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So the new french HT's...

AMX M4 51

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_EXODUZ_ #1 Posted 22 January 2018 - 12:52 PM

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How come that T9 AMX M4 51 is so unpopular after all? You barely see 'em in randoms. People who had decent DPG's have dropped their numbers.

I understand that 65 t is total crap, but you would think that people got over it.  So, if you got one, why aren't you enjoying it? If you didn't, what stops you from doing so?



kdaag #2 Posted 22 January 2018 - 12:58 PM

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T9 reminds me of a Mutant, very bounce but only against lower tiers. Tier X gold shoot straight through my turret. Side is awful!

 

 

 

 

120mm is a nice gun but nothing special, haven't tried the big gun.


 

The problem with the tank is that playing it is pretty boring. It has no defining characteristics and is just pretty good at everything...



soul3ater #3 Posted 22 January 2018 - 01:41 PM

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I do actually play them a lot, and its quite fun tbh. I see people using the smaller gun to the apcr pen and the faster reload. But i think that's wrong imo, i mean i could just play my conquerer if i wanted fast reload with low DMG per shot. Beware thou, although  the turret is decent heat will wreck your gun mantlet which is a joke. Its men tank but i do enjoy it using the higher calibre gun.

Celution #4 Posted 22 January 2018 - 01:42 PM

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You barely see them as both the AMX M4 Mle 45 (tier VII) and AMX 65t (tier VIII) are absolute trash, besides that the ARL44 (tier VI) is nothing to write home about either. Furthermore, the tier 10 is nothing special since the gun that would make it unique (130 mm) is just not viable due to a lack of penetration to deal with the reigning armour meta, and the 120 mm is a bit lacking compared to similar guns on other tanks available.

 

So in other words, the AMX M4 Mle 51 (tier IX) is just a good tank stuck in between a poorly balanced/unviable branch of tanks. Very similar to for example the Object 263 and ST-I.


Edited by Celution, 22 January 2018 - 01:58 PM.


Dava_117 #5 Posted 22 January 2018 - 02:06 PM

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It's just a line of failed HT.

It can't really tank up damage and don't teach anything usefull on HT gameplay. It's a generic "point armour to enemy and pray it's enough" tank line.

The few I met in battle were easy to take down, thanks to the cupolas. They can't wriggle the turret or hull to protect the cupolas because the sides are butter too.

If they had less frontal armour but better sides, let-s say like E75, they would be intresting, IMO.



Zelar_Wicked #6 Posted 22 January 2018 - 02:19 PM

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I really enjoy the AMX M4 54 with 130mm gun, fun tank to play. Good gun handeling makes it fairy easy to hit weakspots even for me.

Frontal armor and mobillity is really good, many just dont know where to shoot it since its so rare so you block alot.

 

 



Rico_Shay #7 Posted 22 January 2018 - 02:43 PM

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Almost every time you get hit by a HE shell you will get a dead crewmember.  Doesnt matter if it is a he shell from a tier 7 Comet or a tier 10, you will always lose a crewmember 

leggasiini #8 Posted 22 January 2018 - 02:53 PM

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Main problem is that the AMX 65t is a gigantic piece of trash and I wouldnt be surprised if most people ragesold it. The AMX M4 54, while quite fun with the big gun, is not particularly good tank either, and quite often a top tier that isnt attractive enough draws people off from that line, even if there is "gems" on the line. Not to mention that the ARL is quite bad, and the AMX M4 45 is also another terrible tank.

 

I feel like the AMX M4 51 was kind of tank that was extremely strong after first week it was released because people didn't know how to deal with it. The thing is, it doesnät just have armor, but it also has all around a good gun and fairly solid mobility on top of that, so in the first week from the release the armor worked exceptionally well, making the tank as whole stupidly powerful and was a big contributor why people did so well with it. That being said, it is all arounder and very flexible so it is still a very capable tank in good hands.

 

I think it's still a very good tank. Its just that the line around it is just so bad that people are not interested in it. If the tier 10 vehicle was like it, then it would likely be different, but it's tier 9, which people generally are less interested about (even though the tier 9 is a very good tier in many regards). Among with that, the tank itself is not like super special in terms of being unique. It more or less is a pretty similar tank to the Conqueror and M103.



Cobra6 #9 Posted 22 January 2018 - 03:18 PM

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For lots of people both the AMX 45 and AMX65 are *utter and total garbage* and that is quite the hurdle, do not underestimate how much that can not make you give a sh@t about a new line if there are two free-XP sinks in it.

 

The AMX M4 49 should have been the regular Tier 8 tank and the AMX 65 should have been the premium, we all know that but WG decided to put another turd in this line.

Both in looks and playstyle the AMX M4 49 is exactly what the tier 9/10 are and the AMX65 is not.

In all of their recent PR blabla Wargaming has been clear they want to make lines consistent and then for the sake of rampant greed they make the tank which fits the line a premium and the tank that doesn't fit the line at all the regular tank.

 

These two compulsory XP sinks are also the reason why I absolutely don't give a damn about this line at all, it's just too much of a needless hurdle in playing them as both tanks are simply not fun to play and the grind takes forever if tanks are not fun to play.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 22 January 2018 - 03:22 PM.


Balc0ra #10 Posted 22 January 2018 - 03:19 PM

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I suspect the tier 8 grind has something to do with it. It's the reason why I don't have it yet. As I can't stand to grind it. On a break from it atm. If it could do the listed speed vs going 27 all over. It might be more bearable. It has worse mobility then the Type 4, and paper armor on the hull still.

Edited by Balc0ra, 22 January 2018 - 03:20 PM.


Isharial #11 Posted 22 January 2018 - 04:03 PM

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the T8 is gawdawful, the T9 is great though HOWEVER, you cant angle it, the tracks wont absorb the shots, and the side isn't going to bounce much

try to angle enough to hide your front cheeks, and your side is free xp, don't do that, and you have cheeks that are easy pen...


 

its at its best when hull down, or wiggling, but you risk giving easy shots on your cheeks if you do that


 

I think of the M4 51 as a T9 T29, and it works well that way


 

and whoever said the M4 45 is bad isn't playing it right



vixu #12 Posted 22 January 2018 - 04:17 PM

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T7 was nice. T8 was so bad, I had to free-exp it. T9 is ok, but something totally strange with the game lately. I am getting intolerably bad teams last couple of weeks. And in T10 games average t9 HT does not carry. On top of it, 2/3 players are gold-spamming. For that setup the tank is simply too slow and too big. 



Cobra6 #13 Posted 22 January 2018 - 04:54 PM

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View Postvixu, on 22 January 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

 I am getting intolerably bad teams last couple of weeks. And in T10 games average t9 HT does not carry. On top of it, 2/3 players are gold-spamming.

 

Why do you think Wargaming has been dramatically over-buffing armour the past year? They *want* everyone to be spamming gold to drain their credits faster and to protect bad players by artificially keeping them alive far longer than they should.

 

The only way to stop this trend is to stop firing premium ammo collectively so Wargaming has to properly balance armour for standard ammo, not premium ammo.

 

Cobra 6



dimethylcadmium #14 Posted 22 January 2018 - 05:00 PM

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1. There are a lot more interesting tank lines to grind

2. They are not among the best HT's in their tiers

3. Conqueror is better than the Tier 9 frenchie

4. Terrible grinds up to Tier 9, IMO worse than Churchill line

 

the competent players who play them have Free XP'd the line anyway.


Edited by dimethylcadmium, 22 January 2018 - 05:01 PM.


adameitas #15 Posted 22 January 2018 - 06:18 PM

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pls dont say t9 is bad too:) i still didnt elite t65 (even with all those 5x, 2xfor every win, 3x) and already almost lost all the interest in that line. damn even elited t65 looks worse then stock tank.. I mean is there anything good about t65?

Sfinski #16 Posted 22 January 2018 - 06:46 PM

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View Postadameitas, on 22 January 2018 - 07:18 PM, said:

pls dont say t9 is bad too:) i still didnt elite t65 (even with all those 5x, 2xfor every win, 3x) and already almost lost all the interest in that line. damn even elited t65 looks worse then stock tank.. I mean is there anything good about t65?

 

T9 is awesome. Prob one of the most strongest t9 tanks in the game right now. T10 is meh. 

 

65t has, uuuhm, gun depression? "Biiiig" alpha, 10 more than soviets get at t7... 65t has nothing going for it really. Except free xp, that went for it and a lot of it. 



8126Jakobsson #17 Posted 22 January 2018 - 06:54 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 22 January 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

For lots of people both the AMX 45 and AMX65 are *utter and total garbage* and that is quite the hurdle, do not underestimate how much that can not make you give a sh@t about a new line if there are two free-XP sinks in it.

 

The AMX M4 49 should have been the regular Tier 8 tank and the AMX 65 should have been the premium, we all know that but WG decided to put another turd in this line.

Both in looks and playstyle the AMX M4 49 is exactly what the tier 9/10 are and the AMX65 is not.

In all of their recent PR blabla Wargaming has been clear they want to make lines consistent and then for the sake of rampant greed they make the tank which fits the line a premium and the tank that doesn't fit the line at all the regular tank.

 

These two compulsory XP sinks are also the reason why I absolutely don't give a damn about this line at all, it's just too much of a needless hurdle in playing them as both tanks are simply not fun to play and the grind takes forever if tanks are not fun to play.

 

Cobra 6

 

An additional hurdle for me is the lack of a crew. A second French HT line means a second French HT crew. Yeah I'm not going to go through that for something that just feels meh to begin with. Maybe if they made me want to spend time with the FCM. But that's still a big maybe. 

fwhaatpiraat #18 Posted 22 January 2018 - 07:55 PM

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View PostCobra6, on 22 January 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

The only way to stop this trend is to stop firing premium ammo collectively so Wargaming has to properly balance armour for standard ammo, not premium ammo.

 

Cobra 6

 

We all know this is not going to happen soon. Premium ammo is one of, if not the the biggest cash cow for WG.

 

As mentioned before, the tier 6, 7 and 8 are trash. Although I have never played the new amx 65t, if this thing had good mobility, it would be less trash I think. With its current mobilty this thing is a sitting duck. If the mobility was between fcm 50t and amx 50-100, it might be enjoyable because the gun and gun depression can be used.

 

But there are more reasons why the line is not so popular (also counts for Chinese TDs I suppose): there are nowadays so many tank lines and tanks to play. Since I started playing this game, the amount of tank lines more or less doubled. Experienced players might be saturated if they have 200 or more tanks in their garage already. It might even be good for the game that we don't see these tanks really often. The introduction of flavor of the month tanks will always result in an unnaturally high population of these tanks, spoiling the balance (and fun!) for people that do not free xp towards these new tanks.

 

Also, if the French tier 9 and 10 heavies were one big façade (lol) of 350mm effective frontal armor, it would be problematic. Underlying issue is how this game is balanced: people are attracted to the strongest tanks and tanks that don't fit the meta (or just plain terrible) are despised, skipped with free xp and/or just forgotten. Examples are the obj.263 line (except 263), some Chinese medium tanks and the French tds to name a few. Also the way how armor is balanced around premium ammo is weird stupid. The new French tier 9 and 10 heavies can be really bouncy versus standard ammo. But versus 325mm apcr or 330/340 heat shells they evaporate quickly. Also counts for the Japanese bukkake heavy tanks. As long as premium ammo stays in its current state (with its current 'drawbacks' ) these tanks remain really hard to properly balance gameplay-wise.

 

The tier tier 9 amx seems fun to play, but I have more tanks on the wish list, so it has to wait. :)

 

 



sgtYester #19 Posted 22 January 2018 - 11:56 PM

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its a decent tank and a nice grind.. but like others have said...  its kinda bland

i am not wasting xp on the big gun , les pen, longer reload gold pen is low, etc not worth it imo  especially sinces its not needed for the tier 10,  wasting 60k on a 180k grind... dont think so.

 


Edited by sgtYester, 23 January 2018 - 12:05 AM.


TankkiPoju #20 Posted 23 January 2018 - 01:59 PM

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Seems pretty common to me, but maybe most early adopters already grinded to tier 10.





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