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Your current views on Arty tanks?

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B3RG #41 Posted 24 January 2018 - 03:40 PM

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Another_ghost_shell , i don't agree with you

​i strongholds T6 before the artysrike option there were only two types of teams (at my level of players)

​Cromwell teams rushing across the map and O-I teams digging in


 

if arty is removed my guess is that there will only be 2 types of tanks left

​fast medium's and superheavy's



Darth_Clicker #42 Posted 24 January 2018 - 03:57 PM

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View PostInnapropriate_Username, on 24 January 2018 - 02:37 PM, said:

I am not "pro player", dont even care for wn8 or stats, most times do suicide-charges...

But now after playing few artys (gw pather, tigerP, M44)....

Without even trying hard I now noticed I have over 60% win rate in M44, perhaps one of most broken artys, have light tank mobility, wide gun arc, can snap-shot...

There were a LOT of games I.... if not carried, helped push to win, and I guess you dont just into 60% by RNG

Now I doubt even arty players take them seriously, I would describe M44 today, as Vk28 with better Derp (before 105mm was removed), and UNLIMITED range

1-shoting most lower tier tanks, killing scouts that try to rush you, killing hi-tier scouts in full speed...

If that is not broken, I dont know what is.

 

I am sure that everyone reading your post will 100% agree that everything you said is true.   There isn't a point in arguing with you.  I wish you well in your quest to achieve your dreams.

 

And concerning your 60% win rate in the M44, considering that you only have 51 battles in it please come back to us after you get a significant number of battles that give a good indication.  You are indeed doing fairly well in it so far.  I am sure that you will eventually get an Ace Tanker in it, but I predict that your win rate will come down a bit in the process.  Even the mighty M44 is not able to carry a battle as well as an O-NI can.  According to your apparent standards, the O-NI is much more OP than the M44.  Do you agree?


Edited by Darth_Clicker, 24 January 2018 - 04:12 PM.


B3RG #43 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:10 PM

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In AW there is only arty in PvE

​you know that really successful game

and no players come back to WoT from it

​remember?



kaneloon #44 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:20 PM

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Unicum hate arty because it is only with them that noob hands can wreck their agressive gameplay completly.

And they don t like to play arty because it is not a reliable good stats provider.

 

About counter arty : at tiers X it is useless because u can t one shot anymore enemy arties (and can t be oneshot either). So you lose time for non rewarded damages, and once you shot the enemy he will move afterwards.

So its the new system that made counter arty meaningless.

 



Gnomus #45 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:41 PM

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View PostNoo_Noo, on 24 January 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

My view is that arty is broken and cannot be balanced without a major rework in the way it plays. 

 

Why? 

 

Every tank in the game follows certain basic or core rules. These are view range, render range, camo, how armour works and accuracy to name a few. 
Arty doesn't follow these rules it has its own. It doesn't have render range, it is as accurate at 500m as it is at 150m. It is designed to work from positions of complete safety and at very little risk to itself. You could give arty 1 HP and it would work as it currently does. 

 

Plus it fires HE which is a discussion for another thread perhaps. 

 

But basically because it doesn't play by the same rules you cant balance it and therefore it is broken.

 

So you are back with false claims.

 

Could you finally provide proof that arty accuracy is constant (as accurate at 500m as it is at 150m) and not change with distance?

 

Could you explain how arty arty doesn't follow basic rules with armor or camo?

 

 

You can hate arty if you so wish, but at least base it on reality, not on things you imagine and that do not match reality.



Darth_Clicker #46 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:41 PM

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View Postkaneloon, on 24 January 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

Unicum hate arty because it is only with them that noob hands can wreck their agressive gameplay completly.

And they don t like to play arty because it is not a reliable good stats provider.

 

About counter arty : at tiers X it is useless because u can t one shot anymore enemy arties (and can t be oneshot either). So you lose time for non rewarded damages, and once you shot the enemy he will move afterwards.

So its the new system that made counter arty meaningless.

 

 

I agree sort of.  Some arty haters wish to remove arty simply to make the game easier for them.  Sort of an easy mode.  Other players have the skills to play the game with arty...even three arty per team...and are successful in the game.  They don't need an easy mode like others.

 

Your point about tier X arty is spot on.  I would venture to say the same is true down to at least tier VIII.  There is some really strong logic at play when there are many tanks in the game, some at lower tiers, that can one shot every arty in the game, but the same is not true for the class that supposedly has the biggest, most powerful guns.  Very strong logic indeed on the part of WG developers.  Or maybe I should say a strong failure.



Noo_Noo #47 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:52 PM

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View Postanother_Ghost_Shell, on 24 January 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

The only way to solve the arty's in WOT is to completly remove them from the game. Give everyone the a amount of the exp that they put in arty back . All [edited]who have multiple artys would then be able to free-exp a few REAL tanks to make them happy. Arty is a silly concept and failed horribly. They should have removed it years and years ago.

 

Or make a game mode where all the [edited]can play their c*****r artys against bots not real people. That would work as well. Just dont let them join the random battle que.

 

That's certainly an option but I cant see it happening sadly. 

 

I would look at a rework like this.

 

1) Give it a render range of sorts. Tanks on the map and in the top down view appear as blobs. As the range increases the bl;ob gets bigger. The tank can be anywhere inside the blob. 

2) make it less accurate as the range to its target increases. That is 100% logical as I doubt WW2 artillery were as accurate at long ranges as they were at short range. less flight time and things to influence the shell for starters.

Basically change it so that it has to fight at short ranges. Then give it mobility and other stuff that allow it play at these ranges. 



irfan54 #48 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:59 PM

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Should Arty's tanks be completely removed from play? Or should it be a different battlefield? now arty system I think is very bad and  of the has to be improved and modified.

B3RG #49 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:03 PM

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It's a game

​if you bring ww2 different types of artillery shells and accuracy they would be OP



Innapropriate_Username #50 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:13 PM

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View PostDarth_Clicker, on 24 January 2018 - 03:57 PM, said:

 

I am sure that everyone reading your post will 100% agree that everything you said is true.   There isn't a point in arguing with you.  I wish you well in your quest to achieve your dreams.

 

And concerning your 60% win rate in the M44, considering that you only have 51 battles in it please come back to us after you get a significant number of battles that give a good indication.  You are indeed doing fairly well in it so far.  I am sure that you will eventually get an Ace Tanker in it, but I predict that your win rate will come down a bit in the process.  Even the mighty M44 is not able to carry a battle as well as an O-NI can.  According to your apparent standards, the O-NI is much more OP than the M44.  Do you agree?

 

For somebody who does not see a point in arguing, you certainly insist on doing just that.

Win rate might come down a bit... like GW Panther/TigerP, 56%, still quite stronk

 

I dont think stats reflect 100% realistic picture because they depend more on RNG (teams) you get, but in this case I was surprised how high it was. I know after few games how OP tank feels, and if there is one example of nasty OP arty it is M44. Mobility of Bert, reload of Lefefefefe and nice damage.... infinite range, splash and stun... it only lacks AP/HEAT ammo to be 100% broken

 

 

View PostDarth_Clicker, on 24 January 2018 - 04:41 PM, said:

 

Your point about tier X arty is spot on.  I would venture to say the same is true down to at least tier VIII.  There is some really strong logic at play when there are many tanks in the game, some at lower tiers, that can one shot every arty in the game, but the same is not true for the class that supposedly has the biggest, most powerful guns.  Very strong logic indeed on the part of WG developers.  Or maybe I should say a strong failure.

 

Biggest most powerfull guns in the game... that can shoot on the move, dont need siege mode, just drive around like scout and snap shot 15cm HE.... yea that sounds just right.

 

Add to that satellite cheat view, no view range limit, no shoot range limit.... SEAMS FAIR.

 

 



Bludsuager #51 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:16 PM

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View PostB3RG, on 24 January 2018 - 05:03 PM, said:

It's a game

​if you bring ww2 different types of artillery shells and accuracy they would be OP

 

I dont think WW2 arties were as reliable against moving targets as some people seem to believe, after all they themselves hardly ever saw the target and had to rely on a radioman (who may be experienced or not or even being shot at) to relay info. The arty had a grid map and they could judge roughly what square they could shoot in but required the radioman to shout "30 yards west, 10 yards north... etc"  and when they shot again the radioman would again "calibrate" the system by reporting again how far out they are. Arty to be able to shoot far and "accurately" needed to be calibrated for where they are (level ground etc). An spg could never have the accuracy a stationary artiliery piece had as chances are running around suddenly aiming they wouldn't be on level ground etc which would affect the accuracy.

 

Arty was mainly used to bombard stationary targets (entrenched troops/tanks/bunkers/buildings) or to cause mainly some heavy damage to an area for cover (shock and awe). So again the use of arty (especially an spg that runs around) against mobile targets without direct fire was unreliable at best. Since this is a game the arties are afforded god view but to say arties were used to attack moving targets and have accuracy is not true.



Darth_Clicker #52 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:27 PM

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View PostInnapropriate_Username, on 24 January 2018 - 05:13 PM, said:

 

For somebody who does not see a point in arguing, you certainly insist on doing just that.

Win rate might come down a bit... like GW Panther/TigerP, 56%, still quite stronk

 

I dont think stats reflect 100% realistic picture because they depend more on RNG (teams) you get, but in this case I was surprised how high it was. I know after few games how OP tank feels, and if there is one example of nasty OP arty it is M44. Mobility of Bert, reload of Lefefefefe and nice damage.... infinite range, splash and stun... it only lacks AP/HEAT ammo to be 100% broken

 

 

 

Biggest most powerfull guns in the game... that can shoot on the move, dont need siege mode, just drive around like scout and snap shot 15cm HE.... yea that sounds just right.

 

Add to that satellite cheat view, no view range limit, no shoot range limit.... SEAMS FAIR.

 

 

 

If you think that the M44 is OP or broken then please inform us of how the M44 compares to a Cromwell.  What does the M44 do better than the Cromwell?  How is the M44 OP in comparison to a Cromwell?  And if you wish to choose another tier VI tank to show the M44's superiority/brokeness then let 'er rip tater chip.

 

Oh...no view range limit, cheat view, no shoot range limit....that is some funny stuff there.  Comedy gold.....lol.



CornDaFlakes #53 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:32 PM

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View Postkaneloon, on 24 January 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

Unicum hate arty because it is only with them that noob hands can wreck their agressive gameplay completly.

And they don t like to play arty because it is not a reliable good stats provider.

 

About counter arty : at tiers X it is useless because u can t one shot anymore enemy arties (and can t be oneshot either). So you lose time for non rewarded damages, and once you shot the enemy he will move afterwards.

So its the new system that made counter arty meaningless.

 

 

Kaneloon you are dumb dude. Arty was put into the game to stop people from camping. Now that never ever worked. The only thing that arty does is punish those who play aggresive ( cuz they get spotted first). Arty actaully does the oposite, it makes people camp.

 

And saying unicums dont like arty because it doenst give high wn8 is the funniest thing I have ever read in my life. No thats not the reason why good players dont play it. Its because arty takes NOOO skill even a brain dead 12 year old can play artys. Also its boring as [edited]to play and you cannot carry the games for you team with that retarded class.



jack_timber #54 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:33 PM

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I enjoy playing arty but what I enjoy more is taking out the red arty...

To me one of artys primary roles is to hunt out the tracers and fire a few metres behind. It always suprises me, although it shouldn't, how many arty players don't relocate after every shot, 30 to 40 m is sufficient.

You generally know what areas they are lurking in so watching the screen for 20 or so seconds can pay dividends and help your "team mates".



Darth_Clicker #55 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:34 PM

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View PostBludsuager, on 24 January 2018 - 05:16 PM, said:

 

I dont think WW2 arties were as reliable against moving targets as some people seem to believe, after all they themselves hardly ever saw the target and had to rely on a radioman (who may be experienced or not or even being shot at) to relay info. The arty had a grid map and they could judge roughly what square they could shoot in but required the radioman to shout "30 yards west, 10 yards north... etc"  and when they shot again the radioman would again "calibrate" the system by reporting again how far out they are. Arty to be able to shoot far and "accurately" needed to be calibrated for where they are (level ground etc). An spg could never have the accuracy a stationary artiliery piece had as chances are running around suddenly aiming they wouldn't be on level ground etc which would affect the accuracy.

 

Arty was mainly used to bombard stationary targets (entrenched troops/tanks/bunkers/buildings) or to cause mainly some heavy damage to an area for cover (shock and awe). So again the use of arty (especially an spg that runs around) against mobile targets without direct fire was unreliable at best. Since this is a game the arties are afforded god view but to say arties were used to attack moving targets and have accuracy is not true.

 

And arty in this game don't have accuracy when trying to track a moving target..in general.  Tanks deal more damage per minute, have vastly superior accuracy have armor and the list goes on and on.  As a matter of fact, if you have a look at vBaddict.com and choose damage dealt per battle, you will see that the top 53 vehicles in terms of damage dealt per battle are all either tanks or tank destroyers.  #54 is the CGC....and there are only a total of 7 artys in the top 100.  So to say that arty is in any way OP compared to tanks/tds is a joke indeed.  Even a Whirlpool spin-cycle can't spin those facts around to fit being OP.

Innapropriate_Username #56 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:34 PM

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View PostDarth_Clicker, on 24 January 2018 - 05:27 PM, said:

 

If you think that the M44 is OP or broken then please inform us of how the M44 compares to a Cromwell.  What does the M44 do better than the Cromwell?  How is the M44 OP in comparison to a Cromwell?  And if you wish to choose another tier VI tank to show the M44's superiority/brokeness then let 'er rip tater chip.

 

Oh...no view range limit, cheat view, no shoot range limit....that is some funny stuff there.  Comedy gold.....lol.

 

Nobody mentioned superiority, stop projecting.

 

Arty as a class is broken, parasitic in nature. You invest NOTHING of worth in game, only take away from others - and they pay it with missery.

Every other class in this game is bound by rules of view range and shoot range, arty brakes those rules, but plays the same game, from beyond reach.

It is a death tax you must pay until arty is dead or game is over, as long as game lasts, arty will take klik by klik everything and if there is water at the end of the game drown.

 

 

 



Bludsuager #57 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:34 PM

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View PostDarth_Clicker, on 24 January 2018 - 05:27 PM, said:

 

If you think that the M44 is OP or broken then please inform us of how the M44 compares to a Cromwell.  What does the M44 do better than the Cromwell?  How is the M44 OP in comparison to a Cromwell?  And if you wish to choose another tier VI tank to show the M44's superiority/brokeness then let 'er rip tater chip.

 

Oh...no view range limit, cheat view, no shoot range limit....that is some funny stuff there.  Comedy gold.....lol.

 

Well yes the arties do have a view range after all they can spot the closer enemies at the end of a game or when they are about to die themselves and yes they do have a "max range", however they dont suffer from "render range" in god mode and the distance their shells can travel and the size of our maps make some of the arty pieces' "max range" moot.

 

I am also not saying that arty are OP but are broken in some aspects. Also arty shells again in this game are given an "artificial" gravity to allow their shells to curve like they do in this game. I dont know if arty in WW2 had different accelerant quantities to allow for different velocities but the range of engagement in this game is rediculous, the arties are playing closer to a mortar/howitzer than what is imagined an artillery piece is



Darth_Clicker #58 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:36 PM

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View Postanother_Ghost_Shell, on 24 January 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

 

Kaneloon you are dumb dude. Arty was put into the game to stop people from camping. Now that never ever worked. The only thing that arty does is punish those who play aggresive ( cuz they get spotted first). Arty actaully does the oposite, it makes people camp.

 

And saying unicums dont like arty because it doenst give high wn8 is the funniest thing I have ever read in my life. No thats not the reason why good players dont play it. Its because arty takes NOOO skill even a brain dead 12 year old can play artys. Also its boring as [edited]to play and you cannot carry the games for you team with that retarded class.

 

Well dont play arty and stop trying to dictate to other players which class they should play.  Let us have fun in the same game.  And if a person isn't having fun playing a certain game and they continue to play said game then that person has much larger problems than the game itself.

Innapropriate_Username #59 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:45 PM

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There is only one optimal SPG solution without removing "god mode" view and range;

1) Remove limit of SPGs in game, there can be 15 SPGs on a team!

2)

 

All problems solved!

Who wants to play with arty - play and enjoy, others who do not want to are not FORCED to.

 



irfan54 #60 Posted 24 January 2018 - 05:54 PM

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View PostInnapropriate_Username, on 24 January 2018 - 04:45 PM, said:

There is only one optimal SPG solution without removing "god mode" view and range;

1) Remove limit of SPGs in game, there can be 15 SPGs on a team!

2)

 

All problems solved!

Who wants to play with arty - play and enjoy, others who do not want to are not FORCED to.

 

 

lol





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