Jump to content


Should Type 4 and 5 derp guns be removed?


  • Please log in to reply
67 replies to this topic

Poll: Derp (173 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Should derps of type 4/5 be removed?

  1. Yes!!! (102 votes [58.96%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 58.96%

  2. No (71 votes [41.04%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 41.04%

Vote Hide poll

Toni112007 #1 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:05 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 9769 battles
  • 424
  • Member since:
    11-18-2013
So, should type 4/5 heavy derp guns be removed from the game? Imho they are broken and need to be gone.

Dava_117 #2 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:21 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 18506 battles
  • 2,724
  • [B-BAS] B-BAS
  • Member since:
    12-17-2014
The forum answer is quite predictable, but I doubt WG will act consequently... :trollface:

Bucifel #3 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:30 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 29511 battles
  • 1,373
  • [JDUN] JDUN
  • Member since:
    03-18-2013

not necessary removed but BALANCED that fking P2W ammo and armors !

thats all

 

theres no problem anymore if you dont just press 2 and pay more for more damage !

and no problem anymore if those disgusting tankgs get some proper WEAKPOINTS !



Lord_Edge #4 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:46 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 5951 battles
  • 820
  • Member since:
    11-26-2016
Great idea, while we're at it let's remove all the autoloaders, and normalise all guns to have the same DPM/alpha/pen, then we can make sure all tanks have the same armour profile/thickness, and the same speed/mobility, and give them all the same HP, then we can rename the game Quake and be done with it >.>

lord_chipmonk #5 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:49 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 33206 battles
  • 10,202
  • [-HOW-] -HOW-
  • Member since:
    12-23-2012

View PostLord_Edge, on 06 February 2018 - 03:46 PM, said:

Great idea, while we're at it let's remove all the autoloaders, and normalise all guns to have the same DPM/alpha/pen, then we can make sure all tanks have the same armour profile/thickness, and the same speed/mobility, and give them all the same HP, then we can rename the game Quake and be done with it >.>

 

You don't see any problem with guns where the premium ammo is flat out better with no downsides compared with the regular ammo and you don't even need to aim at tier 10?

Kurat666 #6 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:53 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 28967 battles
  • 265
  • [BB4] BB4
  • Member since:
    12-27-2011

View Postlord_chipmonk, on 06 February 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

 

You don't see any problem with guns where the premium ammo is flat out better with no downsides compared with the regular ammo and you don't even need to aim at tier 10?

 

He is the target audience for this tank. do not expect him to see. How do I know? Look at his reaction:popcorn:

leggasiini #7 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:56 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 12302 battles
  • 6,069
  • [-GLO-] -GLO-
  • Member since:
    12-01-2012
Yes, but the original 14cm gun needs to get buffed in return.

Bucifel #8 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:56 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 29511 battles
  • 1,373
  • [JDUN] JDUN
  • Member since:
    03-18-2013

View Postlord_chipmonk, on 06 February 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

 

You don't see any problem with guns where the premium ammo is flat out better with no downsides compared with the regular ammo and you don't even need to aim at tier 10?

 

exist a gun in this game where p2w ammo is different? i mean not flat out better and with downsides??

i think only 1 or 2 exceptions...an rests..ALL but ALL have or better penetration without donwsides or better damage without downsides of course...:facepalm:

great balance !

in that way all guns should be removed...

so the problem is not on gun...is on ammo


Edited by Bucifel, 06 February 2018 - 03:58 PM.


teh_policer #9 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:58 PM

    Private

  • Player
  • 15216 battles
  • 10
  • [BG-UF] BG-UF
  • Member since:
    10-01-2014
Last night i was sidescraping with IS-4 and then some red player just fired at me with type 4 derp (normal ammo). 650 dmg. In this situation the damage must be no more then 200... I understand the HE mechanics but pls..

lord_chipmonk #10 Posted 06 February 2018 - 03:58 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 33206 battles
  • 10,202
  • [-HOW-] -HOW-
  • Member since:
    12-23-2012

View Postleggasiini, on 06 February 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

Yes, but the original 14cm gun needs to get buffed in return.

 

Yep. 

 

View PostBucifel, on 06 February 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

exist a gun in this game where p2w ammo is different? i mean not flat out better and with downsides??

i think only 1 or 2 exceptions...an rests..ALL but ALL hare or better penetration without donwsides or better damage...:facepalm:

great balance !

in that way all guns should be removed...

so the problem is not on gun...is on ammo

 

Most premium rounds have at least a small downside. Don't get me wrong, I don't like premium ammo as it currently is in the game, but the derp guns on these tanks are some of the most blatant examples. 



Lord_Edge #11 Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:02 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 5951 battles
  • 820
  • Member since:
    11-26-2016

View Postlord_chipmonk, on 06 February 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

You don't see any problem with guns where the premium ammo is flat out better with no downsides compared with the regular ammo and you don't even need to aim at tier 10?

If it existed I would, however that assessment ignores the facts that:

 

  1. That ammo costs 6400c a shell.
  2. You have to fire it if you're going to play those tanks as the base ammo has awful damage.
  3. You still have to aim unless at point blank range or your shot will miss the target and you'll have to wait 16-20 seconds to try again.
  4. You still have to aim even at point blank range because if you're hitting high armoured parts for 300-500 damage then you're going to be DPM'd down by your opponent (I.E an E100 fires at the same speed at a T5H and does 750 damage with autopen HEAT) so you need to make every hit count.

 

It is borderline hilarious how people always whine about these tanks more than any others despite the T4H being one of the worst T9 HTs, and autoloaders being far more scummy in battles.  It seems some people really want a game where all the tanks are the same and everything loses its coolness/uniqueness :(


Edited by Lord_Edge, 06 February 2018 - 04:06 PM.


Bucifel #12 Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:03 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 29511 battles
  • 1,373
  • [JDUN] JDUN
  • Member since:
    03-18-2013

View Postlord_chipmonk, on 06 February 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

 

Yep. 

 

 

Most premium rounds have at least a small downside. Don't get me wrong, I don't like premium ammo as it currently is in the game, but the derp guns on these tanks are some of the most blatant examples. 

 

if you talk about normalization, pen loss over distance and velocity...thats not the case.

those are differences between shells type not difference between standard and premium.

 

you can see this better on tanks wich have same ammo type on standard and prem too.:

T54LT - APCR

AMX M4s - AP

IKV 103 - HEAT

 

ALL of them perform just better pen because you pay more.

for others is even worse because in mostly cases those small differences are on premium shells advantage too...and anyway..are irrelevant compared to penetration p2w advantage

So another problem found...those small advantages wich are suposed to require tactical decisions are USELESS since all what you need is MORE PEN. And you get it...if you pay more.


Edited by Bucifel, 06 February 2018 - 04:07 PM.


Lord_Edge #13 Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:04 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 5951 battles
  • 820
  • Member since:
    11-26-2016

View PostKurat666, on 06 February 2018 - 03:53 PM, said:

He is the target audience for this tank. do not expect him to see. How do I know? Look at his reaction:popcorn:

I don't even like those tanks, I ground the T4H to complete the line and haven't touched it since.  I just like variety in my games,  I don't want to play a game where everything is the same and you never need to change your tactics on the fly to deal with different threats.



TheOneAboveAII #14 Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:07 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 13100 battles
  • 488
  • [S4LT] S4LT
  • Member since:
    07-14-2016

YES!!! YES!!! YES!!! Remove the derp guns...those things are just retarded...load prem HE...put the cursor on the enemy tank and click...boom...5-6-700 dmg...no need to aim no need to nothing...it's just so stupid.

 

View Postleggasiini, on 06 February 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

Yes, but the original 14cm gun needs to get buffed in return.

 

buff it...overbuff it...idc...but remove the stupid derp gun...from the entire line...tier 6 and up.
 

lord_chipmonk #15 Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:22 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 33206 battles
  • 10,202
  • [-HOW-] -HOW-
  • Member since:
    12-23-2012

View PostLord_Edge, on 06 February 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

If it existed I would, however that assessment ignores the facts that:

 

  1. That ammo costs 6400c a shell.
  2. You have to fire it if you're going to play those tanks as the base ammo has awful damage.
  3. You still have to aim unless at point blank range or your shot will miss the target and you'll have to wait 16-20 seconds to try again.
  4. You still have to aim even at point blank range because if you're hitting high armoured parts for 300-500 damage then you're going to be DPM'd down by your opponent (I.E an E100 fires at the same speed at a T5H and does 750 damage with autopen HEAT) so you need to make every hit count.

 

It is borderline hilarious how people always whine about these tanks more than any others despite the T4H being one of the worst T9 HTs, and autoloaders being far more scummy in battles.  It seems some people really want a game where all the tanks are the same and everything loses its coolness/uniqueness :(

 

1. With so many ways to earn credits, the increased shell cost of premium ammo is pretty irrelevant these days. 

2. Obviously it is a superior round to the regular HE, but that is kinda my point. 

3. All you do most of the time is aim for centre of mass. A derp gun (most of the time) doesn't require or benefit from weak spot knowledge so that is a whole aspect of the game mechanics you can just casually ignore. 

4. Yes, you want your shots to count, but if you're fighting against an E100 for example, aiming is exactly what you don't want to do. If you aim properly, you hit him for at least a hundred or two, he hits you for 750. Instead, don't aim properly then you hit him for 400-600 and he has a chance of missing/bouncing. That becomes a fight you might win.

 

The Type 4 being bad? That just doesn't stack up. According to VBAddict, it is 6/12 on win rate for tier 9 heavies and 17/46 across the whole tier. The numbers for the Type 5 are 5/17 and 9/56. 

 

View PostBucifel, on 06 February 2018 - 04:03 PM, said:

 

if you talk about normalization, pen loss over distance and velocity...thats not the case.

those are differences between shells type not difference between standard and premium.

 

you can see this better on tanks wich have same ammo type on standard and prem too.:

T54LT - APCR

AMX M4s - AP

IKV 103 - HEAT

 

ALL of them perform just better pen because you pay more.

for others is even worse because in mostly cases those small differences are on premium shells advantage too...and anyway..are irrelevant compared to penetration p2w advantage

So another problem found...those small advantages wich are suposed to require tactical decisions are USELESS since all what you need is MORE PEN. And you get it...if you pay more.

 

True, but I was referring to the ammo that is generally premium vs the ammo that is generally not premium. So, in most cases that becomes an APCR/HEAT vs AP comparison. 

 

View PostLord_Edge, on 06 February 2018 - 04:04 PM, said:

I don't even like those tanks, I ground the T4H to complete the line and haven't touched it since.  I just like variety in my games,  I don't want to play a game where everything is the same and you never need to change your tactics on the fly to deal with different threats.

 

I understand what you're saying w.r.t. variety, but you need balance too. Having heavily armoured tanks with a derp gun are not really variety. We have them in the same tech line from tier 6+. At tiers 9 and 10, I think we should have tanks that generally reward people who know the game mechanics. The Types don't do that. You point them straight at the enemy and derp them in the face with premium ammo. The Swedish TDs were the most recent tanks that added real variety to the game IMO. 



Coldspell #16 Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:23 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 18708 battles
  • 2,108
  • Member since:
    08-12-2013
I mean stock type 4 is basically a slower but better armoured E75 the derp cannon is overkill. Still remember my first game in it stock, took out 2 E100 in a brawl.

Honestly I think derp guns are bad for the game,  recently been platooning with a new player who is so confused every time a derp cannon obliterates his vehicle in 1 shot.

vasilinhorulezz #17 Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:40 PM

    Second Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 22780 battles
  • 1,093
  • Member since:
    09-26-2014
They should at least remove the BS premium round.

Gremlin182 #18 Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:54 PM

    Lieutenant General

  • Player
  • 46613 battles
  • 7,921
  • Member since:
    04-18-2012

They are both horrible tanks to play because they are far too situational.

I had some decent games in the Type 4 but none so far in the type 5.

 

Its a close quarters tank so open maps are a pain to play on even without Artillery you get taken out at long range.

Terrible accuracy bad aim time and slow rate of fire trying to close with another tier 10 heavy that's hull down showing part of its turret and is 300+ meters away means you can do little.

You will almost certainly get damaged in the time it takes to move out of cover even sidescraping aim at them fire a shot that will miss or do zero damage and then return to cover.

Been in some fantastic all tier 10 games where I was nothing but a pinata ending with maybe one kill as they close in on me at the end of a game.

 

Tier 10 derp as an option is fine as is a premium round that does an extra 300 damage as most of the time you damage modules and crew but little in hit points.

You have 75mm pen at tier 10 which means you almost never pen and the 14cm gun is little better.

Give both tanks a better second option in guns a medium to long range gun then you might have a decent tank.

The derp is only of use on city maps where you can shoot other tanks in the face without needing to aim.


Edited by Gremlin182, 06 February 2018 - 04:55 PM.


jimbobjammybob #19 Posted 06 February 2018 - 05:08 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 618 battles
  • 201
  • [TH1NK] TH1NK
  • Member since:
    12-28-2015
the gun does not bother me much but not being able to actually fight it does.

Toni112007 #20 Posted 06 February 2018 - 05:19 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 9769 battles
  • 424
  • Member since:
    11-18-2013

View PostGremlin182, on 06 February 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

They are both horrible tanks to play because they are far too situational.

I had some decent games in the Type 4 but none so far in the type 5.

 

Its a close quarters tank so open maps are a pain to play on even without Artillery you get taken out at long range.

Terrible accuracy bad aim time and slow rate of fire trying to close with another tier 10 heavy that's hull down showing part of its turret and is 300+ meters away means you can do little.

You will almost certainly get damaged in the time it takes to move out of cover even sidescraping aim at them fire a shot that will miss or do zero damage and then return to cover.

Been in some fantastic all tier 10 games where I was nothing but a pinata ending with maybe one kill as they close in on me at the end of a game.

 

Tier 10 derp as an option is fine as is a premium round that does an extra 300 damage as most of the time you damage modules and crew but little in hit points.

You have 75mm pen at tier 10 which means you almost never pen and the 14cm gun is little better.

Give both tanks a better second option in guns a medium to long range gun then you might have a decent tank.

The derp is only of use on city maps where you can shoot other tanks in the face without needing to aim.

 

Or you are just bad at this game?




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users