Jump to content


Since when HEAT bounces off


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

Sergeant_Antaro_Chronus #1 Posted 01 February 2018 - 11:13 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 14216 battles
  • 629
  • [EL-G] EL-G
  • Member since:
    06-24-2013
Sooo since when WG decided that HEAT should bounce like AP and APCR?

RamRaid90 #2 Posted 01 February 2018 - 11:15 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 22415 battles
  • 6,677
  • [D0NG] D0NG
  • Member since:
    12-14-2014

Never, you're obviously just very bad at aiming.

 

Flat surface = HEAT will penetrate all day.

 

Any angled surface or spaced armour = HEAT will normally bounce/ zero damage crit in the case of tracks.

 

Some more context to your ridiculouspost would be helpful.


Edited by RamRaid90, 01 February 2018 - 11:16 PM.


Cannes76 #3 Posted 01 February 2018 - 11:18 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 68658 battles
  • 1,764
  • [TAKE] TAKE
  • Member since:
    04-16-2011
:child:

UrQuan #4 Posted 01 February 2018 - 11:20 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 20070 battles
  • 6,521
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-19-2011

HEAT has no overmatch mechanic, nor normalisation adjustment, but it does have an autobounce angle (set at 80 / 85 degrees)

Because HEAT has no overmatch mechanic nor normalisation adjustment, it has trouble with angled armor & is total crap with spaced armor (and tracks) + it will always bounce if you strike a target at 80 / 85 degrees or more, yes even that flimsy ELC you just shot with your awesome 150mm caliber HEAT shell if it hits at 80 / 85 degrees or more.

 

There have been no changes on this in recent years.


Edited by UrQuan, 03 February 2018 - 10:49 AM.


Sergeant_Antaro_Chronus #5 Posted 01 February 2018 - 11:26 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 14216 battles
  • 629
  • [EL-G] EL-G
  • Member since:
    06-24-2013

View PostUrQuan, on 02 February 2018 - 12:20 AM, said:

HEAT has no overmatch mechanic, nor normalisation adjustment, but it does have an autobounce angle (set at 80 degrees)

[..]

Yes I know all the characteristics of each type of shell, but does the HEAT bounce like AP/APCR and change course or you just get the message of "That one bounced", you see a small flash on the enemy and that's it...



UrQuan #6 Posted 01 February 2018 - 11:40 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 20070 battles
  • 6,521
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-19-2011

View PostSergeant_Antaro_Chronus, on 01 February 2018 - 11:26 PM, said:

Yes I know all the characteristics of each type of shell, but does the HEAT bounce like AP/APCR and change course or you just get the message of "That one bounced", you see a small flash on the enemy and that's it...

 

Correct, when it properly bounces (autobounce/ricochet angle), the shell continues on its new trajectory. But usually it just fails to penetrate (at shallow angles, even thin armor gets insane armor values without normalization)

Checked some replays of mine where I know I tanked HEAT shells, but all got absorbed by armor, no ricochets, so can't show an example (80 / 85 degrees is a rather narrow angle after all; so properly ricocheting HEAT shells are a rarity)


Edited by UrQuan, 03 February 2018 - 10:49 AM.


Sergeant_Antaro_Chronus #7 Posted 02 February 2018 - 12:08 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 14216 battles
  • 629
  • [EL-G] EL-G
  • Member since:
    06-24-2013

View PostUrQuan, on 02 February 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

 

Correct, when it properly bounces (autobounce/ricochet angle), the shell continues on its new trajectory. But usually it just fails to penetrate (at shallow angles, even thin armor gets insane armor values without normalization)

Checked some replays of mine where I know I tanked HEAT shells, but all got absorbed by armor, no ricochets, so can't show an example (80 degrees is a rather narrow angle after all; so properly ricocheting HEAT shells are a rarity)

 

So it is possible...

 

Has WG said that if you bounce a HEAT and it hits an other target, will it detonate on the next or nothing will happen? Like the fuse gets broken or something?



NUKLEAR_SLUG #8 Posted 02 February 2018 - 10:31 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 30520 battles
  • 2,552
  • Member since:
    06-13-2015

View PostUrQuan, on 01 February 2018 - 11:40 PM, said:

 

Correct, when it properly bounces (autobounce/ricochet angle), the shell continues on its new trajectory. But usually it just fails to penetrate (at shallow angles, even thin armor gets insane armor values without normalization)

Checked some replays of mine where I know I tanked HEAT shells, but all got absorbed by armor, no ricochets, so can't show an example (80 degrees is a rather narrow angle after all; so properly ricocheting HEAT shells are a rarity)

 

You sure? Thinking about it I don't ever recall seeing a HEAT round actually ricochet. They just flare and do no damage.



Somnorila #9 Posted 02 February 2018 - 11:34 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 55981 battles
  • 2,034
  • [4-YOU] 4-YOU
  • Member since:
    10-13-2012
From my understanding HEAT never bounces. But of course that doesn't mean will always penetrate.

Dava_117 #10 Posted 02 February 2018 - 12:49 PM

    Colonel

  • Player
  • 20240 battles
  • 3,649
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014

View PostSomnorila, on 02 February 2018 - 11:34 AM, said:

From my understanding HEAT never bounces. But of course that doesn't mean will always penetrate.

 

No, UrQuan is right. HEAT have an autobounce angle too. I remember 85°, but I'm not too sure...

UrQuan #11 Posted 02 February 2018 - 06:46 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 20070 battles
  • 6,521
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-19-2011

View PostDava_117, on 02 February 2018 - 12:49 PM, said:

 

No, UrQuan is right. HEAT have an autobounce angle too. I remember 85°, but I'm not too sure...

 

Aye thought it was 85 degrees too, but wiki says it's 80 degrees (and 85 degrees..., GG). For the correct value, experimenting will be needed, as it has been proven in the past that the wiki values are not always on point. Keep in mind, 90 degree 'impact' would be parallel, so to see a HEAT ricochet would be very rare (especially if it would be 85 degrees, that's hitting armor near parallel) 

 

View PostSergeant_Antaro_Chronus, on 02 February 2018 - 12:08 AM, said:

 

So it is possible...

 

Has WG said that if you bounce a HEAT and it hits an other target, will it detonate on the next or nothing will happen? Like the fuse gets broken or something?

 

From what I get, on a ricochet, the HEAT shell will continue travelling; if it hits another tank, the rules apply again for hitting stuff. The ricochet rules mention no exception for HEAT (only shell exempted from it is the HE shell, but that one doesn't bounce anyway)


Edited by UrQuan, 03 February 2018 - 10:40 AM.


hasnainrakha57 #12 Posted 02 February 2018 - 08:29 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 14666 battles
  • 661
  • [WFTTE] WFTTE
  • Member since:
    08-01-2013
Heat never ever bounces it is your mistake.

AliceUnchained #13 Posted 02 February 2018 - 08:40 PM

    General

  • Player
  • 38414 battles
  • 8,928
  • [322] 322
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View Posthasnainrakha57, on 02 February 2018 - 08:29 PM, said:

Heat never ever bounces it is your mistake.

 

Unless of course the impact angle is more than, let's say... 85º? A ricochet after all, really is just a fancy word for bounce!

KillingJoker #14 Posted 02 February 2018 - 09:41 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 35086 battles
  • 1,503
  • [-EXC-] -EXC-
  • Member since:
    09-07-2015

Heat never bounces? 

 

what about a if you shoot an IS-2 heat shell with 250mm pen into the front of a flat type 4 heavy? 



Dorander #15 Posted 02 February 2018 - 10:03 PM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 18669 battles
  • 3,226
  • Member since:
    05-07-2012

Playing my Maus I frequently "bounce" heatshells, though I am hard pressed to say whether they ricochet or fail to penetrate. What I can tell is that they don't behave like HE shells that explode and then do no damage. I'm not inclined to say they richochet either, fairly sure the on-screen HUD mentions explicitly ricochets or bounces, and I've seen HEAT give a "Bounce" message but don't recall any ricochets, as opposed to AP or APCR which I've seen give both a "ricochet" and a "bounce" message.

 

Though granted I might be remembering things wrong, usually I get 3-5 messages at once and all I care about is whether or not any of them reduced my hitpoints. I've also fired HEAT shells and got the message "We didn't penetrate their armour" which last I checked is a game message for a failed penetration mechanic, not a ricochet mechanic (which'd give the slightly ambiguous "That one bounced!" )


Edited by Dorander, 02 February 2018 - 10:03 PM.


HassenderZerhacker #16 Posted 03 February 2018 - 06:48 AM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 27771 battles
  • 2,467
  • [1DPG] 1DPG
  • Member since:
    09-09-2015

View PostUrQuan, on 01 February 2018 - 11:20 PM, said:

HEAT has no overmatch mechanic, nor normalisation adjustment, but it does have an autobounce angle (set at 80 degrees)

Because HEAT has no overmatch mechanic nor normalisation adjustment, it has trouble with angled armor & is total crap with spaced armor (and tracks) + it will always bounce if you strike a target at 80 degrees or more, yes even that flimsy ELC you just shot with your awesome 150mm caliber HEAT shell if it hits at 80 degrees or more.

 

There have been no changes on this in recent years.

 

sadly, HEAT autobounce is at 85 degrees... :-/

Archaean #17 Posted 03 February 2018 - 08:14 AM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 15663 battles
  • 1,243
  • [S4LT] S4LT
  • Member since:
    04-25-2015

View PostSergeant_Antaro_Chronus, on 01 February 2018 - 11:13 PM, said:

Sooo since when WG decided that HEAT should bounce like AP and APCR?

 

Nono, it's hacks and cheats. Don't worry, you did nothing wrong it's because your enemy player was cheating and hacking the game servers.

UrQuan #18 Posted 03 February 2018 - 10:37 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 20070 battles
  • 6,521
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-19-2011

View PostHassenderZerhacker, on 03 February 2018 - 06:48 AM, said:

 

sadly, HEAT autobounce is at 85 degrees... :-/

 

I know, this is what I suspect as well, but wiki says 80 degrees. edit: and 85 degrees, seriously? Edit again: angles got changed at some point, explaining the different numbers found.

Edit: Looked deeper Wiki is screwed up; at ricochet it mentions 85 degrees, at autobounce it mentions 80 degrees & because I'm darn sure it's 85 degrees. Most HEAT bounce angles say 85 degrees. Edit: This is indeed correct, 85 degrees is the correct angle, correcting it in above posts (80 degrees was the initial bounce angle when introduced)

Which also would explain why you hardly ever see HEAT bounce, 85 degrees means it's just 5 degrees between hitting armor near parallel & missing the armor (or striking it at 90 degrees, which would give it infinite armor due to no normalisation)

 

View PostKillingJoker, on 02 February 2018 - 09:41 PM, said:

Heat never bounces? 

 

what about a if you shoot an IS-2 heat shell with 250mm pen into the front of a flat type 4 heavy? 

 

 

No bounce; the armor tanked it. Due to the HEAT shell nature, even small angles can make it alot harder for HEAT shells to penetrate thick armor. This is also why HEAT usually has the excessive pen values compared to APCR.


Edited by UrQuan, 03 February 2018 - 10:52 AM.


AliceUnchained #19 Posted 03 February 2018 - 10:39 AM

    General

  • Player
  • 38414 battles
  • 8,928
  • [322] 322
  • Member since:
    10-18-2011

View PostKillingJoker, on 02 February 2018 - 09:41 PM, said:

Heat never bounces? 

 

what about a if you shoot an IS-2 heat shell with 250mm pen into the front of a flat type 4 heavy? 

 

It will fail to penetrate, which is not necessarily the same as bouncing. End result will be the same though.

 

View PostUrQuan, on 03 February 2018 - 10:37 AM, said:

I know, this is what I suspect as well, but wiki says 80 degrees. 

 

If memory serves, it was changed at some point. Either from 80º to 85º, or the other way around.



UrQuan #20 Posted 03 February 2018 - 10:47 AM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 20070 battles
  • 6,521
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-19-2011

View PostAliceUnchained, on 03 February 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

 

If memory serves, it was changed at some point. Either from 80º to 85º, or the other way around.

 

Indeed, been checking the wiki more throughout and this is indeed the case, 8.6 allowed HEAT to bounce for the first time, at 80 degrees, patch 8.9 changed it to 85 degrees & from patch 9.3 ricochet shells could hit other tanks as well & continue on travelling after the initial ricochet & bounce calculations.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users