank with this vehicle!

Flanking? At the current maps? To get outturned by any medium counter thanks to your new great traverse speed?

 

4) If you are lowtier... (That will not happen, becaue we improved the matchmaking!)

 You could try to snipe I mean flank, I mean brawl, I mean... you... you......let us just skip this point, shall we?

 

We definitely needed a nerf of the outstanding and overperforming SU-101. Becaue consistency. Admit you wanted it players! We know you did! We listened to your feedback as we always did, do and will do in the future!


Yours sincerely,

 

Easha

 

P.S.: I am not salty at all. Too bad World of Warships is down, because I emptied the oceans there.

 

As expected:

You have virtually NO choice but to use the togun now, the 100mm DPM playstyle is completely gone. The lower glacis is hard as ice in the depths of hell - T6 tanks have no problems of penetrating it. It's not like they have to, though: With that traverse speed even heavy tanks can outflank you - without tracking you first. The upper armour is definitely somewhat harder, but still does not pose any problems to VIII guns - unless you could use your gundepression... just wait to get farmed.

 

Keep the whole branch as it was (not just the T10), all of the changes are utterly useless. You ruined the uniqueness of a DPM TD line and instead we got no brain, no gain boomstick TDs. Definitely what the community was asking for. The full fledged nerf of the SU-101 will definitely encourage players to grind that line as you planned.

 

Edit: if you want the change, start with an alternate branch at T IX, keep the DPM for SU-100M1/SU-101/SU-122-54/Obj. 263 and only increase the armour and lower the DPM for the last 2 new tanks at 9 and 10. Inconsistent but playable.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Easha


Edited by Easha, 19 January 2018 - 06:32 PM.


Dr_Oolen #19 Posted 19 January 2018 - 06:46 PM

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View PostNIborGER, on 19 January 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

My opinion on the 268V4 after testdriving it a bit and trying to give it a fair chance (I love my 263, so maybe some bias here)

I tried to play it aggressively in close combat and sneak in shots close range and "sidescrapping" occasionally

 

The Good:

  • it has decent top speed and accelerates quickly.
  • its armor layout is fitting. Its not an e3 but compensates that with speed. Lots of armor in the front, but a easy pen from the side. For matchmaker-reasons I would suggest a weaker coupola. otherwise this will dominate T8s too much. Its already a small weakspot.
  • The penetration ... well its a T10 TD
  • Gun-dispersion on the move/traverse

The Bad:

  • Traverse speed. How is anyone supposed to go and brawl with a tank that has no turret and no traverse speed? This is the biggest killer for me. The accuracy and armor suggest you should play this tank close range, but that traverse kills you if you get somewhat close to an enemy.
  • limited gun traverse range - kills you when you try to play this aggressive.
  • The gun: underwhelming DPM and Alpha. The combination of low DPM and mediocre alpha is another reason why you cant play this tank that aggressive. You need either of it to stop enemys from rushing you down. Especially in a turretless TD. No clue how this gun performs at range.

 

WG got it completely wrong as usual. Any actually competent and knowledgable player that understands how the game works would tell them that pretty much the only reasonable way how to balance brawling vs "support" is by giving brawling tanks lower alpha and high dpm with great maneuvrability while support tank  due to the natuer of that way of play requires higher alpha with lower dpm. What does WG do? Gives a "brawling" tank low dpm, bad maneuvrability and semi good alpha, basically making it, thanks to the armor it has, much better support/sniper than a brawler.

 

You want to brawl? Oh here, please be unable to angle fast against various enemies and be unable to get your gun pointed at enemies, and then sit there uselessly until next reload for ages. Meanwhile if you just go snipe at 400+ meters the armor is so broken you can just sit there and laugh as nothing can pen you unless they magically hit one of the pennable spots with gold while you can comfortably snipe under such conditions with 650 alpha and 2.8k dpm because the accuracy, shell speed and pen are more than good enough for that. 

 

Only WG can set out to make a "brawling" tank which is actually much better at sniping, and better at that than most of the supposedly "sniping" tanks at that tier... lmao

 

Aside the retardation of in the first place moving 263 down a tier, what the 264 should look like (if they want it to be a brawling td) is 550 alpha, 0.42 acc, 3.6k dpm, 32 hull traverse and 200 cupola and the lfp being bigger and +- 240. With shell speed of like 800 m/s. But oh wait, thats basically what 263 was at t10, except with better accuracy but overall worse armor, so less of a brawler, but still more of a brawler than this abomination.


Edited by Dr_Oolen, 19 January 2018 - 06:51 PM.


FelixJG #20 Posted 19 January 2018 - 07:26 PM

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Object 268 V4

This tank isn't far from filling the niche the Object 263 will leave behind, but right now its DPM and accuracy leave it trailing behind the other tier 10 tank destroyers, I believe the following changes should be made

 

Reload: 17 seconds to 13.5 seconds

its reload is identical to the T110E3 with 100 less alpha and its DPM is 800 lower than the current object 263, changing the reload to 13.5 seconds will give it DPM above the 750 alpha TD's but below the current Object 263 to account for the alpha increase and ability to mount vents

Accuracy: 0.42 to 0.35

Its accuracy is among worst in class currently with lower alpha as well, changing it to 0.35 makes it more comfortable than most high alpha TD's without taking the role from the badger, STRV's and grille.

 

with these adjustments I believe the tank would be more balanced, fun to play and a worthy replacement for the Object 263, fulfilling the same role as it once did.

 

EDIT:

Giving everyone who owns an Object 263 an "Object 263B" from this picture as a reward tank with original tier 10 stats would also solve this whole issue easily.

https://gyazo.com/0e...0a487e6cb51d8ad

 


Edited by FelixJG, 19 January 2018 - 09:25 PM.






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