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Buffing the Churchills.

Churchill I Churchill VII Black Prince U.K. techtree

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Thuis001 #1 Posted 03 February 2018 - 06:40 PM

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Hello everyone, with Heavy tanks being the special for this weekend I decided to return to this tech tree to try and get to the tier VIII.

 

And after grinding trough the Churchill I which was painless and actually quite fun (getting 2 aces in under an hour) I came to the Churchill VII, ow gawd this thing is just awfull. Anyway here is a proposal for buffs to this forgotten tech tree. (yeah, up to tier VIII this techtree is forgotten.)

 

Churchill I

This tank is quite good actually, I managed to do about 700-800 quite consistently and I don't think it needs any major buffs, if anything please buff the turret roof from an dramatic 20mm to atleast 30 perhaps even 40. Besides that this tank is fine I think.

 

Churchill VII

This thing is just awfull, not kidding this thing is bad at all the tree major options for tanks. It is slow (20km/h, wth WG) has no armor, (152.4mm is just not working cuss EVERYONE spams gold at this tank) and it has a medium tank gun. (140d/148p, this thing has no bussiness on a heavy at tier VI)

The armor could be fine if you were to stop the gold spam (most of the time the entire hit log is yellow) and buff the turret roof (once again 20mm is just not enough, ever.) buff that to 40 or 50 and it is fine.

Speed: Buff this tank to around 30km/h, yes that is a big jump and not historical accurate but to be fair this game left that road LONG ago. 25km/h bare minimum. This thing is slower than an O-I while also being worse in almost EVERY other aspect. You are just driving behind your team and are just plain-out too slow, especially for the mediocre at best armor that it packs.

Gun: please give it the 17pdr that you get currently on the Black Prince with a better DPM, it already has the lowest alpha of any tier VI heavy at the moment so DPM wouldn't be bad this would also deal with the fairly poor penetration that it has. 

All in all, it has gotten powercreeped extremely and needs a serious buff on essentially every stat.

 

Black Prince:

After the horror that the Churchill VII you arrive in this thing, think things get better? Think again! You have the same hull that was barely apropriate on tier VI on a tier VII heavy, you are still slow and have a medium tank gun...

Armor: give this thing better armor, srsly... this thing should just get a buff to it's frontal armor, but not by much. Make it around 170 or 160 and it will be fine.

Mobility: once again buff it to around 30km/h, this thing is currently slower than the O-Ni, which packs better armor and has a better gun.

Gun: Give this thing a 32pdr or a 20pdr with between 190 and 200 pen and a decent DPM. A 17pdr on a tier VII heavy that is slow as hell aswell as useless DPM and the worst pen of any heavy (171mm) is just sad.

 

If you give these tanks these buffs (or something like this) then perhaps these tanks might become a bit more competetive as they are currently at 47.90% winrate at tier V, a 47,67% winrate at tier VI and a 48.09% winrate at tier VII which is just sad and also kinda explains how bad they are.

Let me hear if you like this changes or have better ones yourself.



Mimos_A #2 Posted 03 February 2018 - 07:14 PM

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I didn't mind the Churchill VII much, it's alright, it's annoying that you often don't get to get in position before a game is decided, but other than that, it's okay-ish.

 

The Black Prince however is a total joke when it comes to balancing. You have the worst penetration of ANY tier 7 heavy, You have pathetic alpha, but hey, at least you might be able to out DPM stuff right? Oh no, wait, you can't, because you've got thrash dpm and low pen so you can't even count on your shots pen. Combined with the fact that you're too slow to actually react to anything happening you just have to hope that you're top tier and no IS or Tiger I shows up wherever you decided to go.



Aikl #3 Posted 03 February 2018 - 07:18 PM

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With the current state of the T8-10 British HTs, buffs to the lower tiers are unlikely at best. Gotta work for your invulnerable-hulldown/DPM abominations. Heck, look at the new Frenchie HTs - you get a cheesy stinker at both T7 and T8 - because the T5/6 are allright/good and the higher tiers are.. well, wildly unpopular, but at least good on paper (on which tanks can actually flank other tanks).

Wayward_Current #4 Posted 03 February 2018 - 07:20 PM

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To OP:

 

Churchill tanks are deliberately neglected in order for  free XP to be used to skip them.

 

 

Church I i give it a go grind, but VII and Black prince I recommend spend 5000 gold (during 35 : 1 action)

and free-xp jump over them to Caernarvon.


 Tier VIII Caernarvon is now buffed and already solid HT,starting a line of powerfull British snipers(Conqueror) so skip Churchill VII and BP if you can, it will save your nerves and prevent your statistics plummetting, I am still recovering from Churchill mud I stuck into once.


Edited by Wayward_Current, 03 February 2018 - 07:27 PM.


bitslice #5 Posted 03 February 2018 - 07:28 PM

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I think this is the reason you very rarely see British tanks in game, they are just awful.

 

I'm pretty sure I can count the number of times I've encountered a Black Prince on one hand.



Grand_Moff_Tano #6 Posted 03 February 2018 - 07:30 PM

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I do agree, the Churchills are at best quiet underpowered in regards to where their guns are concerned when compared to their speed. Personally I'd give the BP a Centurion turret with the 20-Pounder gun, that would at least make it competitive but would make it unhistorical, besides that I haven't actually looked at the turret rings so an A41 turret maybe too large.

Edited by Chipmunk_of_Vengeance, 03 February 2018 - 07:31 PM.


CrniVrag #7 Posted 03 February 2018 - 07:39 PM

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To me BP was a huge upgrade from the Churchills, yes the gun was kinda meh, but at the time there were no superheavy japs around and it did quite well. I managed to research Caernavorn in little under 100 battles with a 61% win rate, 1,6k avg damage and over 1k avg damage blocked per battle. I'll keep the BP in good memory :)

Mimos_A #8 Posted 03 February 2018 - 07:45 PM

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View PostAikl, on 03 February 2018 - 07:18 PM, said:

With the current state of the T8-10 British HTs, buffs to the lower tiers are unlikely at best. Gotta work for your invulnerable-hulldown/DPM abominations. Heck, look at the new Frenchie HTs - you get a cheesy stinker at both T7 and T8 - because the T5/6 are allright/good and the higher tiers are.. well, wildly unpopular, but at least good on paper (on which tanks can actually flank other tanks).

 

I don't disagree with having to work for something good. Which is why I think the Churchill VII is fine, it's not really good, but hey, I can live with it. The Black Prince is just too pathetic at everything. Nobody gives a crap about taking your 150 alpha shots. Hell, most same tier mediums hit you back harder. And the DPM is so low and the penetration is so bad most tanks can just sit in front of you and straight up out-dpm you if they felt like it as well. There's having to grind your teeth and get over it and then there's just being an irrelevant sideshow in any match.


Edited by Mimos_A, 03 February 2018 - 07:49 PM.





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