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Buff tiger 2


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nutnit #1 Posted 26 January 2018 - 01:19 PM

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They need to buff tiger 2 because its too bad in ww2 it was like the best tank but in world of tanks they are like [edited]germans they can have the bad tanks and soviet tanks is gonna have op tanks 

Toni112007 #2 Posted 26 January 2018 - 02:26 PM

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View Postnutnit, on 26 January 2018 - 12:19 PM, said:

They need to buff tiger 2 because its too bad in ww2 it was like the best tank but in world of tanks they are like [edited]germans they can have the bad tanks and soviet tanks is gonna have op tanks 

It was far from the best tank in ww2, but yes I agree it needs a buff regardless.



Dava_117 #3 Posted 26 January 2018 - 02:32 PM

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View Postnutnit, on 26 January 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

They need to buff tiger 2 because its too bad in ww2 it was like the best tank but in world of tanks they are like [edited]germans they can have the bad tanks and soviet tanks is gonna have op tanks 

 

First, welcome to forum.

 

Now, Tiger II situation has beem discussed a lot in the past (use the search function). The mostly shared solution is to downtier the Tigers to tier 6 and 7, using the historical gun as topgun and making armour more significant.



Isharial #4 Posted 26 January 2018 - 02:39 PM

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View Postnutnit, on 26 January 2018 - 01:19 PM, said:

They need to buff tiger 2 because its too bad in ww2 it was like the best tank but in world of tanks they are like [edited]germans they can have the bad tanks and soviet tanks is gonna have op tanks

 

it wasn't the best tank at all, far less useful that what documentaries and films show it to be

 

it was overstressed, slow and unwieldy, it was only "good" at range where the british 6 pounder and 75mm guns of the shermans couldn't retaliate. when close up, they shot the road wheels and immobilised the thing. no insta-repair track kits for the KT!

do note the kind of opposition it faced IRL as compared to what it faces in the game. here it faces tanks from far later periods with far more advanced guns, whereas IRL it faced shermans, matilda's churchills and T-34's etc.. that is going to make it look better that what it would when faced with a T-62A


 

the *better* German tank was the Panther, which had comparable armour but was faster and more mobile. the Jagdpather was also a very well made and utilised tank destroyer, if only they had made more than the 380~ they completed and spent less time on abominations like the Maus and its alternate forms

every nation suffered from such however, all trying to build the best "super" tank they could, tortoise being a british example of a failure in engineering. it couldn't even be transported by the rail carriers known in WW2.. how on earth would you get it to the front line?


 

back to the game, yes it could need a buff, but if you buff all the "weak" tanks in a tier, they'll always be a top dog, always one that will be "better" than the others.. and what will happen to the lower tiers? its not just that tank that is affected by a buff or nerf


 



sabre_ferret #5 Posted 26 January 2018 - 02:41 PM

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View PostIsharial, on 26 January 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

 if only they had made more than the 380~ they completed and spent less time on abominations like the Maus and its alternate forms

 

If only?!  Are you sure about that?



Isharial #6 Posted 26 January 2018 - 02:44 PM

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View Postsabre_ferret, on 26 January 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

 

If only?!  Are you sure about that?

 

in the sense of the war effort, yes, for had they made more of them, the war would have been different. as I said, that goes for all nations...

all experimenting with prototypes either doomed to failure, or spent far longer on ones that were underpowered or useless


 

Cromwell suffered from failures and engine trouble early on, because the engines were "needed" elsewhere. had they been given the engine earlier in the war, it would have been different again.

 

my point being, that it was regarded as a very good tank, and loved by its crews, yet they did not build them in numbers, favouring tanks like the tiger 2, jagdtiger (which was never much of a success until the retreat to Germany itself) and the mobile pillbox called Ferdinand

tanks which ultimately lost them the war on the ground


 


 


Edited by Isharial, 26 January 2018 - 02:47 PM.


Graeme0 #7 Posted 26 January 2018 - 02:46 PM

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The reputation of the Tiger lives on!! 

 

Alied soldirs were fearful of these tanks, even though the Tiger was involved in one in thirty tank clashes..!!!

 

I disagree the Tiger 2 needs a buff as its a bad thing to buff individual tanks and will just power creep more.

 

I think both the Tiger and Tiger2 need either pref mm to tier 8, or something like Dava mentions



Isharial #8 Posted 26 January 2018 - 02:48 PM

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View PostGraeme0, on 26 January 2018 - 02:46 PM, said:

The reputation of the Tiger lives on!!

 

Alied soldirs were fearful of these tanks, even though the Tiger was involved in one in thirty tank clashes..!!!

 

I disagree the Tiger 2 needs a buff as its a bad thing to buff individual tanks and will just power creep more.

 

I think both the Tiger and Tiger2 need either pref mm to tier 8, or something like Dava mentions

 

now that's a better idea...


 

I don't think they'll give it pref MM however, judging by how its affecting the MM structure. however dropping it a tier and rebalancing its stats abit (HP etc..) it would do well as a heavy tank there. that goes for the Tiger 1 too

 



DurtiArry #9 Posted 26 January 2018 - 03:12 PM

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Buff the Hydrostat whilst you are in the polishing room please, its very dull.

Thanks WG

Cheers

 

see what i did there?



Coldspell #10 Posted 26 January 2018 - 03:15 PM

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Tbh if they reversed the German engine nerf of yester year, marginally buffed dpm and added a bit more armour to the turret roof it could be a decent heavium.

Fediuld #11 Posted 26 January 2018 - 03:16 PM

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View PostIsharial, on 26 January 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

 

it wasn't the best tank at all, far less useful that what documentaries and films show it to be

 

it was overstressed, slow and unwieldy, it was only "good" at range where the british 6 pounder and 75mm guns of the shermans couldn't retaliate. when close up, they shot the road wheels and immobilised the thing. no insta-repair track kits for the KT!

do note the kind of opposition it faced IRL as compared to what it faces in the game. here it faces tanks from far later periods with far more advanced guns, whereas IRL it faced shermans, matilda's churchills and T-34's etc.. that is going to make it look better that what it would when faced with a T-62A


 

the *better* German tank was the Panther, which had comparable armour but was faster and more mobile. the Jagdpather was also a very well made and utilised tank destroyer, if only they had made more than the 380~ they completed and spent less time on abominations like the Maus and its alternate forms

every nation suffered from such however, all trying to build the best "super" tank they could, tortoise being a british example of a failure in engineering. it couldn't even be transported by the rail carriers known in WW2.. how on earth would you get it to the front line?


 

back to the game, yes it could need a buff, but if you buff all the "weak" tanks in a tier, they'll always be a top dog, always one that will be "better" than the others.. and what will happen to the lower tiers? its not just that tank that is affected by a buff or nerf


 

 

 

a) All the german tanks suffer the same issues all the real tanks in the game. 

They are more or less strict on how they were in reality, while they are facing tanks that they never did. 

 

Tiger 2 was facing T34/76, IS-1 and to lesser extend IS-2 at the eastern front, and M4 shermans with some Fireflies at the Western Front. 

No IS7s, IS4s, IS3, T32s, T34s, M103s, Caern, Conqueror etc. Let alone the french autoloaders which were from the late 50s/60s. 

 

Even the M4Rev which is actually the M51 Israeli tank, are tanks made in the 60s, where by that time the Tigers & Panthers were 20 years old designs. 


b) Also look at the relative sizes. 

 

T34 was 2.4m tall tank. IS series were 2.5m tall tanks. Tiger 2 and Panther were 3m tall. 

Do the Russian tanks in WOT seem to you just 0.5m shorter than the Tigers? (1/6th height difference) The Russians are half the height than the German tanks and some where not even my 5 year old niece doesn't fit in them. 

 

Same applies to their meds. All of the Ruskies tier 10s should be 2.4m tall (as per spec and real made tanks like the T62), but they are 1/3 the size of the M48 which is just 3m tall. 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Fediuld, 26 January 2018 - 03:17 PM.


VsUK #12 Posted 26 January 2018 - 03:30 PM

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Problem with buffing the Tiger 2 is that they'll need to buff the E-75 & E-100 also. The E-75 is not much better than the Tiger 2 & the E-100 is a joke. Its turret is worthless & everyone pens it or constantly hitting the visor across the top like its the biggest thing to hit. Also, how does hitting the ends of the visor allow a tank to deal 300+ damage when it in no way impedes the functionality of the tank. You could put an angle grinder & cut them off & the tank would still function. 

Edited by VsUK, 26 January 2018 - 03:31 PM.


xPraetoriaNx #13 Posted 26 January 2018 - 03:33 PM

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Bringing down the tigers 1 tier would affect more stuff also. Like, if the "normal" Tiger gets to tier 6, what would you do with the premium tier 6 tigers? (TIger 131 and Heavy No. VI) You could say "make them tier 5", but that meets 2 problems.
1) Even the stock gun of the Tiger is too powerful for tier 5, as it has (150 penetration), so you'd have to either nerf it's rate of fire into the abyss, or equip it with a gun from lower tiers... And that'd look very weird. Imagine a Tiger with one of those toothpick guns tier 4 tanks have...
2) You simply can't put premium tanks into different tiers than they was originally.

Coldspell #14 Posted 26 January 2018 - 03:33 PM

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View PostVsUK, on 26 January 2018 - 02:30 PM, said:

Problem with buffing the Tiger 2 is that they'll need to buff the E-75 & E-100 also. The E-75 is not much better than the Tiger 2 & the E-100 is a joke. Its turret is worthless & everyone pens it or constantly hitting the visor across the top like its the biggest thing to hit. Also, how does hitting the ends of the visor allow a tank to deal 300+ damage when it in no way impedes the functionality of the tank. You could put an angle grinder & cut them off & the tank would still function. 

E75 really doesn't need a buff,  it isn't the most idiot proof tier 9 any more but it is definitely one of the most versatile tier 9 heavies.



VsUK #15 Posted 26 January 2018 - 03:35 PM

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View PostxPraetoriaNx, on 26 January 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

Bringing down the tigers 1 tier would affect more stuff also. Like, if the "normal" Tiger gets to tier 6, what would you do with the premium tier 6 tigers? (TIger 131 and Heavy No. VI) You could say "make them tier 5", but that meets 2 problems.
1) Even the stock gun of the Tiger is too powerful for tier 5, as it has (150 penetration), so you'd have to either nerf it's rate of fire into the abyss, or equip it with a gun from lower tiers... And that'd look very weird. Imagine a Tiger with one of those toothpick guns tier 4 tanks have...
2) You simply can't put premium tanks into different tiers than they was originally.

 

Also, changing the stats & tier of premium tanks would really annoy everyone who purchased said tanks because of those stats & tier. As it would be false advertising. Selling a tank with one set of stats & then later edit those stats which devalue's the tank significantly.

Exozen #16 Posted 26 January 2018 - 03:36 PM

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It doesnt need a buff , it needs to get it's top gun removed and moved down a tier along with the Tiger and the E-75.

mvdt #17 Posted 26 January 2018 - 03:39 PM

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View PostExozen, on 26 January 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

It doesnt need a buff , it needs to get it's top gun removed and moved down a tier along with the Tiger and the E-75.

 

This^

Maybe do the following:

VI - Tiger

VII - Tiger II

VIII - E75

IX - E-100 with Krupp turret (the one it has now)

X - E-100 with Maus turret


Edited by mvdt, 26 January 2018 - 03:39 PM.


VsUK #18 Posted 26 January 2018 - 03:40 PM

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View PostColdspell, on 26 January 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

E75 really doesn't need a buff,  it isn't the most idiot proof tier 9 any more but it is definitely one of the most versatile tier 9 heavies.

 

I agree, I used to love playing my Tiger 2 & when I got the E-75 it felt much better. But when I took the plunge to get the E-100, it felt like I went backwards. Its horrible. No armour, having your hull covered with just turret exposed still gets penned & everyone seems to aim for the same thing, the visor. The front of the E-100 turret is just 10mm less than the Maus which has 260mm. But no one shoots the front turret of a maus because nothing will pen. The E-100 however acts drastically worse. I wish I never bothered with it personally! 

Thejagdpanther #19 Posted 26 January 2018 - 03:47 PM

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View PostExozen, on 26 January 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

It doesnt need a buff , it needs to get it's top gun removed and moved down a tier along with the Tiger and the E-75.

 

While it's sad and could be a sort of a solution, that's point out also the screw-up that wg made with the new tanks.

It's embarassing.



Simeon85 #20 Posted 26 January 2018 - 03:57 PM

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View PostVsUK, on 26 January 2018 - 03:30 PM, said:

Problem with buffing the Tiger 2 is that they'll need to buff the E-75 & E-100 also. 

 

E-75 and E100 are fine. 

 

View PostExozen, on 26 January 2018 - 03:36 PM, said:

It doesnt need a buff , it needs to get it's top gun removed and moved down a tier along with the Tiger and the E-75.

 

E 75 armour on tier 8 would be massively OP. Look at the VK 1001 P, that has (unangled front on), 200 effective lower, 275 effective upper, and 230 effective turret.. That is one of the most OP tanks in the game tier for tier. 

 

E 75 armour, is 230 effective lower, 275 effective upper, and 255 effective turret front.  At best angle you need 270 plus pen to reliably pen it anywhere, aside the small cupola.  That armour layout would put it pretty much immune to almost every tier 7 and 90% of tier 8s, which would make it a horribly OP tier 8, or they would have to nerf the gun and mobility so much it would be horrible to play. Whereas the current E 75 has decent mobility for a tier 9 heavy and a good gun. 

 

Tiger 1, E 75 and E 100 are all pretty well balanced for their tiers, they might need little tweaks here and there but moving 3 fairly well balanced tanks, when we are struggling for balance, to try and balance one underperforming one seems silly to me.

 

Just buff the Tiger 2, much easier. 

 


Edited by Simeon85, 26 January 2018 - 03:59 PM.





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