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make Yugoslavian or Serbian tech tree

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M5A1 #21 Posted 09 January 2019 - 05:41 PM

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View PostNinjasaky, on 09 January 2019 - 05:05 PM, said:

Here a list of modern tanks currently in World of Tanks.

 

Leopard PT A <1965

Leopard 1 1965

T-62A (which is even more advanced than the T-72 in terms of performance) 1962

M48A5 Patton 1967 or earlier

AMX 30 B 1966

STB-1 1964

Ikv 90 Typ B  1965

UDES 03 1972

Strv 103B 1967

Progetto M40 mod. 65 1965

I don't see how you can compare a tank from the 60s to a tank from 1984.

You now would say that the M48A5 is from '76 but the only changes from the A1 and A3 version consisted in a smaller cupola and different machine guns. These are things which have limited effect in WoT. 

If you assume the same speed of development in the 70s as in the 30s, you would say that it's fine for a Pz 38(t) to be matched against a Tiger II, or a BT-5 competing against a T-54.

Also:

Block Quote

 1. If you want historically accurate tanks, then you are in the wrong game. 

 

If you want modern MBTs, then you are in the wrong game. I head there is a russian developer who just recently added those to the game.

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 2. It is well known that World of Tanks has a lot of prototypes in the game that never saw day of light in history.

 I have yet to see such a tank from Yugoslavia. That would actually fit into the game.

Block Quote

 3. It is also well known that World of Tanks has a lot of modern tanks which perform just fine. A high caliber shell is still a shell and armor is still armor, 

 Wrong. Modern tanks are way better protected than their 1950s counterparts. Even the T-55s that are in service nowadays have been up-armored against modern weaponry. There is a reason that in conflict today modern tanks remain mostly intact during firefights. Also, not a single tank in WoT has a digital fire computer as far as I am informed.

Block Quote

 

4. I dont yell, I inform and educate. Your pique is thus not my concern, since I am correctfully finding things funny. Thus thank you for the good laughs.

 

You should note that making uneducated statements is generally offending to educated people that have knowledge about a certain matter.

 

If you cared to google then you would find the right information instantly before posting nonsense but clearly you didn't since you personally are not interested in the Yugoslavian tech tree proposal and I couldn't care less.

 If you don't intend to yell, you should avoid writing entire sentences in large and bold letters.

I would be interested in a new nation in the game since I'd really love more unique vehicles to research and drive... But I have not seen a single tank in this thread that would fot into the game, be balanced and more or less historically correct. Not one single tank.

Block Quote

 

5. All of a sudden you forgot about the original domestic Yugoslavian tech tree starting from WW1 onwards.

And yes of course a lot of low tier(under VI/VII) Yugoslavian tanks are based on the hulls of some already existing tanks of other nations, some more and some less. Some original imports and some modified.

That is exactly why I am talking higher tiers here, because the Yugo tech tree is already known in World of Tanks but not implemented.

 Sorry I was not able to find one of the vehicles you are talking about. Please show them to me and present me how they could be integrated into the game and I shut up immediately.

Block Quote

 6. Never did I compare anything to German tanks. I just made a example, what if... but I don't. You can't compare apples and pears. The pear is heavier than the apple but softer and the apple is lighter but harder and bigger.

 I was using the plural-"you" to answer to yours and wolfs statement together. This may have been confusing.



Ninjasaky #22 Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:22 PM

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Elefantas #23 Posted 10 January 2019 - 01:38 PM

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half thread is about one M-84

o.k. we got it its not Russian

where are the rest 9 tanks ?

so you can have a non "Russian" or "German" or "Whatever" country has it's origins tech tree



Ninjasaky #24 Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:49 PM

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General information and clarifications to read first before posting any kind of uneducated nonsense which will be ignored.

 

 

1. Some of you may have not noticed, is that my part of the involvement of the Yugoslavian tech tree proposal focuses more towards the modern addition towards the heavy tank tech tree line,

which the original Yugoslavian tech tree does not have. It only has light tanks, medium tanks, tank destroyers and self propelled guns in its stock tech tree lines.

 

2. As you may have noticed, especially the players that play since 2011 like myself, know that every nation's original tech trees in World of Tanks was added stock,

without the additional more modern tank trees that were added later on across nations in the game.

There were only the major tank developing nations in the game at the time.

Which were: Germany, USSR and USA

And these is a reason for that which I am gonna explain further on in this post.

 

3. To everyone involved in proposals in this forum section. Everyone that followed more on this part of the forum, may have noticed that there are numerous Yugoslavian tank tree proposals. which I am gonna link some proposals later on in this post as there are numerous proposals, different tanks and arrangements from the one to the other.

 

4. I do understand that the Western, European, East-European and Asiatic player base does not pay attention to the history of Yugoslavian tank development and history.

Simply because their own lack of knowledge about Yugoslav history in general and especially when it comes to World of Tanks, since Yugoslavia was a socialist federal republic,

Which leaves the Ex-Yugoslavian player base active on these topics and proposals as they do best understand the Yugoslavian history in general when it comes to this matter and the game itself.

Thus this is not a nationalistic/patriotic driven topic due to these facts.

 

5. Important to note is that this is World of Tanks, which in-game focuses on tanks of tank developing countries and sub-developing countries.

Please leave all kind of politics out of the game, especially in this thread, or you will be ignored permanently.

 

6.

1. Major tank developing countries

2. Minor tank developing countries

 

1. Major tank developing countries are those countries who developed their tanks distinctively from pre-planing all the way through final production and assembly without copyright infringement of other countries tank development.

In history, those countries were Germany, the USSR and USA. Their tanks are very distinctive one from each other, simply because their military defense industries did not have any ties or business together. They kind of ignored each other cold war style. And this is where World of Tanks is born, starting with only those three nations in the game. But the game became boring very fast, so Wargaming decided to add more countries.

 

2. Minor tank developing countries are those countries who developed their tanks by borrowing, lending, renting or buying licences of a countries patented tank/s or parts, that gives them the right to develop, overhaul and modify a already patented and/or developed tank to their liking and needs, add or modify the tanks systems and parts. All the tank parts have to be produced and assembled all the way through final assembly of the tank by that country without any further involvement by any other country or nation and patented by that country under a new name and they have their own domestic tank.

 

7. About all other nation's development added to World of Tanks

Apart from Germany, USSR and the USA as the original distinctive tank developing nations as the staple of World of Tanks.

All other added nations are mostly those countries that are minor tank developing countries which incorporate the use of blueprints and parts from other nations.

 

For example and clarification:

Sweden got the blueprints for their UDES and Strv tank destroyers from Germany, which they then developed further.

Swedish light, medium and heavy tanks are a mix of Czechoslovakian, Hungarian, French and Soviet/Russian tanks.

France - Not all french tanks are completely french. Some have British parts and German influence

U.K./Britain - Canadian and US/American parts and influence.

China - Soviet/Russian, French, US/American, UK/Britain, Japan

Japan - French elements

Czechoslovakia - Netherlands, Soviet/Russian

Poland - UK/Britain

Italy - Germany and France

 

So please do abstain from posting any kind of copycat nonsense and spam.

 

 

Let's get started

 

1. Vehicle pool of and for the standard Yugoslavian tech tree without the heavy tank tech tree line.

 

Renault M26/27 (Light Tank)

 

Praga P-IIa (Light Tank)

SO 105 H-35 (Artillery)

T-32 (Tank Destroyer)

 

S-IIa-j (Light Tank)

SO-105 M18 (Artillery)

SO-57mm (Tank Destroyer)

Stuart Pak40 (Tank Destroyer)

Panzer III Pak40 (Tank Destroyer)

 

Somua S35 6Pdr (Medium Tank)

SO-150 M3A3 (Artillery)

SO-75mm (Tank Destroyer)

SO-76/85 Maybach (Tank Destroyer)

 

PZ Mk IV 75mm (Medium Tank)

SO-122(H) M4 (Artillery)

SO-76 M18 (Tank Destroyer)

 

Vozilo A (Medium Tank)

SO-155(H) T-34 (Artillery)

Vozilo B (Tank Destroyer)

T-34-90mm (Medium Tank)

 

M328 Galeb (Medium Tank) 

SO-155(T) M4 MOD (Artillery)

SO-122 A19 M4 (Tank Destroyer)

HellCat T-55 (Tank Destroyer)

M4 Sherman 105mm (Medium Tank)

 

M320 (Medium Tank)

SO-152(T)/155(T) T-54 (Artillery)

 

M636 Kondor (Medium Tank)

SO-203(H) T54/55 (Artillery)

 

M636D (Medium Tank)

SO-203(T) T-55 (Artillery)

 

 

 

2. Various Yugoslavian tech tree proposals and their different variations (source links)

 

https://pikpikker.ne...s.org/yug.html#

https://thearmoredpa...-made-proposal/

http://ftr.wot-news....t-v-yugoslavia/

 

 

 

3. Back to the M-84 heavy tech tree line

 

As all the nations in World of Tanks received more modern tanks and tank tech tree lines with time later on in the game since its launch.

We are working on a proposal of a heavy tank tech tree line, with the M-84 as the tier X top of the line heavy tank as the counterpart of the modern tanks of other nations in World of Tanks as mentioned before.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Constructive comments only. Any other kind of spam will be ignored.

 

That's it for today.


Edited by Ninjasaky, 10 January 2019 - 05:59 PM.


Elefantas #25 Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:59 PM

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you did a great job gathering all that info but

why you insist on making a new tech tree full of copies ?

which of all this is unique Yugoslavian concept and manufactured?


Edited by Elefantas, 10 January 2019 - 06:02 PM.


M5A1 #26 Posted 10 January 2019 - 06:28 PM

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View PostElefantas, on 10 January 2019 - 05:59 PM, said:

you did a great job gathering all that info but

why you insist on making a new tech tree full of copies ?

which of all this is unique Yugoslavian concept and manufactured?

 

Well, some of the info he gathered isn't even correct. 

Poland, Sweden, Japan, Czechoslovakia, Italy and especially france and the U.K. each had their own tank development program which resulted in unique tanks which were not copies of bought, captured, lend-leased etc. vehicles. So pushing the two nations which practically invented the tank into irrelevance is just ignorant. Every tank in the french tech tree was more french than any tank of your proposes techtree would be Yugoslavian.

I know that you want to redirect me to google again. I propose that you start using it yourself.



Jigabachi #27 Posted 11 January 2019 - 12:39 AM

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So much pointless text...
The only thing we are asking for: Build a tree that doesn't have any boring copies of tanks from other countries.

Ninjasaky #28 Posted 11 January 2019 - 07:25 AM

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View PostNinjasaky, on 10 January 2019 - 05:49 PM, said:

6.

1. Major tank developing countries

2. Minor tank developing countries

 

1. Major tank developing countries are those countries who developed their tanks distinctively from pre-planing all the way through final production and assembly without copyright infringement of other countries tank development.

In history, those countries were Germany, the USSR and USA. Their tanks are very distinctive one from each other, simply because their military defense industries did not have any ties or business together. They kind of ignored each other cold war style. And this is where World of Tanks is born, starting with only those three nations in the game. But the game became boring very fast, so Wargaming decided to add more countries.

 

2. Minor tank developing countries are those countries who developed their tanks by borrowing, lending, renting or buying licences of a countries patented tank/s or parts, that gives them the right to develop, overhaul and modify a already patented and/or developed tank to their liking and needs, add or modify the tanks systems and parts. All the tank parts have to be produced and assembled all the way through final assembly of the tank by that country without any further involvement by any other country or nation and patented by that country under a new name and they have their own domestic tank.

 

7. About all other nation's development added to World of Tanks

Apart from Germany, USSR and the USA as the original distinctive tank developing nations as the staple of World of Tanks.

All other added nations are mostly those countries that are minor tank developing countries which incorporate the use of blueprints and parts from other nations.

 

For example and clarification:

Sweden got the blueprints for their UDES and Strv tank destroyers from Germany, which they then developed further.

Swedish light, medium and heavy tanks are a mix of Czechoslovakian, Hungarian, French and Soviet/Russian tanks.

France - Not all french tanks are completely french. Some have British parts and German influence

U.K./Britain - Canadian and US/American parts and influence.

China - Soviet/Russian, French, US/American, UK/Britain, Japan

Japan - French elements

Czechoslovakia - Netherlands, Soviet/Russian

Poland - UK/Britain

Italy - Germany and France

 

So please do abstain from posting any kind of copycat nonsense and spam.

 

Here a quick copy/paste from another thread.

 

 

 

Further information about point 6. line number 2.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

France

AnnoF52_RenaultUE57.png

The Renault UE 57 is a French tier 3 tank destroyer.

Developed in 1943 in Great Britain by mounting the 57-mm British Ordnance QF 6-pounder anti-tank gun on the chassis of the French tankette UE2.

The gun featured a muzzle brake designed specifically for this gun. One prototype was manufactured.

AnnoF33_S_35CA.png

The S35 CA is a French tier 5 tank destroyer.

Developed on the basis of the obsolete R35 and S35 vehicles.

The simple design allowed the open cabin with a British 17-pounder gun to be mounted on the chassis.

However, the project was discontinued during the design phase due to a shortage and obsolescence of pre-war chassis,

as well as an ineffective and unconventional gun.

AnnoF35_AMX_AC_Mle1946.png

The AMX AC mle. 46 is a French tier 7 tank destroyer.

Proposed plan for a heavy tank destroyer on the basis of the M4. Development was started in 1946.

The configuration of the vehicle had a strong resemblance to the Jagdpanther. Existed only in blueprints.

AnnoF36_AMX_AC_Mle1948.png

The AMX AC mle. 48 is a French tier 8 tank destroyer.

A draft project of a heavy tank destroyer, developed in 1947–1948 under the influence of the Jagdpanther.

AnnoF37_AMX50_Foch.png

The AMX 50 Foch is a French tier 9 tank destroyer.

From the late 1940s to the early 1950s, France was developing heavy tank destroyers.

This project was developed under the influence of German tank destroyers of WWII.

AnnoF07_AMX_M4_1945.png

The AMX M4 mle. 45 is a French tier 7 heavy tank.

Development of this heavy tank started in 1945.

The vehicle incorporated several design features of the Pz.Kpfw. VI Ausf. B Tiger II tank.

The vehicle existed only in blueprints.

AnnoF09_AMX_50_120.png

The AMX 50 120 is a French tier 9 heavy tank.

A prototype of the AMX 50 tank. Developed in the early 1950s under the influence of the Soviet IS-3 and T-10.

The tank featured enhanced armor and a 120-mm gun in the oscillating turret.

AnnoF10_AMX_50B.png

The AMX 50 B is a French tier 10 heavy tank.

Developed starting in 1951 by DEFA, the state weapons design bureau. By 1958, the AMX 50 B received a number of improvements,

including a low-profile cast hull and torsion-bar suspension. A new oscillating turret with a 120-mm gun was also mounted on the vehicle.

Despite the fact that the Maybach engine power provided just 1,000 h.p.,

specialists from the German Gruppe M company were looking for a solution that would allow the vehicle to reach a speed of up to 65 km/h.

AnnoF73_M4A1_Revalorise.png

The M4A1 Revalorisé is a French tier 8 premiummedium tank.

In the 1950s, the M4 Sherman of various modifications was supplied to France as part of MDAP.

French design bureaus started modernizing the vehicle with the goal of improving its firepower.

This initiative was followed by a modernization program for the Israel Defense Forces (Sherman M51).

 

U.K./Britain

AnnoGB14_M2.png

The M2 is a British tier 2 light tank.

American light tank. The M2A4 variant, manufactured from 1940 through 1942, was supplied to the U.K. under Lend-Lease.

A total of four vehicles of this variant were supplied to the U.K. in the fall of 1941.

The M2 is the British Lend Lease version of the American M2 Light Tank.

AnnoGB15_Stuart_I.png

The Stuart I-IV is a British tier 3 light tank.

Mass-produced from 1941 and supplied to the U.K. under Lend-Lease.

A a total of 6,889 were supplied to the British from M3 to M5A1 variants.

The M3 tanks were designated Stuart I by the British, while the M3A1 version was designated Stuart III.

AnnoGB17_Grant_I.png

The Grant is a British tier 4 medium tank.

This variant of the M3 Lee was manufactured in the United States specifically to be supplied to the U.K.,

where it was designated the General Grant (Grant I).

AnnoGB50_Sherman_III.png

The Sherman III is a British tier 5 medium tank.

The American M4A2 medium tank was manufactured with a diesel engine and supplied under Lend-Lease to the U.K.,

where it was designated the Sherman III.

AnnoGB19_Sherman_Firefly.png

The Sherman Firefly is a British tier 6 medium tank.

A British version of the American M4 Sherman tank, developed in early 1944.

It differed from the U.S. version by having a more powerful 17-pounder gun,

different placement of the radio and ammunition, no bow gun, and no driver's assistant position.

AnnoGB45_Achilles_IIC.png

The Achilles is a British tier 6 turreted tank destroyer.

The Achilles was a British variant of the American M10 GMC tank destroyer.

Standard M10 gun was replaced by a more powerful British anti-tank Ordnance Quick-Firing 17-pounder gun.

AnnoGB27_Sexton.png

The Sexton II is a British tier 3 self-propelled gun.

Modification of the Grizzly (M4A1 Sherman) tank, mounting the British 25-pounder field howitzer.

Mass production was launched at the Montreal Locomotive Works in Canada.

 

Japan

AnnoJ01_NC27.png

The Renault Otsu is a Japanese tier 1 light tank.

Developed from 1925 through 1928 in France as an upgraded modification of the Renault FT.

The modernization project was finished and the vehicle saw mass production.

In 1929, a total of 10 vehicles were purchased by Japan and were designated the Otsu-Gata Sensha (Tank B Model).

AnnoJ13_STA_1.png

The STA-1 is a Japanese tier 8 medium tank.

The first Japanese post-war tank was developed on the basis of U.S. vehicles.

The STA-1 was developed, taking into consideration Japanese terrain, rail network specifications, and anthropometric data of Japanese tankers.

Only one prototype was built, in December 1956.

AnnoJ18_STA_2_3.png

The STA-2 is a Japanese tier 8 premiummedium tank.

One of the first Japanese post-war tanks was developed on the basis of U.S. vehicles,

taking into consideration Japanese terrain, rail network specifications, and the smaller stature of Japanese tankers.

This variant prototype featured a shortened suspension and a larger hull height.

AnnoJ14_Type_61.png

The Type 61 is a Japanese tier 9 medium tank.

The first tank developed in Japan after WWII. It was developed from 1954 through 1961 on the basis of the American M47 tank.

The dimensions of the vehicle were decreased and the armor was reduced.

As a result, the weight of the tank was lighter, and the tank complied with the requirements of the Japanese armed forces.

 

Czechoslovakia

AnnoCz06_Kolohousenka.png

The Kolohousenka is a Czechoslovakian tier 1 light tank.

The light wheeled caterpillar tank developed on the chassis of the Hanomag WD-50 tractor.

AnnoCz05_T34_100.png

The Konštrukta T-34/100 is a Czechoslovakian tier 7 medium tank.

Development project of the Soviet T-34-85 tank, proposed in April 1954.

The Czechoslovakian variant of the vehicle was to receive a 100 mm gun and an enlarged turret.

AnnoPl14_4TP.png

The 4TP is a Polish tier 1 light tank.

Development of a new light tank for the needs of the Polish army started in 1935 at the Państwowe Zakłady Inżynieryjne (PZInż) works under the supervision of engineer Edward Habich.

Foreign developments had a great impact on the design of the new light tank. It was based on the 4-ton British Vickers Carden Loyd Commercial Light Tank.

AnnoPl09_7TP.png

The 7TP is a Polish tier 2 light tank.

The 7TP was a modification of the Vickers Mk.E British tank produced in Poland under license.

Unlike the original, this vehicle featured a more powerful PZInż. 235 engine (Saurer VBLDb), an improved turret, and better armament.

The first tanks manufactured had two turrets. In 1935, the Swedish Bofors company signed an agreement to produce a turret and gun that were intended for a single-turret model of the tank.

AnnoPl06_10TP.png

The 10TP is a Polish tier 3 light tank.

A project for a wheeled caterpillar cruiser tank developed in the late 1930s.

The project was based on the Christie tank.

AnnoPl07_14TP.png

The 14TP is a Polish tier 4 light tank.

This vehicle was to be a further development of the 10TP cruiser tank.

The 14TP was also supposed to feature the Christie suspension.

However, the project involved the caterpillar propulsion system only.

AnnoPl10_40TP_Habicha.png

The 40TP Habicha is a Polish tier 6 medium tank.

In the middle of 1939, Edward Habich designed several projects of vehicles considering the experience of German and Soviet engineers.

One of these projects involved the Horstmann suspension, 60 mm sloped armor, a small German turret, and a gun that featured high penetration and low recoil.

Thus, Habich developed a vehicle that combined the features of the Pz.Kpfw.IV German medium tank and the T-34 Soviet medium tank.

AnnoPl03_PzV_Poland.png

The Pudel is a Polish tier 6 premiummedium tank.

A variant of the Pz.Kpfw. V Panther Ausf. G, the most massively produced modification of the German Panther tank.

 

Sweden

AnnoS05_Strv_M21_29.png

The Strv fm/21 is a Swedish tier 1 light tank.

The LK II tank was developed in Germany in 1918. The vehicle underwent trials, and the German army placed an order for 1,000 tanks.

However, the order was not completed before the end of World War I. In 1920, Germany sold 10 LK II vehicles to Sweden, which entered service under the designation Stridsvagn fm/21.

AnnoS01_Strv_74_A2.png

The Strv m/42-57 Alt A.2 is a Swedish tier 6 premiummedium tank.

As part of development of the Strv 74, a project was proposed for a vehicle with the oscillating turret of the French AMX 13 tank and the 7,5 cm kan strv 74 gun.

AnnoS23_Strv_81_sabaton.png

The Primo Victoria is a Swedish tier 8 premiummedium tank.

About 240 Centurion Mk. III and Mk. V tanks were purchased for the needs of the Swedish Armed Forces.

The vehicles were designated Strv 81, underwent multiple modernizations and remained in service until the early 2000s.

In August 2017, one vehicle was presented to the Swedish band Sabaton and was brutally customized—the British steel was reforged to pure Swedish metal, and thus it became the true headbanger tank.

AnnoS16_Kranvagn.png

The Kranvagn is a Swedish tier 10 heavy tank.

A project for a new vehicle for the Swedish army that started in 1949.

For confidentiality purposes, the vehicle was given an unusual name, KRV, which stands for self-propelled crane (in Swedish).

The project was based on the French AMX 50.

 

Italy

AnnoIt04_Fiat_3000.png

The Fiat 3000 is an Italian tier 1 light tank.

The vehicle was developed on the basis of the Renault FT French light tank.

AnnoIt12_Prototipo_Standard_B.png

The Prototipo Standard B is an Italian tier 9 medium tank.

This vehicle is one of the prototypes developed and built under the Kampfpanzer Standard program (which Italy joined in 1958)

with the cooperation of Ingenieurbüro Warneke, Rheinstahl Hanomag, Henschel and Rheinmetall.

AnnoIt08_Progetto_M40_mod_65.png

The Progetto M40 mod. 65 is an Italian tier 10 medium tank.

In 1969, the Italian military delegation visited Germany to discuss the purchase of Leopard tanks.

However, not all members of the delegation agreed with the acquisition of foreign vehicles.

The Italian military experts and engineers specified the main requirements for the future tank: the slope angle of armor plates,

the cast turret and gun mantlet, as well as the powerful engine from Mitsubishi that allowed production of a small, light, maneuverable, but perfectly-armored vehicle.

The British and Soviet design plans collected by SIFAR-SID were taken into account.

 

China

AnnoCh06_Renault_NC31.png

The Renault NC-31 is a Chinese tier 1 light tank.

A Renault FT modification with a new chassis that used long-stroke suspension elements and Kégresse-Hinstin fanged rubber tracks with metal shoes.

These features, along with an upgraded 45 h.p. engine, increased the top speed to 16 km/h

AnnoCh07_Vickers_MkE_Type_BT26.png

The Vickers Mk. E Type B is a Chinese tier 2 light tank.

Developed in 1928 by J. V. Carden and V. Loyd. The vehicle never entered service in Great Britain.

However, it was exported to other countries, including China. In 1937, twenty vehicles of this type fought against Japanese troops at Shanghai.

Soviet Vickers-based T-26 vehicles were also exported to China

AnnoCh09_M5.png

The M5A1 Stuart is a Chinese tier 4 light tank.

The first tanks of the M5 series were produced in April 1942, and a new modification, the M5A1, was preferred over other variants.

After the M24 Chaffee was developed, the M5A1 tanks were deemed obsolete and were exported to other countries, including China.

AnnoCh21_T34.png

The Type T-34 is a Chinese tier 5 medium tank.

Among the 1,800 T-34 tanks supplied by the U.S.S.R. to China in the early 1950s, there was a number of T-34-76s.

After the tanks saw service in the PLA, almost all of them were sent to North Korea.

The usefulness of these tanks was extended by Chinese-designed upgrades, including a new engine and modernized suspension.

AnnoCh20_Type58.png

The Type 58 is a Chinese tier 6 medium tank.

The U.S.S.R. exported a total of 1,800 T-34-76 and T-34-85 tanks to China.

In 1954 the Chinese government made the decision to begin domestic production of the T-34-85 in 1958, with the new vehicle designated the Type 58.

However, production was never initiated, and the Chinese army settled for modifications to the Soviet-made T-34s.

AnnoCh04_T34_1.png

The T-34-1 is a Chinese tier 7 medium tank.

In 1954, the Chinese government considered the possibility of launching production of the T-34-85 in China.

At the same time, Chinese engineers proposed an alternative project: the T-34-1.

While based on the T-34-85, the T-34-1's transmission compartment and suspension were to be rearranged, reducing the overall weight and lowering the hull.

In 1954, several designs of the vehicle, with varying turrets and armament, were developed.

AnnoCh05_T34_2.png

The T-34-2 is a Chinese tier 8 medium tank.

The T-34-2 was not an upgraded modification of the Soviet T-34 tank, but was a totally different vehicle.

Chinese engineers conceived the T-34-2 as an analog of the Soviet T-54.

Later the U.S.S.R. passed the technology of T-54 production to China, and the T-34-2 project was discontinued.

AnnoCh18_WZ-120.png

The WZ-120 is a Chinese tier 9 medium tank.

Initially, the WZ-120 (Type 59) tank was a copy of the Soviet medium T-54A tank. In later modifications the tank was upgraded.

Between 6,000 and 9,500 vehicles of all variants were manufactured from 1958 through 1987.

AnnoCh10_IS2.png

The IS-2 is a Chinese tier 7 heavy tank.

Soviet IS-2 tanks were exported to China in the early 1950s and were used during the Korean War from 1950 through 1953.

According to U.S. reconnaissance data, at least four Chinese tank companies deployed in Korea had the IS-2 tank, with five tanks in each company.

The IS-2 remained in Chinese service until the late 1950s.

AnnoCh11_110.png

The 110 is a Chinese tier 8 heavy tank.

From the mid-1940s to the 1950s, Soviet engineers attempted to modernize the IS-2 tank.

The IS-2U variant, developed in November 1944, was conceived to have a reinforced frontal hull with a plate configuration resembling that of the IS-3.

In the mid-1950s the design project was passed to China and became the basis for further Chinese tank development.

AnnoCh12_111_1_2_3.png

The WZ-111 model 1-4 is a Chinese tier 9 heavy tank.

Prototype of a heavy tank developed in the early 1960s.

The 111 project was developed on the basis of the Soviet IS-3 and T-10 tanks.

In 1964 development was discontinued in favor of new types of medium tanks.

AnnoCh41_WZ_111_5A.png

The WZ-111 model 5A is a Chinese tier 10 heavy tank.

A prototype of the heavy tank developed in the early 1960s.

The 111 project was based on the design of the IS-2 and IS-3 Soviet tanks and was supposed to be similar to the T-10.

Among all other variants of the 111 tank, this vehicle featured improved frontal armor.

AnnoCh24_Type64.png

The Type 64 is a Chinese tier 6 premiumlight tank.

More than 50 of these vehicles were produced in Taiwan, ROC.

All basic components of the vehicle were based on those of American vehicles.

The Hellcat turret was mounted on the chassis of the M42 anti-aircraft vehicle, and the armament was the well-proven M1A2 gun.

AnnoCh26_59_Patton.png

The 59-Patton is a Chinese tier 8 premiummedium tank.

After 1960, Chinese government launched the development of a new tank.

The engineering experiments included a wide use of previously produced Type 59 tanks.

One vehicle was equipped with the turret, gun, and fire control system of an American M48A3 tank.


Edited by Ninjasaky, 11 January 2019 - 07:25 AM.


Ninjasaky #29 Posted 11 January 2019 - 07:50 AM

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View PostElefantas, on 10 January 2019 - 05:59 PM, said:

you did a great job gathering all that info but

why you insist on making a new tech tree full of copies ?

which of all this is unique Yugoslavian concept and manufactured?

 

Thank you on your interest. Yes it is true that Yugoslavian tanks just like any other nation added to World of Tanks after Germany, USSR and USA, that are mostly based on different countries.

 

Yes it is true, that Yugoslavian tanks are unique on its own.

Because Yugoslavia had the best of all worlds when it came to tanks, since it worked together with nations across the globe just like other nations except Germany, USSR and the USA.

Yugoslavian tank development and production would often take and modify and improve the best hull, the best gun, the best engine, the best drivetrain, turret, etc. Based on their needs and type of vehicle it was intended for.

Thus all the improved and modified parts machined, modified and put together assembling a tank, made it unique Yugoslavian in its own way.

Take for example the Samohodno orudije 122 mm M-4A3 Sherman Mod. SO-122

Notes:

Spoiler

 

I will come back later after finishing coffee. Or you could just inform yourself about the unique Yugoslavian tanks by going to this link that I have already posted previously.

You can click on each tanks picture that will open more information and detail about the vehicles if you wish.

 

https://pikpikker.ne...s.org/yug.html#

 

 



M5A1 #30 Posted 11 January 2019 - 08:23 AM

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Sorry to shock you but also German tanks were heavily influenced by russian tanks and vice versa.

For example the sloped armor of the Panther and then the Tiger II was a direct reaction to the russian T-34 that offered good protection while being relatively lightweight. The later US tank designs were influenced by the German tanks the US troops encountered in North Africa.

And if you see back once more, almost every standard tank here has been heavy influenced by the Renault FT-17 as it was the first "modern tank" which featured one main gun in a turret and a relatively small crew (compared to the 7, 8, 10 people who controlled a Mark IV or an A7V for example).

Tank development has always been a "let's see what the other countries have and how we can make our tank better", just as with aircraft development, naval development etc.

This is not art, it's highly pragmatic. When you develop a vehicle and your design is not influenced by the enemy that you are facing, you are really doing it wrong.

 



Ninjasaky #31 Posted 11 January 2019 - 12:18 PM

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View PostM5A1, on 11 January 2019 - 08:23 AM, said:

Spoiler

 

 

I already had known this, but thanks for the input nevertheless.

 

But of course. That's why Yugoslavian made tanks had a very versatile answer to their counterparts, across all their tank models. Keep in mind that Yugoslavia was building its tanks against both the German and the Soviet tanks while staying neutral but also trading with most of them, especially with the USSR, although Yugoslavia was completely independent, especially since the Yugoslavia-Soviet split in 1948. Thus they combined, improved assembled and incorporated tank parts with their own parts. Just like other minor tank developing nations besides Germany, USSR and the USA which are the major tank developing countries that had most of their tank models schemes and blueprints made without the direct help of other nations.

 

All of this I already wrote previously but  as it seems you weren't paying attention.

Please do keep in mind that this is a Yugoslav tech tree thread and that the proposal supporters don't focus on the "who did what in the world" things since our mindsets don't think like that. Yugoslavian military industry was always a defense industry at heart and so did their people and creators/developers think at heart, without neither comments or critics towards other nation's tank industry and development.

 



M5A1 #32 Posted 11 January 2019 - 12:44 PM

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Well I have to be fair and say that your techtree proposal is a huge step forward in this thread.

The thing I find most interesting is the proposed arty line as we waited a long time since the last artyline was introduced. What bothers me is that most of these vehicles, especially the toptiers, would fit much better into an already existing techtree.

 

With the other tanks, I still think they would play too much like the "original vehicles" (H35, T-55 etc.) and would not bring any new aspects to the game. There would be little to no reason to grind these tanks if you are not from the former Yugoslavia. You could just grind the russian mediums for example, with many premiums (crewtrainers) already available or in garage. 

If you look at the last two nations to be introduced, Italy and Poland, you have to notice that they really bought some unique vehicles to the game: Polish heavy/medium hybrids with high alpha for example or the italian Autoloader. Also the Italian midtiers are unique when you consider the very bouncy front armor etc.

 

I still don't see how the techtree you proposed would put something "new" and unique into the game to make the new tree attractive to grind for all players.



Jigabachi #33 Posted 12 January 2019 - 01:36 PM

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View PostM5A1, on 11 January 2019 - 12:44 PM, said:

I still don't see how the techtree you proposed would put something "new" and unique into the game to make the new tree attractive to grind for all players.

It wouldn't.

There are a couple of borderline unique tanks, but that still doesn't make a complete tree. WG should take another look at the "combined tree" idea again. That way we could get some really nice and unique tanks together without flooding the game with more boring copies.



Ninjasaky #34 Posted 12 January 2019 - 02:16 PM

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View PostJigabachi, on 12 January 2019 - 01:36 PM, said:

It wouldn't.

There are a couple of borderline unique tanks, but that still doesn't make a complete tree. WG should take another look at the "combined tree" idea again. That way we could get some really nice and unique tanks together without flooding the game with more boring copies.

 

1. If you don't like copies then don't play them. Play the original.

 

2. China tech tree started with a single tank so it's not a problem having even only 1 tank for the start of a nations tech tree as seen before.

 

More tanks the better, more to choose from.

 

Yugoslavian modified tanks are completely different from their originals. Unique in their own characteristics thus would be unique in their own gameplay.



Jigabachi #35 Posted 12 January 2019 - 02:37 PM

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View PostNinjasaky, on 12 January 2019 - 02:16 PM, said:

1. If you don't like copies then don't play them. Play the original.

They would still be in the game and in the matches we all play.

 

Block Quote

Yugoslavian modified tanks are completely different from their originals. Unique in their own characteristics thus would be unique in their own gameplay.

I spotted three or four tanks that would definitely be unique, but that's it.



Elefantas #36 Posted 12 January 2019 - 02:42 PM

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Last time i checked world atlas didn't noticed any country named Yugoslavia

Ninjasaky #37 Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:29 PM

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View PostElefantas, on 12 January 2019 - 02:42 PM, said:

Last time i checked world atlas didn't noticed any country named Yugoslavia

 

Stick to topic.

Elefantas #38 Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:49 PM

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Topic

make Yugoslavian or Serbian tech tree

 

Yugoslavia doesn't exist on world atlas

Serbia never "manufactured" tanks

manufactured only 3 armored vehicles and 1 spg

 

P.S.topic is completely non existent


Edited by Elefantas, 12 January 2019 - 05:50 PM.


M5A1 #39 Posted 12 January 2019 - 06:23 PM

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View PostElefantas, on 12 January 2019 - 05:49 PM, said:

Topic

make Yugoslavian or Serbian tech tree

 

Yugoslavia doesn't exist on world atlas

Serbia never "manufactured" tanks

manufactured only 3 armored vehicles and 1 spg

 

P.S.topic is completely non existent

 

Well the Soviet Union also does not exist on the world atlas. Neither do Czechoslovakia or the German Reich. WoT is a historical game so the countries that are in today's world atlas are irrelevant. Important are the countries that existed back then. Yugoslavia did exist back then, but this still didn't design their own tanks which makes them not suitable for an own tech tree.

 

I STILL think, that Yugoslavian emblems and inscriptions should be a thing, along with hungarian, romanian emblems etc.



Ninjasaky #40 Posted 12 January 2019 - 09:53 PM

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View PostElefantas, on 12 January 2019 - 05:49 PM, said:

Topic make Yugoslavian or Serbian tech tree

Yugoslavia doesn't exist on world atlas

Serbia never "manufactured" tanks

manufactured only 3 armored vehicles and 1 spg

Back to European history class. Chop chop.

20:55 Added after 1 minute

View PostM5A1, on 12 January 2019 - 06:23 PM, said:

Yugoslavia did exist back then, but this still didn't design their own tanks which makes them not suitable for an own tech tree.

 

M-84
M-84 VS.jpg
Serbian Army M-84A4 tank
Type Main battle tank
Place of origin Yugoslavia
Service history
In service 1985–present
Wars Persian Gulf War
Yugoslav Wars
Production history
Designer Military Technical Institute Belgrade
Designed 1979‒1983
Produced 1984‒1991 (Yugoslavia)
1991‒2003 (Croatia)
No. built ~650






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