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The main problem with world of tanks.

3 5 7 pay to win problem with world of tanks new players problem wargaming wargaming slowly ruin game bad money

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Poll: 3, 5, 7 matchmaking is good? (183 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Do you think 3, 5, 7 matchmaking is good?

  1. Yes (48 votes [26.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.23%

  2. No (118 votes [64.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 64.48%

  3. No opinion (17 votes [9.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.29%

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IgnoreAnts #1 Posted 26 January 2018 - 08:52 PM

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Basically I took a break for like a year from this game for many reasons, but recently I started playing again and after a week I started to notice an obvious pattern and what is becoming a serious problem for this game. In a nutshell questionable pay to win and the infamous 3,5,7 matchmaking. These two in combination have made around 50% of battles seriously not fun. 

 

Let me go into more detail, and this is just my opinion you can agree or disagree because you also have an opinion. So when I first started playing this game in 2011 everyone was a beginner, everyone didn't know the maps and everyone didn't know how to play. You slowly went through the tiers, playing awful stock tanks and on maps you had no idea where to go on. This was fine though because it was the same for everyone and you slowly learn the maps, you learn about the tanks you're playing and it took a while to get to higher tiers and by that time you are at least an average skilled player so you could do alright.

 

So I have to say kudos to Wargaming the game has come a very long way since I first started and they have done a great job with a lot of things, BUT this new wave of just blatantly pay to win tanks, combined with being able to boost to tier 10s with real money added with 3, 5 ,7 matchmaking truly makes for some terrible gameplay.

 

Before you start crying at me for calling the game pay to win, please ask yourself, and check facts when you do, every tanks statistics are available to all. Is the Patriot better than both other American tier 8s? Is the Scorpion better than its tier 8 German counterpart? Is Defender the best tier 8 Russian tank? Is the Liberté better than the other tier 8 French tanks? Is the Löwe better than Tiger 2? Was the Primo Victoria better than the regular Centurion, and is the WZ-120-1G FT better than other Chinese tier 8s? ... The answer to all these questions is yes. All premium tier 8s in this list are just flat out better in almost every way than their tier 8 counterpart. So if I buy one and I run into the tier 8 from the line in a battle I have a clear advantage because my tank is just better than his. This is pay to win. Your money doesn't make you directly win but it gives you a clear advantage.

 

So now we move on to boosts and 3, 5, 7 matchmaking. As I mentioned at the start you would previously have to slowly grind the game, and this would give you the opportunity to learn the game. Now this is not required. You can simply give Wargaming hundreds of Euros buy loads of over powered tier 8 tanks and build free research with lots of boosts you also can buy with real money. Then you give Wargaming some more money and unlock yourself  tier 9 or 10 tanks. Then we have the real problem; with the 3, 5, 7 matchmaking you really rely on the three top tier players to do at least average, because you really have no chance fighting a tank two tiers above yourself. I'm literally witnessing half my battles being 15-2 or 15-0 or 0-15 or 3-15 in like 2-3 minutes of the battle starting. This is insane, and the reason is because your top tier players have no idea what they are doing, they are basically new players who had no time learning anything about how to play. They throw their tank away in the first 2 minutes and if the enemy team or if your team has at least average skilled top tier players they will roll over the battle in the next few minutes. (Some screenshots provided showing examples of the kind of players I'm talking about)

 

This is not fun in both scenarios, its boring for the game to be over in 2-3 minutes. It's boring to be stomped by 10 tanks and it's boring to stomp the enemy team also. It is just seriously not fun, and it will make a lot of players stop playing. The solution is simple. You should not be able to buy any tanks unless you own the related tier or have played a certain number of battles to begin with, also flat out 3, 5, 7 needs to go, and maybe its time for +1 matchmaking. The question is do Wargaming really care about this problem when they are making so much money from this fresh wave of people, who just buy their top tier tanks and ruin the matches? I guess we will see, but if it continues I won't be sticking around to find out.  

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Edited by IgnoreAnts, 28 January 2018 - 06:11 PM.


wordy00 #2 Posted 26 January 2018 - 09:30 PM

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I think the point about 3-5-7 MM and having poorer players at top tier is the most important. 

 

Game stomps (15-0) happen FAR more frequently due to this. You only have to look at the teams at the end of a game to know why. You had 3 x 46% top tiers and they had 3 x 52% top tiers. In that scenario when you are bottom tier it's so hard to influence a game. It's now even easier for platoons of good players to influence games especially if they get a platoon of bad ones. In my opinion the problem is worst in 3-5-7 with tier 9s as top tier. Most tier 9s have tier 10 guns which makes the problem worse.



_T_1_T_4_N_0_ #3 Posted 26 January 2018 - 09:35 PM

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3-5-7 is a good template but its like everything WG do as its pushed far to hard as the predominant template and then it becomes extremely tiresome for the player population.
I have no idea why they do this time & time again and why 5-15 & 15 templates are not used more in a mix for all tiers.
Infact 5-15 & 15 templates should have equal precedent  as predominant 3-5-7 is bad but actually 3-5-7 is as good as format as any.
 

vasilinhorulezz #4 Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:04 PM

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Just give same chances of 5-10 mm as 3-5-7, and keep single tier battles only for tier 10.

Edited by vasilinhorulezz, 26 January 2018 - 10:04 PM.


SuedKAT #5 Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:06 PM

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The last years balance wrecking in combination with the new 3-5-7 template really have killed a lot of entusiasm for the game on my part. If you asked me in 2016 if I thought +1 MM would be a good idea I'd answer no, now I'm torn on the other hand I find the variation fun, but on the other hand I strongly dislike the balance and the lack of impact you have if your bottom tier most of the time.

 

Personally I think the best fix would be to change the template prioritizing to 5-10/10-5 -> 15 -> 3-5-7

We also need a new class to be considered in the terms of MM weight, the Super HT.

 

I'm also not sold on the 3-5-7 template as template in the first place, the 3 tanks on the top have to large impact, if they are good it's quite likely that you in your bottom tier don't need to do much you'll win regardless, if they are bad you'll get roflstomped after 2-4 mins. Every tank, top, middle and bottom tier should have a fighting chance, that's really not the case most of the time anymore and that's very boring.


Edited by SuedKAT, 26 January 2018 - 10:06 PM.


IgnoreAnts #6 Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:07 PM

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View PostDumbNumpty, on 26 January 2018 - 09:35 PM, said:

 predominant 3-5-7 is bad but actually 3-5-7 is as good as format as any.
 

 

You are missing the point, the point is that if one team has 3 players in tier 9 tanks for example who do not have any experience and the other team has at leastt average players the game will be a roll over.


Edited by IgnoreAnts, 26 January 2018 - 10:15 PM.


Jigabachi #7 Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:18 PM

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The template is fine, it fixed a lot of problems. The problem is everything around it: The gamebalance is a huge mess and the playerbase is full of human bots.

Edited by Jigabachi, 26 January 2018 - 10:18 PM.


SlyMeerkat #8 Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:19 PM

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Im indifferent, I just play and move on, no point dwelling about it

bitslice #9 Posted 26 January 2018 - 10:23 PM

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It's OK at lower tiers, but at higher tiers there are too many 44% Window Licking brats that are playing E100's,

yet most other players who have tier X tanks tend to be pretty good.

 

Like you said, Roflstomps are boring for everyone, but now everything seems to depend on how good your top tiers are

 

Maybe skill based matches are bad, but these freaking useless brats need to naff off to My Little Pony World and stop ruining everyone's game.

 

 

 



Marcel_1965 #10 Posted 26 January 2018 - 11:15 PM

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Don't know if this is normal, but after 10 battles with Tiger and T29 with 0 % won battles with not even the slightest chance to win, mm seems to be not a very balanced system... If it was a balanced system, this would not be possible... Could someone explain how it is possible to get only the worst possible loser teams, causing more loss of wr in a evening than won in a couple of weeks? This seems to happen after a couple of good battles... If I would understand, maybe, just maybe  I wouldn't find WOT the most irritating game ever...

 



veso_vn #11 Posted 26 January 2018 - 11:20 PM

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I think is +2 matchmaking. If the game is +1 will be easy to balance the tanks and also people will play more mid tier games 

IgnoreAnts #12 Posted 26 January 2018 - 11:21 PM

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View PostMarcel_1965, on 26 January 2018 - 11:15 PM, said:

Don't know if this is normal, but after 10 battles with Tiger and T29 with 0 % won battles with not even the slightest chance to win, mm seems to be not a very balanced system... If it was a balanced system, this would not be possible... Could someone explain how it is possible to get only the worst possible loser teams, causing more loss of wr in a evening than won in a couple of weeks? This seems to happen after a couple of good battles... If I would understand, maybe, just maybe  I wouldn't find WOT the most irritating game ever...

 

 

Man I know exactly how you feel. I play some tanks and get 70+% winrate. Then others and get 40% and it feels like nothing I can do makes a difference. It's only because you are getting unlucky all the time with your top tier players being really bad and throwing their tanks away. It's the reason 3 5 7 doesn't work.

NoPoet406 #13 Posted 26 January 2018 - 11:43 PM

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World of Tanks: Bottom Tier Simulator 2018

Gremlin182 #14 Posted 26 January 2018 - 11:49 PM

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Normally I wouldn't mind 3 5 7 mm though it is causing a problem for tier 8 tanks.

The MM at the moment for someone in a tier 8 means they are hardly ever top tier and when they are its because its an all tier 8 game.

That seems to be the reality play a tier 8 and the games you get are.

Three tier 10s five tier 9s and 7 tier 8s.   or Five tier 9s and ten tier 8s.  or fifteen tier 8s.

 

If this was going to work there would have been games where I was top tier meeting lower tiers now this does happen but very infrequently.

Its like the deck is stacked in favour of tier 10 tanks who can of course never be anything but top tier or tier 9s who are only ever one tier down.

 

Maybe its the numbers of players at those tiers  after all the MM can only work with what its given if there just are not enough players at some tiers or many more player at some other tiers it will mess with the ideal matchup the game is trying to create.

 

As for Premium tanks esp tier 8 ones wargaming have a couple of options really.

Go the Berlin rout and make a premium tanks that's a copy of a standard one but throw in a special crew to get sales up.

Or make a premium tank that is better than other similar tier premiums, to be able to keep selling premiums each incarnation needs to have a selling point so we get power creep.

The type 59 was considered op at one time now its the defender, give it 6 months and everyone will have forgotten the defender and some new premium will be the op tank of choice.

 

 

 



Bikaz #15 Posted 27 January 2018 - 02:22 AM

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3-5-7 in my opinion is really bad. Not only does it mess up the tier 8s but especially all the mid tiers. There is so many TERRIBLE tanks. Take the tier 6 IKEA TD for example, it has absolutely nothing going for it besides camo and gun depression. But having those 2 strengths together makes no sense, since you can never peak agressively over hills against anything, youll just get spotted and oneshot by HE, because you have 580 hp and 15mm armor... I barely played tier 6 recently, but thats definetly been one of the worst grinds I had since I came back to the game. You are just allways the bottom dog that cant effectively decide anything. And the dpm is a joke as well. 1.5k for a tier 6 TD while for example the russian su100 with the 100mm has 2031. It has 10 more alpha, yet reloads almost 2 seconds faster and not only that it even has 350 instead of the swedish 330m view range.... And that at least has some frontal armor where HE doesnt oneshot it and some lower tiers bounce from time to time. And then, you get into tier 8 games!!! Imagine facing any tier8 tanks with a 580HP td that all it has going for it is camo and a bit of mobility that means nothing on the majority of the maps. I havent even bought the tier 7 yet, but most likely its just worth skipping and free exping to the udes and its top gun. Im far beyond the point where I can be bothered with stock tanks and sadly this has become a major buisnes model for the game recently. There's been so many lines lately, where all the bottom tier tanks are absolutely horrific to play and even the top tanks on tier 8 and 9 get some abysmal stock gun. Take the new IS-M on tier 8 for example. It starts out with the IS gun and turret! Youll need 42k exp to just be able to penetrate the hords of tier 9s and 10s you will meet and then you need another 14.5k exp to get the turret to bounce tier 8 tanks... 

 

But even all this balancing crap apart, even if youre fully researched, theres so many tanks that just dont work with +2 matchmaking. And then your top tiers are just unreliable or make bad decisions and the whole game collapses from there. Let some tier 9 tanks lose on tier 7s. The view range difference, the dpm, the guns and armor. This used to be so much less off an issue with the old MM design. Like sure there was games where there was 13 top tier tanks and you were one of the last 2 tanks at the bottom. But then you could just play accordingly as support and try to work towards a win. At least the game wasnt balanced arround 3 tanks in your team beeing able to do their own hitpoints in damage.


Ive had so many battles where we just stomped enemy teams and then we just find their tier 10 tank destroyers like E3s sitting in the corner sniping because "Hey I have a triangle, Im a sniper!" and I just know exactly why we won the game. 

 

While I think P2W tankwise isnt the major deal, as its balanced by the terrible matchmaking system. Yes they are blatently better than their same tier normal counterpart, but the fact you can get straight up buy boosts etc. just makes grinds so fast. And while I personally enjoy that, as Ive grinded plenty in the game and its nice grinding bad tanks quickly, its also becoming a major issue, as players that are completly inexperienced just rush their way through the techtree. I think I bought my first tier 10 with about 6k battles. And I barely played it because I wanted to get better first, so I can carry my weight and actually enjoy playing the tank. Ive had so many tier 10 top tiers lately with like 4k battles and 45% win rate or worse. Of course they cant learn if they rush through the grind and then they only get stomped on. Theyll either lose interest (which would be the better option) or they just dont know better and are happy to play their strong tanks and do 2-3 shots of damage a game because they dont know better...



NUKLEAR_SLUG #16 Posted 27 January 2018 - 04:30 AM

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Given the thread title I'm confused where the "Whiny, entitled player base" poll option is.

CoDiGGo #17 Posted 27 January 2018 - 01:06 PM

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I agree about 3-5-7.

 

IMO 3-5-7 needs skill balance (soft) between top tiers, noobs vs good top tiers not to be possible



Fediuld #18 Posted 27 January 2018 - 02:10 PM

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I do not see the 3-5-7 work properly because

a) pref MM tanks like the IS6 and Type 59 are playing all Tier 8 battles at best. Non preff MM Tier 8 tanks, are almost constantly in tier 10 battles. 

b) Tier 6 prem tanks like the 131 and HT Tiger are almost constantly on Tier 8 battles. Those tanks are worse than their tier 6 opponents let alone tier 8 tanks. 

c) the biggest beneficiaries of the new MM are tier 5 and 7 tanks which play almost always now on their own tier battles. However they almost never face lower tier tanks. 

 

but WG doesn give crap of what we think. 

 



Erwin_Von_Braun #19 Posted 27 January 2018 - 03:12 PM

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Truthfully, I couldn't give a monkeys about MM

I just want to make things go BOOM!!!:izmena:



CaptKhazi #20 Posted 27 January 2018 - 04:11 PM

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It's not the MM, it's the vast numbers of ability challenged players who influence the team's ability to win or lose.




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