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Noo_Noo #1 Posted 01 February 2018 - 03:00 PM

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Just wondering. 

 

In the real world what does HE do to a tank? 

 

Does it have a penetration vale like it does in game? 

 

From my limited knowledge HE was primarily used against soft targets and stuff like that. 



Asklepi0s #2 Posted 01 February 2018 - 03:03 PM

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Moved to off-topic.

Grand_Moff_Tano #3 Posted 01 February 2018 - 03:03 PM

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View PostAsklepi0s, on 01 February 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

Moved to off-topic.

 

Isn't this technically gameplay, not Offtopic?

Noo_Noo #4 Posted 01 February 2018 - 03:10 PM

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View PostChipmunk_of_Vengeance, on 01 February 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

 

Isn't this technically gameplay, not Offtopic?

 

Well that's where it was going to go yes but Lord Mod says otherwise. 

Edited by Jahrakajin, 01 February 2018 - 04:21 PM.


K_A #5 Posted 01 February 2018 - 04:03 PM

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In real world HE explodes on impact, so if the explosion is strong enough to rip open the armoured plate it hits it will do so, but if not it will result in either external damage to anything hanging off of the tank or in worst case some very minor spalling. I say light because HE wasn't meant to be shot at tanks or cause spalling, it was meant for destroying unarmoured or thinly armoured vehicles or positions. 

 

Now HESH on the other hand was designed specifically to cause spalling on the inside of a tank. A HESH-shell would squash the explosive head of the shell and then explode on the surface (hence the name, High-Explosive Squash Head), which would in worst case scenario be devastating to the crew. Spalls are small fragments that break off of the inside of the armour that go flying inside a tank that can do nasty things to the crew and any other inside parts of the tank. Here's a pic, nothing goes inside the tank but the inner walls themselves become projectiles:

 

 

 

 

 

 



Grand_Moff_Tano #6 Posted 01 February 2018 - 04:05 PM

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HESH was used to great effect on T-54, 55 and 62 tanks by the Israeli Defence Force during the Yom Kippur War, this was mainly down to the Ammo of these Soviet tanks being placed in a circle under the turret.

Jahrakajin #7 Posted 01 February 2018 - 04:21 PM

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Swoosh back to Gameplay.

Noo_Noo #8 Posted 01 February 2018 - 04:27 PM

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View PostK_A, on 01 February 2018 - 04:03 PM, said:

In real world HE explodes on impact, so if the explosion is strong enough to rip open the armoured plate it hits it will do so, but if not it will result in either external damage to anything hanging off of the tank or in worst case some very minor spalling. I say light because HE wasn't meant to be shot at tanks or cause spalling, it was meant for destroying unarmoured or thinly armoured vehicles or positions. 

 

Now HESH on the other hand was designed specifically to cause spalling on the inside of a tank. A HESH-shell would squash the explosive head of the shell and then explode on the surface (hence the name, High-Explosive Squash Head), which would in worst case scenario be devastating to the crew. Spalls are small fragments that break off of the inside of the armour that go flying inside a tank that can do nasty things to the crew and any other inside parts of the tank. Here's a pic, nothing goes inside the tank but the inner walls themselves become projectiles:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sensible yes. That's pretty what I thought on HE. Used to take out machine gun nests and soft stuff like that. 

 

Then it appears to be modeled reasonably well in game I guess. 



Long_Range_Sniper #9 Posted 01 February 2018 - 04:32 PM

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I've been inside armoured vehicles when HE has gone off nearby but never hit directly. Apart from scaring the brown stuff out of you, it made a total mess of a lot of gear strung up on the outside and is good for generating debates on the best way to GTFOOH.



NUKLEAR_SLUG #10 Posted 01 February 2018 - 04:41 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 01 February 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

 

 

I've been inside armoured vehicles when HE has gone off nearby but never hit directly. 

 

You wouldn't want to be. It doesn't have to penetrate to kill, just the pressure wave from the blast will do unpleasant things to internal organs.



Chuwt #11 Posted 01 February 2018 - 04:51 PM

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An awful lot depend on the relationship between armour and shell. A heavy HE shell will penetrate light armour and detonate in the process, which will be very bad news for the vechicle and crew...actually worse than a solid ap round, which can potentially go right through and out the other side without actually hitting anything vital on occasions. 
On the other hand, a light HE shell against heavy armour will do only cosmetic damage and rearange externally stowed kit.

However, as previous poster have said, ANY hit on a tank is not good for the morale of the crew...it is hard, especially for an inexperienced crew to tell exactly what the threat level is, and it is clear from reading accounts of actual armoured warfare that it was not that uncommon for crews to abandon fully functional tanks because of non penetrating hits.

 



cragarion #12 Posted 01 February 2018 - 05:16 PM

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View PostNoo_Noo, on 01 February 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

Just wondering. 

 

In the real world what does HE do to a tank? 

 

Does it have a penetration vale like it does in game? 

 

From my limited knowledge HE was primarily used against soft targets and stuff like that. 

 

What do you think the IED's are that are taking out all the armoured vehicles in Afghanistan and Iraq are ? throw enough HE at something and you can take anything out.

Dr_ownape #13 Posted 01 February 2018 - 05:18 PM

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TBH it depends on the fuze setting too. You can have SQ (super quick) or delay setting on your typical nose fuze. Clearly delay on HE against lightly armoured targets could result in internal explosions.

 

HESH also has approx half the muzzle velocity of AP due to needing the shell to mould to the tank armour rather than shattering or bouncing off (L56 (still used) fuze has a graze action on the fuze to ensure no "dings" either)

 

I'm not sure but i think us (UK) might be the only current nation to still use HESH (120mm). but normally they are useless as the tnak crew will step all over the driving band on the shell in storage and ruin the forward obturation (they rarely remember to put the driving band protrectors on).

 

I, for my sins, spent 24 years inspecting, servicing and generally involved in Land Munitions. 



Dr_ownape #14 Posted 01 February 2018 - 05:21 PM

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View Postcragarion, on 01 February 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

 

What do you think the IED's are that are taking out all the armoured vehicles in Afghanistan and Iraq are ? throw enough HE at something and you can take anything out.

 

Most current amoured vehicles tend to have slopes underbellies to ensure that a HE balst wave would be deflected and do little major damage. Clearly what they try and employ is a similar technique to our old "fruit" mine (it was called off-route mine but the slang sounds much better). They would exude the HE out of arty shells by heating it up then moulding them slightly concave to form a basic shaped charge effect and agaisnt the usual flat sides of vehicles it can be devasting

Xaneleon #15 Posted 01 February 2018 - 05:31 PM

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View PostJahrakajin, on 01 February 2018 - 03:21 PM, said:

Swoosh back to Gameplay.

 

Don't know why, but this made me laugh so hard

Long_Range_Sniper #16 Posted 01 February 2018 - 05:32 PM

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View PostDr_ownape, on 01 February 2018 - 04:21 PM, said:

 

Most current amoured vehicles tend to have slopes underbellies to ensure that a HE balst wave would be deflected and do little major damage. Clearly what they try and employ is a similar technique to our old "fruit" mine (it was called off-route mine but the slang sounds much better). They would exude the HE out of arty shells by heating it up then moulding them slightly concave to form a basic shaped charge effect and agaisnt the usual flat sides of vehicles it can be devasting

 

tin snips, pliers, paint tin + lid, PE4, det cord, Shrike, job done.



Hedgehog1963 #17 Posted 01 February 2018 - 05:35 PM

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Mods are fighting!:popcorn:

Dr_ownape #18 Posted 01 February 2018 - 05:38 PM

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View PostLong_Range_Sniper, on 01 February 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

 

tin snips, pliers, paint tin + lid, PE4, det cord, Shrike, job done.

 

missed Det and of course black nasty :hiding:

Edited by Dr_ownape, 01 February 2018 - 05:38 PM.


Long_Range_Sniper #19 Posted 01 February 2018 - 05:39 PM

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In game it's recognising the types of different ammo you have and how it can impact on your game.

 

I saw a WZ 111-5A do nothing but shoot HEAT again and again at the tracks of a Conqueror this week as predicted by the driver of it in chat!

 

Then again, I was YOLO'd in an IS-3 in my M46 Patton and the IS-3 fired nothing but HE. I think he got the memo, "Medium tank = no armour = HE". We traded for a few shots and he died wondering why HE didn't work that well.



Long_Range_Sniper #20 Posted 01 February 2018 - 05:40 PM

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View PostDr_ownape, on 01 February 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

 

missed Det and of course black nasty :hiding:

 

I missed signal cable as well.

 

Edit: and the guy stood behind me reading a TAM trying to work out loads of maths rubbish.


Edited by Long_Range_Sniper, 01 February 2018 - 05:49 PM.





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