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Chinese Medium tank buff suggestions tiers 5-8


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slowblade #1 Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:51 PM

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Hello, community,

After watching Circons most recent video on the 'forgotten medium line' aka the Chinese mediums, I put my ideas forward in this thread for others to read and WG to hopefully act on.

 

I'll start with tier 5 as 2-4 aren't really much of an issue due to their low tier and lack of long playing time to unlock the next tank.

 

Type T-34

Now most people don't know this but the Type T-34 prevails over its Russian counterpart, the T-34, in nearly all ways, except a few, primarily mobility, but the biggest being gun depression. The Type T-34 has 5 degrees while the T-34 has 8 degrees, which can be a major factor in working ridgelines, using the superior gun depression to pick off enemies while the Type T-34 might have to expose more tank to deal damage. But I think this is forefitted with the mobility, allowing it to get in and out of cover quicker, so I do not think gun depression change is needed. However, the purchase cost could be reduced as it is over 80,000 credits more expensive.

 

-Purchasing cost of the Type T-34 reduced from 430,000 to 385,000

 

 

Type 58

 

Unlike the Type T-34, the Type 58 is inferior in most ways, except mobility, to its Russian counterpart, the T-34-85, and the powercreeped T-34-85M. The T-34-85 can mount the long barrelled 85mm, which is superior in damage and penetration, but inferior in DPM with 150 less DPM than the Type 58, around 1 shot per minute lost. However, bizarrely the T-34-85M mounts the tier 6 85mm (ZiS-S-53) which has the exact same damage, penetration and accuracy as the T-34-85s top gun, but better DPM? Way better than the Type 58s stats, 150 more DPM, better penetration, 20 more damage per shot and only losing 0.2 seconds of reloading to compensate, an unfair fight if you ask me.

In gun handling terms, it isn't much of a difference between the 3, but still, the Type 58 comes out inferior. Both T-34-85s have 2 more degrees of gun depression, slightly more accurate and only the T-34-85M having 0.1 seconds quicker aiming time and 3 degrees more elevation.

However, in mobility the Type 58 is a superior tank, having an only worse engine and weight stats than the T-34-85 and being overall superior to the T-34-85M. Ar

Armour and health between the 3 is quite a big difference too, with the Type 58 and T-34-85 being similar in most respects, apart from the Type 58s 30+ HP. Unfortunately, the same cant be said about the T-34-85M however, with an increase in 30mm of armour frontally, sloped at about 40 degrees will increase thickness by 40mm roughly.

 

- Penetration of the Chuan Jian-365 shell changed from 128mm to 144mm.

- Penetration of the Chuan Chao-367 changed from 172mm to 194mm

- Damage of the 59-86JT and S-53 gun changed from 160 to 180 per shot.

- Dispersion of the 59-86JT gun changed from 0.36 to 0.35

- Dispersion of the S-53 gun changed from 0.4 to 0.37

- Shell Velocity of the Chuan Jian-365 changed from 792m/s to 950 m/s

- Shell velocity of the Chuan Chao-367 changed from 990m/s to 1188m/s

- Shell velocity of the Sha bao-365 changed from 792m/s to 950m/s

- Engine power of 12150L increased from 520hp to 600hp

- Power/weight ratio increased from 16hp/t to 18.58hp/t

- Hitpoints decreased from 750 to 720

 

 

T-34-1

 

Most people would agree that this tank is one of, maybe even the worst tier 7 medium tank, combined with a dreadful ROF, abysmal gun handling, below average mobility and lackluster health make it an absolute pain to play, I will compare it to the T-34-100, a similar tank in regards to alpha damage, health and mobility and the possibly even worse, T20.

 

Firepower

With regards to its raw firepower, the tank hasn't got many things bad to say, with decent alpha (250dps) and 175mm of penetration it isn't a bad combo at all, but in combination with the sub-9 second reload it suffers from 1600 dpm, 200 less than the T-34-100 and surprisingly better than the T20 by 100 dpm. The ammo capacity isn't bad, having more than the T-34-100 but 14 less than the T20 meaning you don't have to take shots sparingly, but only having 895m/s shell speed it can be quite hard to aim due to the lead you have to give on the shots.

 

Gun handling

This is where the tank turns into rubbish, and why it is an almost instant turn off for most players, having a pathetic 2.78 sec aiming time and equally pathetic 0.4 accuracy makes it almost impossible to snapshot, to hit targets at long range and aim for weak spots, which would lead to most players using gold when facing higher tiers. It also has below average dispersion when moving, turning etc and 5 degrees of depression means it has one of the worst guns tier for tier.

 

Mobility

In terms of mobility, it is only superior in traverse speeds and effective terrain resistance, with the T-34-100 having substantially better terrain resistance. It also rocks the worst top speed (50kph), joint worst engine power with the T-34-100 (520hp) and second worst p/w ratio

 

Armour

Armour-wise, it isn't that bad, having a very strong turret that would be amazing against lower tiers (170mm angled frontally!) but a pretty poor hull, only marginally better than the T-34-100 and marginally worse than the T20. It has the joint worst health pool of a tier 7 medium with 1050hp, along with the T23E3, but the T23E3 has pref MM meaning it cant see tier 9s, which the T-34-1 can, meaning health will be quickly depleted.

 

- Reload time of 44-100JT gun decreased from 8.92 to 7.92 seconds

- Reload time of the 59-86JT gun decreased from 4.32 to 4.12 seconds

- Shell velocity of Chuan bei-412 shell increased from 895m/s to 990m/s

- Aim time of 44-100JT gun decreased from 2.78 seconds to 2.32 seconds

- Accuracy of 44-100JT gun decreased from 0.4 to 0.37

- Accuracy of the 59-86JT gun decreased from 0.36 to 0.34

- Depression increased from 5 degrees to 7.5 degrees

- Gun handling of the 44-100JT gun while traversing turret decreased from 0.15 to 0.12

- Power/weight ratio increased from 16hp/t to 18.46hp/t

- Hitpoints increased from 1050hp to 1150hp

- Frontal hull armour increased from 60mm to 90mm

- Side hull armour increased from 45mm to 75mm

- Rear hull armour increased from 40mm to 60mm

 

 

T-34-2

 

Yet again, most people would agree that this is or is a close second as the worst tier 8 medium tank. Having pretty much the same miserable characteristics at the T-34-1, but a tier higher, makes it inferior to most tanks of the same tier, tiers higher and even tanks of lower tiers, and that combined with tier 8 MM makes this a truly terrible tank. I will compare this tank with the recently buffed T-44 and the STA-1.

 

Firepower

This tank doesn't even compete with these 2 tanks, having the worst penetration, the worst DPM, the worst reload time, the worst shell velocity and the worst ammo capacity out of them, meaning it is one of the worst brawlers, snipers, frontline and support tanks at tier 8, only really being useful when top tier.

 

Gun handling

Like the T-34-1, this tank has the worst gun handling characteristics, but unlike the T-34-1, which has a few decent attributes, this tank has none. I mean none. The STA-1 and T-44 beat it at everything, or if not beating it they draw in certain characteristics.

 

Mobility

Literally, the only strong point of this tank is its mobility, which means it can at least get into position to shoot at targets and if it doesn't get obliterated in the process, it can move back into cover pretty safely. It has the best terrain resistance and traverse speeds meaning it is a remarkably quick and agile tank, unlike the other two.

 

Armour

At tier 7, the turret was pretty good at blocking damage and bouncing a few shots due to the angle, but a tier higher and only 10mm more thick at the front its going to suffer heavily, especially when facing tier 10s that can pen any part of your turret, along with the 70mm frontal armour and the lackluster 1300hp its no contest to anything. If in tier 10 battles, it can't snipe, it can defend, it cant flank enemies without being destroyed in the process and it cant tank. It's just pathetic how bad this tank is.

 

- Reload time of the 59-100JT gun decreased from 8.15 to 7.19 seconds

- Aim time of the 59-100JT gun decreased from 2.68 to 2.32 seconds

- Dispersion of the 59-100JT gun decreased from 0.37 to 0.34

- Reload time of the 37-122JT decreased from 14.38 to 13.5 seconds

- Aim time of the 37-122JT gun decreased from 2.97 to 2.67 seconds

- Dispersion of the 37-122JT gun decreased 0.46 to 0.4

- Penetration of the Chuan bei-471 increased from 175mm to 195mm

- Shell Velocity of the Po-471 increased from 640m/s to 800 m/s

- Shell velocity of the Chuan bei-471 increased from 800m/s to 945m/s

- Dispersion while on move and traversing tank decreased from 0.19 to 0.14

- Penetration of the Chuan bei-412 increased from 181mm to 203mm

- Shell velocity of Chuan bei-412 increased from 900m/s to 985m/s

- Shell velocity of the Sha bao-412 increased from 900m/s to 985m/s

- Penetration of the Chuan Chao-412 increased from 241mm to 263mm

- Ammo capacity increased from 45 to 56

- Depression increased from 5 degrees to 7.5 degrees

- Top speed increased from 51kph to 55kph

- Engine power of 12150LS increased from 580hp to 700hp

- Power to weight ratio increased from 17.06hp/t to 20.59hp/t

- Turret armour increased from 180/120/60 to 220/170/100

- Hull armour increased from 70/45/45 to 100/70/70

 

Thank you for your time, I hope you'll agree with my ideas and hopefully, Wargaming will take some notice of this.

All the best,

slowblade


Edited by slowblade, 23 January 2018 - 09:53 PM.


Zoggo_ #2 Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:42 PM

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Yep from type 58 upwards they all need significant buffs. Truly bizarre for WG to completely ignore this line yet buff t44, t44-100 and t54 proto not just once but twice in the last year! I know we joke about Russian bias and a lot of their customers are Russian but this is taking too long to rebalance the lesser played Nations/lines.

 

Devs promised they working on rebalancing tiers below 8 next. With the new heavy armored Soviet tanks inc and the mess that is 3-5-7 MM they really need to pull their finger out and do this sooner rather than later.



Qstein #3 Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:45 AM

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Not only from Tier 5-8 also the forgotton WZ-120 at Tier IX cant compete in any aspect with its Russian Brother the T-54 although its a Chinese copy of this tank. The gun handling is just so horrible, even with the 100mm, so you cant play it like a T-54 by the way its the same tank. Wargaming should give the player at least an option to play with the 100mm or the 122mm like on the T-54, but even the 122mm suits this tank better its unplayable with only -3 gun depression, even the 121 and T-34-3 got more... The 2.9 sec aim time and dispersion values are so bad and even the premium rounds are pure golden  s*** 265 pen compared to the T-54´s amazing 330 Heat pen. The chinese medium tank line is just outdated and left behind all the new overbuffed tanks.

Temid23 #4 Posted 24 January 2018 - 01:07 AM

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How dare You :P

In this game only one nation tanks can get buffs!1111oneoneone... Quickly say 100 hail SerB before WG curse you with bad RNG :child:

 

On a serious note: All that tanks could use some serious buffs to gun handling. Everything else could be left as it is now really. I kind of like t-34-1 and t-34-2 and Chinese tanks in general. If a player can master that tanks and play them good all other tanks will be easy after that.

But Ivan want his cyka meds get buffed and that is what WG puppets deliver coz f**k Chinese meds and German meds and double f**k AMX CDC!!!1111 DA!



Balc0ra #5 Posted 24 January 2018 - 02:14 AM

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T-34-1 is the only tank on that line I did enjoy tbh, and did keep.  It's 10x more versatile and enjoyable vs the T-34-100. I've never run out of ammo on it. And the high pen vs other tier 7 meds makes me forgive the low DPM. As I can pen more shots that will do damage vs a Comet for instance in a +2 game. Tho an aim time and mobility buff would not be the worst. Tho dispersion is understandably high. It could be a point or two lower indeed.

Coldspell #6 Posted 24 January 2018 - 03:21 AM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 24 January 2018 - 01:14 AM, said:

T-34-1 is the only tank on that line I did enjoy tbh, and did keep.  It's 10x more versatile and enjoyable vs the T-34-100. I've never run out of ammo on it. And the high pen vs other tier 7 meds makes me forgive the low DPM. As I can pen more shots that will do damage vs a Comet for instance in a +2 game. Tho an aim time and mobility buff would not be the worst. Tho dispersion is understandably high. It could be a point or two lower indeed.

 

Yes he is taking the piss with the t-34-1 it is one of the best tier 7 meds in the game.

It has a decent gun, a very acceptable turret an extremely low profile which actually means you can hug the side of a lot of HT tier 7-9 and they won't get their gun down on you.

Honestly the tier 8 and 9 on that line are more desperately in need of  a rework.



xPraetoriaNx #7 Posted 24 January 2018 - 07:38 AM

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Okay I might be a mazoist or something, but I actually quite enjoy the T-34-1. Or (this will sound egoistic, but what the hell), since I'm an oldtimer, I've learnt to play tanks which aren't equipped with fusion engines, photon cannons, and not running around with bunkers as "armor", so I can utilize them.

 

The only 2 things I dislike about the tank is the (lack of) gun depression, and the slow aim time. But hell, it's a russian-copy med, it ain't made to snipe, so I can live with the later one.

 

Tho now as I think about it, people might feel it's crap because of the f*cked up matchmaker. Against tier IX it's indeed more or less worthless, but in tier VII-VIII I'd say it's more than viable. 


Edited by xPraetoriaNx, 24 January 2018 - 07:39 AM.


TankkiPoju #8 Posted 24 January 2018 - 07:39 AM

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Type T-34 is a better tank than T-34, if you can manage the gun depression.

 

It's because it has better gun handling, so you can actually use all that DPM with the Zis-4.



Hedgehog1963 #9 Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:40 AM

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View PostxPraetoriaNx, on 24 January 2018 - 06:38 AM, said:

Okay I might be a mazoist or something, but I actually quite enjoy the T-34-1. Or (this will sound egoistic, but what the hell), since I'm an oldtimer, I've learnt to play tanks which aren't equipped with fusion engines, photon cannons, and not running around with bunkers as "armor", so I can utilize them.

 

The only 2 things I dislike about the tank is the (lack of) gun depression, and the slow aim time. But hell, it's a russian-copy med, it ain't made to snipe, so I can live with the later one.

 

Tho now as I think about it, people might feel it's crap because of the f*cked up matchmaker. Against tier IX it's indeed more or less worthless, but in tier VII-VIII I'd say it's more than viable. 

 

The other thing is that it is tiny.  Small as a LT.

slowblade #10 Posted 24 January 2018 - 03:57 PM

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View PostColdspell, on 24 January 2018 - 02:21 AM, said:

 

Yes he is taking the piss with the t-34-1 it is one of the best tier 7 meds in the game.

It has a decent gun, a very acceptable turret an extremely low profile which actually means you can hug the side of a lot of HT tier 7-9 and they won't get their gun down on you.

Honestly the tier 8 and 9 on that line are more desperately in need of  a rework.

 

I do think its a good tank, but not as good as say the T-34-100 (in my opinion) in regards to gun characterstics, which could be better

Geno1isme #11 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:21 PM

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The only one in that list that really needs a buff is the T-34-2 (probably worst T8 tank in the game together with the VTU), the others are maybe not great but still ok.

commer #12 Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:27 PM

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All China meds could use buffs. 121 will be obsolete because 430U. 




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