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HE fired down on to E25 roof at point blank range


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sabre_ferret #1 Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:49 AM

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I got charged down by an over enthusiastic E25 in my Jumbo, and as soon as he failed to track me and get around the side I thought he should be screwed, as I was able to fire down on to his roof.  Not a single shot penetrated.  I had a HEAT round loaded for the first shot, which naturally bounced, and then out of the next five rounds each one did about a 100dmg.  How the hell is this possible when the roof of the E25 has 20mm armour?  Even if I had been really unlucky and caught the cupola, that only has 30mm of protection.  Has anyone any idea how this is possible?  

Kooallu #2 Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:55 AM

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View Postsabre_ferret, on 30 January 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

I got charged down by an over enthusiastic E25 in my Jumbo, and as soon as he failed to track me and get around the side I thought he should be screwed, as I was able to fire down on to his roof.  Not a single shot penetrated.  I had a HEAT round loaded for the first shot, which naturally bounced, and then out of the next five rounds each one did about a 100dmg.  How the hell is this possible when the roof of the E25 has 20mm armour?  Even if I had been really unlucky and caught the cupola, that only has 30mm of protection.  Has anyone any idea how this is possible?  

 

give us replay or it didnt happen

iztok #3 Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:56 AM

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Hi!

HE ammo does NOT overmatch and usually has low pen. So low pen hitting at shallow angle didn't pen, and lost 50% - armor damage. Assuming 170 HE damage, halved  and -20, you were very lucky to score over 100 damage with individual shot.

 

BR, Iztok



ricoBenitez1 #4 Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:58 AM

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As allway where is the replay ??

Not much any can really say here without the replay.



arthurwellsley #5 Posted 30 January 2018 - 10:00 AM

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View Postiztok, on 30 January 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

Hi!

HE ammo does NOT overmatch and usually has low pen. So low pen hitting at shallow angle didn't pen, and lost 50% - armor damage. Assuming 170 HE damage, halved  and -20, you were very lucky to score over 100 damage with individual shot.

 

BR, Iztok

 



Obsessive_Compulsive #6 Posted 30 January 2018 - 10:40 AM

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sabre_ferret #7 Posted 30 January 2018 - 10:43 AM

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View PostKooallu, on 30 January 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

 

give us replay or it didnt happen

 

Shhh.  You are exceptionally boring and unimaginative.  It's a simple technical question, not a moan.

 

View Postiztok, on 30 January 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

Hi!

HE ammo does NOT overmatch and usually has low pen. So low pen hitting at shallow angle didn't pen, and lost 50% - armor damage. Assuming 170 HE damage, halved  and -20, you were very lucky to score over 100 damage with individual shot.

 

BR, Iztok

 

Does the angle count with HE?  I assumed it was only relevant to AP, what with the explosive force being in all directions on impact...

Edited by sabre_ferret, 30 January 2018 - 10:50 AM.


Enforcer1975 #8 Posted 30 January 2018 - 10:49 AM

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View Postsabre_ferret, on 30 January 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

 

 

Does the angle count with HE?  I assumed it was only relevant to AP, what with the explosive force being in all directions on impact...

 

https://tanks.gg/tan...=41211b&vm=live

9IBrownie #9 Posted 30 January 2018 - 10:55 AM

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HE does only full damage when it penetrates before it explodes.

 

If it explodes on the surface of the hull because it didn't penetrate, it will only do a reduced amount of damage, which is called splash damage. And that was around 100hp as you said.



iztok #10 Posted 30 January 2018 - 10:55 AM

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View Postsabre_ferret, on 30 January 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

Does the angle count with HE?  I assumed it was only relevant to AP, what with the explosive force being in all directions on impact...

 

It does for penetration check. If it does not pen, then the "detonation" mechanics comes into play.

HugSeal #11 Posted 30 January 2018 - 11:04 AM

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View Postsabre_ferret, on 30 January 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

View PostKooallu, on 30 January 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

 

give us replay or it didnt happen

 

Shhh.  You are exceptionally boring and unimaginative.  It's a simple technical question, not a moan.

 

View Postiztok, on 30 January 2018 - 09:56 AM, said:

Hi!

HE ammo does NOT overmatch and usually has low pen. So low pen hitting at shallow angle didn't pen, and lost 50% - armor damage. Assuming 170 HE damage, halved  and -20, you were very lucky to score over 100 damage with individual shot.

 

BR, Iztok

 

Does the angle count with HE?  I assumed it was only relevant to AP, what with the explosive force being in all directions on impact...

 

Haha, you are hilarious. Someone asking for something perfectly resonable and you act rude? Is there something we shouldn't see in that replay perhaps? Have you considered by a "technical question" may actually be easier to answer if we have the technicalities and not just hearsay from you?

 

And of course it does, you are talking about penetration. Angle affects armour thickness. See how those two may have something to do with eachother?


Edited by HugSeal, 30 January 2018 - 11:07 AM.


UrQuan #12 Posted 30 January 2018 - 11:22 AM

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Most folks have said it already, but to summarize;

 

- HE doesn't have overmatch mechanics (but also doesn't have an autobounce angle)

- No normalisation either (so best bet for a pen is shooting flat armor head on, anything else will likely end in a non-pen HE detonation), so even 20mm of armor will be hard to pen at a flat angle (as you mentioned HEAT bounced, it indicates you shot at a very shallow angle: HEAT autobounces at 85 degrees, extra note: HEAT doesn't have overmatch rules either)

 

In short, you would been better off shooting the sides with HEAT, you did good on shooting the roof with HE: thinner armor; more damage. A detail is that if you shot the cupola (side) with HE/HEAT it would also have penned (sure for HEAT, verly likely for HE as well if midde of cupola got hit)

Or simply should have fired AP, would have gone through the roof (overmatch mechanics) and be more efficient at the same time then using HE/HEAT

 

Angles matter alot & crazy angles can do crazy things.


Edited by UrQuan, 30 January 2018 - 11:24 AM.


sabre_ferret #13 Posted 30 January 2018 - 11:49 AM

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View Postiztok, on 30 January 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

 

It does for penetration check. If it does not pen, then the "detonation" mechanics comes into play.

 

Thanks!

 

View PostHugSeal, on 30 January 2018 - 11:04 AM, said:

 

Haha, you are hilarious. Someone asking for something perfectly resonable and you act rude? Is there something we shouldn't see in that replay perhaps? Have you considered by a "technical question" may actually be easier to answer if we have the technicalities and not just hearsay from you?

 

And of course it does, you are talking about penetration. Angle affects armour thickness. See how those two may have something to do with eachother?

 

No, he made a very weak effort at suggesting I was lying, in a stupid cliched manner.  And you can do one.  

Edited by sabre_ferret, 30 January 2018 - 11:51 AM.


UrQuan #14 Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:05 PM

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View Postsabre_ferret, on 30 January 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:

 

 

No, he made a very weak effort at suggesting I was lying, in a stupid cliched manner.  And you can do one.  

 

The replay request is a normal thing. So many people claim dumb stuff every day and expect people to read their minds. 

Simple matter of the day is, a replay allows us to give you a much more detailed explanation on what happened. At least you provided enough details, so the replay wasn't needed to determine the why & how. But most folks go *I couldn't pen E-25 from close range* and expect us to figure out what happened, based on that. Hence the need for replay, to see if what the person said actually lines up with what happened (spoiler: in many cases it doesn't, in your case, I'm sure it happened, simply because you used HE & HEAT, who both don't have overmatch nor normalisation rules & fit with the scenario you described)

 

In short: don't get offended because people wanted to check if you spoke the truth or not, because in most cases, people with odd claims aren't fully honest on what transpired.

 



K_A #15 Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:13 PM

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You should've shot the cupola if you saw his roof, that's 30mm and has a better angle on it so you could've penned that with HE even. You'll know better next time.

Jigabachi #16 Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:16 PM

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View Postsabre_ferret, on 30 January 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

Shhh.  You are exceptionally boring and unimaginative.  It's a simple technical question, not a moan.

Technical questions require technical data. "I shot the roof" isn't anywhere enough and let's not forget that the human mind is very susceptible for all kinds of delusion and distorted perception, thus... replay.



HugSeal #17 Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:25 PM

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View Postsabre_ferret, on 30 January 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:

No, he made a very weak effort at suggesting I was lying, in a stupid cliched manner.  And you can do one.  

 

lolnope. You are reading in too much in very little. Thing is, questions like these are infinitely easier to answer if you attach a replay. replay or it didn't happen is a spoof on the very common phrase "pics or it didn't happen" which means someone wants more information about something in the form of pictures.

 

So the poster you were rude to was simply asking for more information in a somewhat witty manner, not implying you are lying. My answer was written on the basis of your rudeness and i didn't imply you were lying either. I just found your refusal to post a replay curious.


Edited by HugSeal, 30 January 2018 - 12:25 PM.


Balc0ra #18 Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:36 PM

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Did you hit the roof, or the rear upper plate with the antenna on, or the rear plate with the ammo hatch on? As the roof vs a Jumbo is at 70 degrees or more, giving it lots of effective armor even with 20mm. And HEAT has 78mm on a low roll iirc. That roof with more then 70 degrees gets close to 90 effective at some spots. So HE won't do much there vs if you aimed at the rear plates that are 30mm. The ammo door hatch is at the same angle as your gun should be. So HE should hit that flat on. Giving max damage.

sabre_ferret #19 Posted 30 January 2018 - 12:48 PM

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View PostHugSeal, on 30 January 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

 

lolnope. You are reading in too much in very little. Thing is, questions like these are infinitely easier to answer if you attach a replay. replay or it didn't happen is a spoof on the very common phrase "pics or it didn't happen" which means someone wants more information about something in the form of pictures.

 

So the poster you were rude to was simply asking for more information in a somewhat witty manner, not implying you are lying. My answer was written on the basis of your rudeness and i didn't imply you were lying either. I just found your refusal to post a replay curious.

 

Sorry but no, he was rude.  I gave him the same treatment in response.  You taking sides in that situation is rude as well.  I don't really care because it's online shenanigans, but I will not be lectured on rudeness by someone who is themselves being rude.  

 

I didn't refuse to post a replay, and if it was a genuine OMG this game iz riggd post, I would, but as I already said, this is just a question about mechanics of the game.  As the intelligent and helpful replies above have shown; I posted the necessary information and got what I wanted in reply.  The drivel about needing replays is just people who post the same Edited every time they see anyone asking anything about the game.  

 

This post has been edited by the moderation team due to swearing. 


Edited by VMX, 01 February 2018 - 10:21 AM.


HugSeal #20 Posted 30 January 2018 - 01:03 PM

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View Postsabre_ferret, on 30 January 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

View PostHugSeal, on 30 January 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

 

lolnope. You are reading in too much in very little. Thing is, questions like these are infinitely easier to answer if you attach a replay. replay or it didn't happen is a spoof on the very common phrase "pics or it didn't happen" which means someone wants more information about something in the form of pictures.

 

So the poster you were rude to was simply asking for more information in a somewhat witty manner, not implying you are lying. My answer was written on the basis of your rudeness and i didn't imply you were lying either. I just found your refusal to post a replay curious.

 

Sorry but no, he was rude.  I gave him the same treatment in response.  You taking sides in that situation is rude as well.  I don't really care because it's online shenanigans, but I will not be lectured on rudeness by someone who is themselves being rude.  

 

I didn't refuse to post a replay, and if it was a genuine OMG this game iz riggd post, I would, but as I already said, this is just a question about mechanics of the game.  As the intelligent and helpful replies above have shown; I posted the necessary information and got what I wanted in reply.  The drivel about needing replays is just people who post the same Edited every time they see anyone asking anything about the game.  

 

*** or itdidn't happen isn't rude. Something you should know if you knew anything about "online shenanigans"

 

So, you weren't refusing to post a replay? Then how come you acted rude to the peopel asking for it and there still is no replay here? Hmmmm


Edited by VMX, 01 February 2018 - 10:22 AM.





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