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Chinese Medium tank buff suggestions tiers 9 and 10


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slowblade #1 Posted 24 January 2018 - 06:33 PM

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This is a follow up of my previous post on Chinese tier 5-8 tanks that could use a buff.

People commented thinking that I made it seem like I think the T-34-1 is crap, which is not the case, I do think it is a good tank with great turret armour, a good small profile and great mobility, but the gun handling characteristics and firepower could use a serious buff, to get it up to the standards of a T-34-100 or VK 3002DB in that case. Having only played up to the Type 58 (I went down the lights instead) I haven't had much experience playing these tanks, so some stats which might seem rubbish to me might be good in reality, so sorry in advance for making any mistakes.

 

WZ-120

 

Firepower

I will be comparing this tank to the tier 9 Obj 430 coming in 9.22. In terms of firepower, it has the best alpha of any tier 9 MT (440) and a pretty decent 249mm penetration too with the AP rounds, but the reload of the gun is suffering from 11.5 seconds, while the 430 offers a 9.3 sec reload and the added benefit of being Russian comrade)) which means the 430 has 300 more DPM. It also has a great 950m/s shell velocity meaning it doesn't require as much lead, marginally better than the 430 880m/s.

 

Gun handling

I'm seeing a trend in these Chinese MTs, all having terrible gun handling. This tank in particular, with a 3.3 second aiming time means it will take 6 years to aim, and even more confusingly having 0.36 accuracy, almost hinting that it should be used as a sniper if needs be..? This isn't the case with the 430 however, having a brilliant 2.4 sec aiming time for a 122mm and compensating with 0.4 accuracy, but that isn't much of a problem due to issues I will discuss later. It has, however, a very bad 3 degrees of gun depression meaning working ridgelines will be almost impossible and bad dispersion characteristics while on move, turning turret etc are substantially worse than the 430.

 

Mobility

This tank isn't half bad in terms of mobility, having a very respectable 56kph top speed meaning relocating is a breeze, and again having a respectable p/w ratio of 16, due to the 600hp engine, meaning mobility of this tank is not much of a problem. However, the 430 is superior in terrain resistance and effective resistance, meaning it'll be like a UFO on any surface.

 

Armour

Most people know the WZ-120 has a strong turret, with turret armour 220mm thick at the front, and with the spherical turret shape, it can be anywhere from 250-400mm thick effectively, which most tier 10s will have trouble penetrating. On the other hand, the hull is 170mm effectively sloped, which means most tier 7s will easily go through it, while the 430 has usually <200mm and angled extremely well means quite a lot of tier 8s will have trouble penning. The 430 also has a superior turret, sporting 248mm frontally, due to the pancake-like turret and greater gun depression, the angles will be more extreme and bouncing will be more likely. Both tanks have side armour that can be penned by HE shells eg a T49 shell which can easily ruin a game.

 

- Reload time of the 60-122T gun decreased from 11.51 to 10.19 seconds

- Aim time of the 60-122T gun decreased from 3.29 to 2.52 seconds

- Accuracy of the 60-122T gun increased from 0.36 to 0.38

 

- Reload time of the 62-100T gun decreased from 7.86 to 7.38 seconds

- Aim time of the 62-100T gun decreased from 2.78 to 2.28

- Penetration of the Chuan Jian-412G shell increased from 215mm to 223mm

- Penetration of the Tuo chan-412T shell increased from 265mm to 290mm

 

- Gun depression increased from 3 degrees to 6 degrees

- Dispersion while traversing turret decreased from 0.15 to 0.13

- Hitpoints increased from 1650hp to 1750hp

- Hull armour changed from 100/80/40 to 120/100/50

- Turret armour changed from 220/185/63 to 230/195/80

 

 

121

Prior to patch 9.22, this was a unique tier 10 HT, having the highest alpha, having a reasonably good DPM even with a 122mm gun and good armour, playing like a heavy-medium hybrid, but now the Obj 430U is getting added, being superior in most aspects over the 121, could lead the tank to go out of favour for the 430U.

 

Firepower

This is where the 121 doesn't suffer, having 2.9k DPM while the 430U barely having 2.7k, surprisingly it is a better damage dealer, plus the 258mm of penetration the gun gets, means that it usually gets to  use that DPM to its advantage, and having 340mm of skill ammo pen isn't half bad either. It also has the superior shell velocity.

 

Gun handling

Why most people would pick the 430U is due to its absurdly good gun handling, having a ridiculous 2.2 sec aim time meaning it can snapshot like a boss and not have to aim due to the 0.38 accuracy either (and the fact that its Russian obviously) while the 121 has a 2.6 sec aim time but a good 0.34 accuracy, meaning it is a decent sniper. The 430U has substantially better dispersion on the move characteristics like most Russian meds do, but both have the rather lack luster 5 degrees of gun depression.

 

Mobility

The 430U only beats the 121 on engine power and terrain resistances, as the 121 goes 6kph faster (56kph) has a marginally better P/W ratio and has better effective terrain resistances, meaning easier movement on earth surfaces for the 121.

 

Armour

Most people by now know that the 430U is the most heavily armoured medium at tier 10, meaning it will be able to push, tank and block damage greatly, unlike the 121 which only has a tiny increase of 20mm of armour on the turret, meaning it has a weak turret compared to the 430U, and a weak hull too.

 

- Aim time decreased from 2.59 to 2.32

- Dispersion increased from 0.34 to 0.36

- Dispersion while moving, traversing tank and turret (0.13, 0.13 and 0.12 respectively) decreased to 0.12, 0.12, 0,10

- Hull armoured increased from 120/80/60 to 150/100/70

- Turret armour increased from 240/130/65 to 255/190/100

- Hit points increased from 1950hp to 2050hp

 

Thank you for reading

All the best,

slowblade

 

 

 

 

 

 



Obsessive_Compulsive #2 Posted 24 January 2018 - 06:50 PM

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a bit too soon. calm down

Darky1029 #3 Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:43 AM

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Didnt read the whole wall, but long story short, Chinese tanks have been ignored for way too long and are weaker than most counterparts, and i totally agree. Please buff - powercreeped.

TheOneAboveAII #4 Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:52 AM

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Right...since i played both...wz with the buffs you described...would become zeus himself for me...and 121..doesn't need that much armour...enough with the metric tons of armour on meds...the armour it has it's fine...it's the armour on 430u that has to be cut down...121 needs what you just said but without the armour.

trispect #5 Posted 25 January 2018 - 08:25 AM

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Also T-34-2 if buffed would be OP.

TheOneAboveAII #6 Posted 25 January 2018 - 08:38 AM

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View Posttrispect, on 25 January 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:

Also T-34-2 if buffed would be OP.

Please...tell me what drugs are you taking...i must meet with your dealer and learn how to make that drug because it's HELLA STRONG!



Rati_Festa #7 Posted 25 January 2018 - 09:27 AM

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The wz120 is a dire tank even now. The crappy aim time and non existent gun depression being the problem. It feels like u are playing the t34-3 before its recent buff but with no pref mm.... its very bad.

Gardar7 #8 Posted 25 January 2018 - 01:52 PM

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121 will become something STB-1 nowadays. Nobody will use it, as there are better tanks with similar style of playing.

wingcomstriker #9 Posted 25 January 2018 - 02:07 PM

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While I agree with you about the WZ-120, I totally disagree with your thoughts about the 121. The 121 perfectly matches in this time, don't reduce his accuracy.

I think the Chinese tanks (especially the heavy tanks) are as good as they are.Only the T-34-2 and the T-34-1 should have better gun characteristics.

Aikl #10 Posted 25 January 2018 - 02:25 PM

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View PostTheOneAboveAII, on 25 January 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:

Please...tell me what drugs are you taking...i must meet with your dealer and learn how to make that drug because it's HELLA STRONG!

 

Whatever you are on might be too strong. Not that written sarcasm is easy to detect, but 'T-34-2 OP' is kind of a 'meme' by now. Kind of same as 'their Defender is screwed - we have a TVP VTU!'.



djuro900 #11 Posted 25 January 2018 - 02:30 PM

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View Postwingcomstriker, on 25 January 2018 - 01:07 PM, said:

While I agree with you about the WZ-120, I totally disagree with your thoughts about the 121. The 121 perfectly matches in this time, don't reduce his accuracy.

I think the Chinese tanks (especially the heavy tanks) are as good as they are.Only the T-34-2 and the T-34-1 should have better gun characteristics.

 

121 is ok in your opinion? We must be playing different game, 121 is a need of serious buffs and with introduction of 430u whats the point of 121? 430u can do everything better not to mention that stupid armor






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