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Your current views on Arty tanks?

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Innapropriate_Username #21 Posted 24 January 2018 - 09:49 AM

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View Postthekirbyfake, on 23 January 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

If they have 3 arties, you have 3 arties.  Get your meds to spot theirs and get your arties to do anti-artillery.  Call out the general area they hit you from and let us do the rest.  The tracer gives them away.

 

Hide behind something.  Building.  Big rock.  If we can't see you, we can't hit you.

 

Hmmm, after 20+ second reload, try to blind-fire on arty....

OR

Take secure shot on Juicy target of opportunity.

 

This is not a team game, and 90% players dont care about team... or IF they do care, can be distracted at that moment and miss on something on the other side of the map.

Arty is unbalanced class that has a lot of problems, I spent too much time debating it in other threads, but I sum it down to "satellite cheat view" and unlimited view/shoot range.

 

edit; there is NO HIDING from arty in this game lol, not if you want to play it.

Arty is like a Tax, when the time runs out - somebody is going to buy it. The more game drags on, more dmg harvested by arty.

 

 


Edited by Innapropriate_Username, 24 January 2018 - 09:54 AM.


Darth_Clicker #22 Posted 24 January 2018 - 10:22 AM

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View PostBludsuager, on 24 January 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

 

No, just slow large tanks in general really. I don't see why arty should have the advantage of having the option to remove a map type if other classes aren't able to as well

 

I agree.  If I choose my GW E100, FV207, SU-14-2 or another big, slow arty I know that there is a chance that I will be but on Ensk for example where there is a good chance I will be spotted moving from spawn and never have a chance.  It is a fact of life in war.  The same if I am in my obj 261 I might get Himmelsdorf where I am really limited to where I can get some targets to shoot at due to the flat shell trajectory.  There is good and bad for every class in the game.

Darth_Clicker #23 Posted 24 January 2018 - 10:29 AM

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View PostInnapropriate_Username, on 24 January 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

 

 

Arty is like a Tax, when the time runs out - somebody is going to buy it. The more game drags on, more dmg harvested by arty.

 

 

For me this is not true.  I find that I get more damage early in the battle because I have more available targets in the open.  Late in the battle there are fewer targets because there aren't many enemy tanks left, or because there aren't many friendly tanks to spot for me....either case, I have fewer targets.  Plus late in the battle, it is more likely to have friendly tanks close to the enemy tank and I don't want to damage my team...so I dont shoot unless I feel it is safe to do so.

 

But, your statement could be true for every class.  It is logical that the longer the battle time the greater the opportunity to earn damage...after all, you can't earn damage after the battle unless you meet up down at the pub and fight...lol.



Innapropriate_Username #24 Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:07 AM

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View PostDarth_Clicker, on 24 January 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

For me this is not true.  I find that I get more damage early in the battle because I have more available targets in the open.  Late in the battle there are fewer targets because there aren't many enemy tanks left, or because there aren't many friendly tanks to spot for me....either case, I have fewer targets.  Plus late in the battle, it is more likely to have friendly tanks close to the enemy tank and I don't want to damage my team...so I dont shoot unless I feel it is safe to do so.

 

But, your statement could be true for every class.  It is logical that the longer the battle time the greater the opportunity to earn damage...after all, you can't earn damage after the battle unless you meet up down at the pub and fight...lol.

 

Arty is the ONLY class that can shoot any target on the map from start of the game to the end, others are limited by range, cover, terrain, etc.

If target "hides behind cover" on one corner of the map, you do need to re-aim, but you can still shoot at other side of the map, every other tank first needs to close to shoot range distance only for start.

 

Not wanting to splash friendly tanks is situational and limited to hi-tier artys, it applies only to melee range and still, most arty players will not care and risk friendly fire

 

Only thing that stops "arty tax" is raid by some scout that kills arty mid-game or lucky counter-battery fire. While arty is alive, it will continue to inflict damage as long as the game drags on.

 



Kolmiopaavo #25 Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:49 AM

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Balancing arty in its current form to satisfy everybody is simply impossible, however reducing arty to max 1 per team would be a good compromise. Games with 3 arties just arent good for anybody, both the tank drivers and arty players.

 

If arty was capped to 1 per team, there would be very little left for me to complain about arty.

 

No massive rebalances, time and resource consuming processes are need, just a tiny bit of coding.


Edited by Kolmiopaavo, 24 January 2018 - 12:00 PM.


mvdt #26 Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:52 AM

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View PostKolmiopaavo, on 24 January 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:

Balancing arty in its current form to satisfy everybody is simply impossible, however reducing arty to max 1 per team would be a good compromise. Games with 3 arties just arent good for anybody, both the tank drivers and arty players.

 

If arty was capped to 1 per team, there would be were little left for me to complain about arty.

 

I like the idea of only having one arty, but the only problem I have with it is that you will see 1 arty almost every game. I really enjoy my games without arty, for example on Prokhorovka.



Kolmiopaavo #27 Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:56 AM

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View Postmvdt, on 24 January 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

I like the idea of only having one arty, but the only problem I have with it is that you will see 1 arty almost every game. I really enjoy my games without arty, for example on Prokhorovka.

 

Thats the flipside of that yeah but for me, 1 arty is bearable for the most of the time (unless hes a xvm/clan focusing fgt). You can count his reloads and pinpoint his location to have times of agression and play accordingly, that just gets impossible with 2 and especially 3 arties.

Edited by Kolmiopaavo, 24 January 2018 - 11:58 AM.


mvdt #28 Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:58 AM

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View PostKolmiopaavo, on 24 January 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

 

Thats the flipside of that yeah but for me, 1 arty is bareable for the most of the time (unless hes a xvm/clan focusing fgt). You can count his reloads and pinpoint his location to have times of agression and play accordingly, that just gets impossible with 2 and especially 3 arties.

 

Yeah. Every upside has it's downsides. I would still like it tho.



Darth_Clicker #29 Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:30 PM

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View PostInnapropriate_Username, on 24 January 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

 

Arty is the ONLY class that can shoot any target on the map from start of the game to the end, others are limited by range, cover, terrain, etc.

If target "hides behind cover" on one corner of the map, you do need to re-aim, but you can still shoot at other side of the map, every other tank first needs to close to shoot range distance only for start.

 

Not wanting to splash friendly tanks is situational and limited to hi-tier artys, it applies only to melee range and still, most arty players will not care and risk friendly fire

 

Only thing that stops "arty tax" is raid by some scout that kills arty mid-game or lucky counter-battery fire. While arty is alive, it will continue to inflict damage as long as the game drags on.

 

 

Your first two statements are completely false.  Arty can't shoot any target on the map because of the limitations of range, cover, terrain etc.  If the target is hiding behind cover then re-aiming will not magically make the hiding tank move nor make the cover disappear.  All tanks have a greater firing range than artys such as Bishop and Burt.  Your third statement is also false, there are several lower tier artys, and tanks that can do splash damage.  Whether or not most arty players care about hitting friendly tanks is something that I don't have any verifiable data on.  You don't either I suspect.  You are simply making that statement because it makes you feel good.  It is simply your opinion.  And based on my 46805 battles in arty I believe your opinion to be on the wrong side of the truth.  I don't think that arty players have a lack of care about hitting friendly fire.  I see arty players say sorry in chat for this and I don't see arty hit friendly tanks very often.

 

Your last statement is the only one that even sounds that it could be a fact.  But, it is true for all classes, the longer the game the more damage is done...except when you run out of ammo, or go afk.

 

I enjoyed reading your work of fiction, but facts are much more appreciated here.  Too many people come here and pretend to have Trump as a last name.



Innapropriate_Username #30 Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:47 PM

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View PostDarth_Clicker, on 24 January 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:

 

Your first two statements are completely false.  Arty can't shoot any target on the map because of the limitations of range, cover, terrain etc.  If the target is hiding behind cover then re-aiming will not magically make the hiding tank move nor make the cover disappear.  All tanks have a greater firing range than artys such as Bishop and Burt.  Your third statement is also false, there are several lower tier artys, and tanks that can do splash damage.  Whether or not most arty players care about hitting friendly tanks is something that I don't have any verifiable data on.  You don't either I suspect.  You are simply making that statement because it makes you feel good.  It is simply your opinion.  And based on my 46805 battles in arty I believe your opinion to be on the wrong side of the truth.  I don't think that arty players have a lack of care about hitting friendly fire.  I see arty players say sorry in chat for this and I don't see arty hit friendly tanks very often.

 

Your last statement is the only one that even sounds that it could be a fact.  But, it is true for all classes, the longer the game the more damage is done...except when you run out of ammo, or go afk.

 

I enjoyed reading your work of fiction, but facts are much more appreciated here.  Too many people come here and pretend to have Trump as a last name.

 

Ahhh, so you are going to use CNN standards to fact check me... I will let that speak for itself.

You dug up only 2 SPGs in game with limited range, "re-aiming" will not magically reveal hidden target, but will enable you to target one of next dozen or so tanks, while some regular tank must drive and get in range to only have a chance to aim at that same target that was the point.

SPGs have whole map to choose targets from, other tanks need to drive and find them, you really need CNN spinners to twist that one.

 



mvdt #31 Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:50 PM

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And the discussion went personal...

woolfie #32 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:16 PM

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View Postmvdt, on 24 January 2018 - 12:50 PM, said:

And the discussion went personal...

 

On an arty thread it usually doesn't take until the 2nd page for that to happen, this is unusual.

mvdt #33 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:19 PM

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View Postwoolfie, on 24 January 2018 - 01:16 PM, said:

 

On an arty thread it usually doesn't take until the 2nd page for that to happen, this is unusual.

 

I wish people could be a bit more mature and have a real discussion. Instead of a whinefest.



Noo_Noo #34 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:24 PM

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My view is that arty is broken and cannot be balanced without a major rework in the way it plays. 

 

Why? 

 

Every tank in the game follows certain basic or core rules. These are view range, render range, camo, how armour works and accuracy to name a few. 
Arty doesn't follow these rules it has its own. It doesn't have render range, it is as accurate at 500m as it is at 150m. It is designed to work from positions of complete safety and at very little risk to itself. You could give arty 1 HP and it would work as it currently does. 

 

Plus it fires HE which is a discussion for another thread perhaps. 

 

But basically because it doesn't play by the same rules you cant balance it and therefore it is broken.



irfan54 #35 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:58 PM

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Would not it be better if every battle was 1 arty? Except the great battles (30vs30)

Innapropriate_Username #36 Posted 24 January 2018 - 02:37 PM

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I am not "pro player", dont even care for wn8 or stats, most times do suicide-charges...

But now after playing few artys (gw pather, tigerP, M44)....

Without even trying hard I now noticed I have over 60% win rate in M44, perhaps one of most broken artys, have light tank mobility, wide gun arc, can snap-shot...

There were a LOT of games I.... if not carried, helped push to win, and I guess you dont just into 60% by RNG

Now I doubt even arty players take them seriously, I would describe M44 today, as Vk28 with better Derp (before 105mm was removed), and UNLIMITED range

1-shoting most lower tier tanks, killing scouts that try to rush you, killing hi-tier scouts in full speed...

If that is not broken, I dont know what is.



Dadford #37 Posted 24 January 2018 - 02:49 PM

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If it's easy to get high win rate in arty, how can there be arty on the losing team?

CornDaFlakes #38 Posted 24 January 2018 - 02:56 PM

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The only way to solve the arty's in WOT is to completly remove them from the game. Give everyone the a amount of the exp that they put in arty back . All [edited]who have multiple artys would then be able to free-exp a few REAL tanks to make them happy. Arty is a silly concept and failed horribly. They should have removed it years and years ago.

 

Or make a game mode where all the [edited]can play their c*****r artys against bots not real people. That would work as well. Just dont let them join the random battle que.


Edited by another_Ghost_Shell, 24 January 2018 - 02:57 PM.


mvdt #39 Posted 24 January 2018 - 03:04 PM

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View Postanother_Ghost_Shell, on 24 January 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

The only way to solve the arty's in WOT is to completly remove them from the game. Give everyone the a amount of the exp that they put in arty back . All [edited]who have multiple artys would then be able to free-exp a few REAL tanks to make them happy. Arty is a silly concept and failed horribly. They should have removed it years and years ago.

 

Or make a game mode where all the [edited]can play their c*****r artys against bots not real people. That would work as well. Just dont let them join the random battle que.

 

I don't agree with you.

Arty needs changes. For example less splash or something.

Also a maximum of 3 is too much. I don't mind having 1 arty in my team.

Removing it doesn't really solve the problem. It will make other classes or piled up groups of tanks more dominant.

This is of course my opinion.



CornDaFlakes #40 Posted 24 January 2018 - 03:11 PM

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View Postmvdt, on 24 January 2018 - 03:04 PM, said:

 

I don't agree with you.

Arty needs changes. For example less splash or something.

Also a maximum of 3 is too much. I don't mind having 1 arty in my team.

Removing it doesn't really solve the problem. It will make other classes or piled up groups of tanks more dominant.

This is of course my opinion.

 

No it will not make other classes more dominant. It will stop the passive gameplay and people will be less cared of being spotted first. Arty just stoppes the dynamic gameplay. It was meant to stop camping and to dig out the campers. This just COMPLETLY failed. The amount of times I get facked in the [edited]by a arty in my light tank because I am the first one spotted is just ridiculous. The whole concept of the arty in WOT is c***r. It can never EVER be fixed. How much you would nerf it. 

 

So the options that I would say that are the best ones are to completly remove them from the game and give people a compensation. Or make a different game points where arty can shoot at bots and ruin the experience for real players.


Edited by another_Ghost_Shell, 24 January 2018 - 03:12 PM.






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