Jump to content


Getting tired of blatant power creep // Does WG actually care?

mechanics SPG balance opinion poll

  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

Poll: Does WG care? (144 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Do you think poor balance and blatant cash grabbing is ruining the game in a permanent manner?

  1. Yes (67 votes [46.53%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 46.53%

  2. No (21 votes [14.58%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.58%

  3. This has been out of hand for some time now. (56 votes [38.89%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 38.89%

Vote Hide poll

Gold_Rounds #1 Posted 08 February 2018 - 01:56 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 6447 battles
  • 3
  • [FUCC] FUCC
  • Member since:
    10-06-2012

So,

I've been playing World of Tanks through various accounts since 2013. I took a long break from the game and upon coming back and playing 200+ battles I am noticing one thing. There are always the same new(ish) vehicles, most of which are premium, dominating scoreboards and generally killing the fun by forcing the overuse of premium rounds and negating any skill involved in the game. I have to ask the question whether anyone else finds WG's treatment of their game to be quite pathetic? The vehicles being added are causing blatant power creep which I am confident is intentional and it is fundamentally ruining a game that I once loved. Also I found a thread where WG claimed that only 5% of all shells that are fired are premium. This statement disgusts me. It is a blatantly watered down statistic where they include all shells from low accuracy, low tier auto loaders in their BS numbers. The fact that they even used such a hopelessly twisted statistic proves to me that they are simply trying their hardest to encourage the use of said rounds and justify that the current overuse is a myth created by whiny players who can't play properly. I am sick of it. Does wargaming care at all? why are they so intent on making themselves look stupid with every new op tank added? and why are they so slow to nerf tanks that are op and buff tanks to compensate for the mindlessly stupid power creep that THEY themselves are forcing into the game. Half the tanks in the tech tree hurt to play and the main way to have fun is to use tanks that AREN'T EVEN ON THE DAMN TECH TREE (premiums). I have a list of hundreds of problems that wargaming have introduced recently but I just want to bring up one more thing; what mono cellular cretin looked at the broken, no skill artillery mechanics that were already in the game and said 'lets make it worse in every way'. By which I mean that in the same update they 1) removed one hit potential to artillery and 2) increased the rate of fire of artillery to a ridiculous extent. Instead of minimising the effect on your fun that arty has, their changes have only highlighted the problems with the class and WG's refusal to deal with it. 'Look its all good, you won't get one hit by SPG's anymore, happy? P.S you'll be stunned for a good 10+ seconds if you don't waste a med kit (づ。◕‿‿◕。)づ '. I am sorry but in a game where engagements can change in seconds, such a heavy handed and blindly applied mechanic is, there's no other words for it, ignorant and weak. 

 

So, here I am wondering, is anyone else getting a bit tired of the disaster of misery that this game is slowly becoming in the form of a question:

Do you think poor balance and blatant cash grabbing is ruining the game in a permanent manner?



dimethylcadmium #2 Posted 08 February 2018 - 02:02 AM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 6269 battles
  • 770
  • [WGL-A] WGL-A
  • Member since:
    11-24-2017

Block Quote

 Does WG actually care?

 

No, and they won't unless they start seeing player numbers and premium shop profits drop soon.

 


Edited by dimethylcadmium, 08 February 2018 - 02:12 AM.


TheFurst #3 Posted 08 February 2018 - 02:17 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 12722 battles
  • 162
  • [HD16] HD16
  • Member since:
    01-04-2015

One could assume that the direction of the game leads towards dumbing down since quite some time and that most of the added content and changes might favor those players which are rather "mediocre" or below. Since those are in the huge majority it would be the most efficient and logical approach to keep the business running (gently said).

 

I dont know if i could defend such an assumption, but its out there and kind of plausible.

 

However, when i joined the game in 2015 i knew ill get into an arcade shooter, which wont satisfy all my needs and expectations and be arcadish as hell, but offer at least some entertainment. And as ive learned to know WG during that time i do not have the impression that the company cares about critique like such as or forum posts at all.


Edited by TheFurst, 08 February 2018 - 02:22 AM.


Gold_Rounds #4 Posted 08 February 2018 - 02:24 AM

    Private

  • Player
  • 6447 battles
  • 3
  • [FUCC] FUCC
  • Member since:
    10-06-2012

View PostTheFurst, on 08 February 2018 - 01:17 AM, said:

One could assume that the direction of the game leads towards dumbing down since quite some time and that most of the added content and changes might favor those players which are rather "mediocre" or below. Since those are in the huge majority it would be the most efficient and logical approach to keep the business running (gently said).

 

I dont know if i could defend such an assumption, but its out there and kind of plausible.

 

However, when i joined the game in 2015 i knew ill get into an arcade shooter, which wont satisfy all my needs and expectations and be arcadish as hell, but offer at least some entertainment. And as ive learned to know WG during that time i do not have the impression that the company cares about critique like such as or forum posts at all.

 

Hey you mind if I quote you on that? I'm determined to raze this forum just to make a point (づ。◕‿‿◕。)づ

TheFurst #5 Posted 08 February 2018 - 02:29 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 12722 battles
  • 162
  • [HD16] HD16
  • Member since:
    01-04-2015

View PostGold_Rounds, on 08 February 2018 - 02:24 AM, said:

 

Hey you mind if I quote you on that? I'm determined to raze this forum just to make a point (づ。◕‿‿◕。)づ

 

Wel, I dont know if there is anything to quote from really. Like i said, its not that im convinced that its a conclusion of significance. There's no easy answers at all.

NoobySkooby #6 Posted 08 February 2018 - 04:02 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 13167 battles
  • 2,841
  • [TFMB] TFMB
  • Member since:
    09-23-2011
It is really pissing me off now that you pay for what appear to be good tanks in tier 8, only for them to be totally wiped out by tier nine or ten, the MM is a joke, one tier higher yes I could agree with that, but eights, against tens? Seems odd to destroy a good game, not even been playing a full year, but now very frustrated, you have level 8's and have to resort to playing lvl 5's.
Unless you permanently put the defender in the premium shop  without any nerfs, or actually sell a tier 9 or ten in the shop, then I see the game dying, not even the really experienced players are happy, but I doubt anyone at WG wll give a crap.
 

Hiisi #7 Posted 08 February 2018 - 05:12 AM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 14993 battles
  • 266
  • [-PJ-] -PJ-
  • Member since:
    03-21-2011

Losing hope for this game. Balance was starting to look in better direction, but this last patch... i mean wtf. All new vehicles are op as hell and Leopard 1 might be OP if buffed...

 

with this patch game lost a lot of diversitation. There are only few tanks per tier that are competitive. Rest are crap. 



xPraetoriaNx #8 Posted 08 February 2018 - 08:13 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 20345 battles
  • 304
  • [_HOD_] _HOD_
  • Member since:
    05-15-2011
I don't think premium vehicles are the problem. I mean, apart from the Defender, name one premium tank which is OP. Sure, lately premium tanks tend to be on par, or slightly better than normal ones, but non of them are OP. The Strv S1 is a borderline case, and many people tend to say that the Skorpion G is also OP, but that tank is basically a Rhm-B-WT with better mobility, but worse camo and bigger hull (bigger target), so...

No, the problem is that newly added "normal" tanks are always a bit stronger than the "previous generation". I mean, it's obvious, even if we're not looking at the 9.22 Soviet tanks. "Hey, we introduce French tanks, which use a magazine system, so they have the potential to kill someone during the period of getting shot once or twice only!" People yell OP. Then some time later (put WoT on hold for like 3 years so I'm not entirely familiar with the timeline) they introduced the autoloader US tanks, with better armor and DPM than the French ones. (Even in lower tiers. Took my AMX 13 75 out for a spin a few days ago - have it in my garage since years, but I rarely play it -, met with a T71 DA. I was like "whee, gatling gun battle", only to get my butt raped by it. I was like what the hell, then i checked the stats of the tanks. T71 DA has more bullets in it's magazine, and has higher alpha. Okay...) Then they introduced the Swedish heavies, with unpenetrable turrets.
Or look at tier 10 TDs. People were baffled by the 1050 alpha of the JgPzE100, the autoloader WtE100 or the Armor of the T110E TDs. Guess what? BRITISH TDs! Also, Foch 155! And the list goes on.

But, powercreep apart, I think WG has already proven their inability to balance stuff by displaying their unwillingness to get that friggin 390 alpha gun out of Tier VI... Or when they nerfed the ISU by taking the BL-10 alway from it, only to replace it with a gun with same friggin alpha, so it is still able to oneshot a lot of tanks just one tier below itself. (And yes, I know nowadays we have other vehicles capable of doing that aswell, but the two things I just menioned has been in the game since it's launch basically)

250swb #9 Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:24 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 22676 battles
  • 5,071
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-23-2015

View PostxPraetoriaNx, on 08 February 2018 - 07:13 AM, said:

But, powercreep apart, I think WG has already proven their inability to balance stuff by displaying their unwillingness to get that friggin 390 alpha gun out of Tier VI... Or when they nerfed the ISU by taking the BL-10 alway from it, only to replace it with a gun with same friggin alpha, so it is still able to oneshot a lot of tanks just one tier below itself. (And yes, I know nowadays we have other vehicles capable of doing that aswell, but the two things I just menioned has been in the game since it's launch basically)

 

Whether it has the BL-10 or not the ISU is still a niche tank, and so are the T110E's, and the Jagdpanzer, and variety and trying to discover a small advantage is what most people are looking for. If every tank was balanced for it's tier there would be little point in exploring other tech trees and no point at all in playing anything other than one tank per tier or class. Let's put it another way, do you not try to grind towards tanks you think will be better than other tanks?

 

The reason WOT keeps going is the slight imbalance new content creates, it's called evolution, survival of the fittest, something to aim for. Otherwise there is nothing good, nobody can win the game anyway, so what would be the point of playing if it wasn't shook up from time to time? The OP's post is yet another whine in denial that all would be well if everything was free and everything was balanced and there was no premium ammo. He thinks his opinion is shared by the rest of the player base, but he is in the minority because the rest of the player base whether good or bad players can both read human nature and they respond to their own human nature. They want the frisson of having an OP tank, they want to trash a unicum with premium ammo, they want to find a way to win, even if temporary. Take that away and balance everything and you take away the reason to play, poor 43%'er will never ever have a chance so they will all quit. 60%'ers will get bored with lack of new and novel content because all tanks are balanced, so they will quit. The game is dies when it loses challenges, from the challenge for a school kid to save enough pocket money for a new tank to grinding up a new tech tree in the hope of finding the slight advantage at the end of it.



Jigabachi #10 Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:32 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 17927 battles
  • 19,067
  • [T-D-U] T-D-U
  • Member since:
    08-12-2011
They don't care about negative feedback or criticism and only think twice when there is a huge shitstorm.
They do however care about positive feedback, like the one you gave them a while ago...

Edited by Jigabachi, 08 February 2018 - 09:33 AM.


arthurwellsley #11 Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:38 AM

    Lieutenant Сolonel

  • Player
  • 51775 battles
  • 3,026
  • [-B-C-] -B-C-
  • Member since:
    05-11-2011

OP wrong.

Recently released premium tanks;

CDA

Chinese td

T92 USA Light

Maubrecher 

ELC Even 90

All of these are one way or another not as good as the tier VIII tech tree equivalent. If anything WG seems to have learned from the Defender fiasco and reverted to the old SerB dictum that premium tanks will not be as good as elited tech tree equivalent. 

 

Powercreep with new tech tree tanks has been a marketing device for virtually as long as the game has been running. Maybe some of the more recent additions have been a bit more blatant ( Object 268 v4, Badger etc), but WG have history for doing it.



Homer_J #12 Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:39 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 28771 battles
  • 30,068
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010

I blame the whingey whiny playerbase.

 

If WG releases a balanced tank then all we see is complaints about it being meh or even UP.

 

So sort yourselves out, and stop being whiny little kids or you'll get more of the same.



DA_ZOHAN #13 Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:50 AM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 55244 battles
  • 1,579
  • [OZ77] OZ77
  • Member since:
    07-28-2013

Three things I don't get are the following:

1. IS-M.  212-240/390.  On a slow and slow traversing tank without reliable armor that has t10 MM.  What is this tank supposed to do vs. Anime tanks/Maus/705's/257/IS7/IS4/STI/E75/268v4/263/Liberte-AMX m4 54?

T32 has similar pen issues, but it brings a party trick in it's turret in that it at least cannot be damaged reliably or at all if hull down.

VK45A is quick enough to run.

110 stock at least has 250 HEAT ammo that has a chance to high roll pen wise and pen Type 4/5's.

The rest of the T8 tech tree tanks have at least 260'ish premium ammo pen that has a chance to pen the heavily armored tanks in their MM spread up to the Tiger 2's class leading 285 pen.

 

The IS-M?  A case of reverse power creep?  Or the simple FXP sink that each line must have?

 

2. French New HT line.  Horrible pen with the big guns.  Basically forcing players to use the 2 button in high tier games in order to have a chance to pen, or use the 50B gun that has a slow ROF.  The frontal armor is the only saving grace, but even that is readily negated by dabbing 2 twice.

 

3. Obj430 T9.  The WZ120, Type 61, Centurion 7/1, and AMX 30P say hi.  All high alpha guns in t9 meds that have better pen.

 

 

Kinda weird.  But.... 


Edited by DA_ZOHAN, 08 February 2018 - 09:51 AM.


ZlatanArKung #14 Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:53 AM

    Major General

  • Player
  • 1529 battles
  • 5,112
  • Member since:
    12-20-2014

View Post250swb, on 08 February 2018 - 09:24 AM, said:

 

Whether it has the BL-10 or not the ISU is still a niche tank, and so are the T110E's, and the Jagdpanzer, and variety and trying to discover a small advantage is what most people are looking for. If every tank was balanced for it's tier there would be little point in exploring other tech trees and no point at all in playing anything other than one tank per tier or class. Let's put it another way, do you not try to grind towards tanks you think will be better than other tanks?

 

The reason WOT keeps going is the slight imbalance new content creates, it's called evolution, survival of the fittest, something to aim for. Otherwise there is nothing good, nobody can win the game anyway, so what would be the point of playing if it wasn't shook up from time to time? The OP's post is yet another whine in denial that all would be well if everything was free and everything was balanced and there was no premium ammo. He thinks his opinion is shared by the rest of the player base, but he is in the minority because the rest of the player base whether good or bad players can both read human nature and they respond to their own human nature. They want the frisson of having an OP tank, they want to trash a unicum with premium ammo, they want to find a way to win, even if temporary. Take that away and balance everything and you take away the reason to play, poor 43%'er will never ever have a chance so they will all quit. 60%'ers will get bored with lack of new and novel content because all tanks are balanced, so they will quit. The game is dies when it loses challenges, from the challenge for a school kid to save enough pocket money for a new tank to grinding up a new tech tree in the hope of finding the slight advantage at the end of it.

A balanced tank doesn't mean it is equal as other same tiered and classed tanks in every stat.



Gavrilac #15 Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:59 AM

    Corporal

  • Player
  • 33142 battles
  • 117
  • Member since:
    04-05-2014

The game is well built. Otherwise it would not have had so many passionate players for years. Without broken tanks and the tornado till they are, somehow, nerfed/restrained ... it would be, maybe, boring for some of us. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to do it perfectly, and / or to satisfy everyone! Unfortunately, developers often make decisions that upset too many gamers. This is very important too! I hope managers will make the right decisions to keep the game attractive regardless of the inherent mistakes. If they succeed, we will all enjoy (except the permanent dissatisfied people), and if they do not ... we will adapt and we will find something else to do.

Till then... almost great job for managers

And, for some, gamers: try harder to be honest to yourself.


Edited by Gavrilac, 08 February 2018 - 10:01 AM.


Aikl #16 Posted 08 February 2018 - 10:02 AM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 25554 battles
  • 4,349
  • [-MM] -MM
  • Member since:
    04-13-2011

View PostTheFurst, on 08 February 2018 - 01:17 AM, said:

One could assume that the direction of the game leads towards dumbing down since quite some time and that most of the added content and changes might favor those players which are rather "mediocre" or below. Since those are in the huge majority it would be the most efficient and logical approach to keep the business running (gently said).

 

I dont know if i could defend such an assumption, but its out there and kind of plausible.

 

(...)

 

You can easily argue for it through in-game features and mechanics. RNG, matchmaking, 'corridor maps', camping-meta and weakspot removals are all pointing in the same direction. The problem is that making the game more 'casual' comes at the cost of features that more dedicated players deem vital. For the most part the 'tactical shooter' aspect. There's nothing really tactical about typical camper tactics, regardless of what kind of tank someone's driving, but that's the direction we're taking.



Cobra6 #17 Posted 08 February 2018 - 10:06 AM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
  • 16332 battles
  • 15,770
  • [RGT] RGT
  • Member since:
    09-17-2010

This deliberate powercreep might be good for Wargamings wallet for a year or two (which is what they are always most interested in) but very bad for Wargamings wallet in the long run (3+ years) because it's a slippery slope.

You have to keep making new tanks ever more powerful otherwise your audience will lose interest in them and grinding new lines.

When you go down this path you'll run out of options very soon.

 

However, if you properly balance your game for the long run so:

- Tanks which are not massively better than their peers (currently but also 2-3 years ago).

- Heavy armour having viable weakspots for same tier guns shooting standard ammo.

- No premium HE ammo that does more damage than regular HE (Pay to Win)

- No premium ammo that completely breaks armour balancing (You can not balance armour to both 230mm pen and 330mm pen at the same time, it's impossible).

- Make tanks interesting because of certain features they have, not because they are blatantly better than the others at  pretty much all.

- Don't artificially handicap classes like light tanks to prevent them from engaging enemies at longer ranges successfully (protecting less bad players that drive in the open).

- Don't artificially protect bad players by over-armouring their tanks to keep them alive longer.

 

All of the above is the powercreep happening in this game, I've been here from pretty much the start and I've seen it all (starting) to happen. Wargaming is digging itself into a hole further and further because instead of focussing on making a sustainable long term profitable game they are focussed on short term gains (1-2 years) and patching problems with solutions that don't fix the root problem but only treat the symptoms:

 

Bad players in heavies getting killed too fast by arty and premium ammo:

1) Let's make all maps corridors.

2) Remove all viable long range engagement spots for TD's.

3) Remove foliage cover.

4) Introduce micro-ridges everywhere.

5) Nerf light tank combat capability.

6) Overbuff armour.

 

Luckily they finally took care of one of the root problems, arty, last year but the other root problem that is premium ammo is still not properly addressed and it's use is increasing due to the over-buffing of armour.

 

Bad players getting taken out by good players from range because they are not educated properly on how to tactically play this game:

1) Remove as much long range cover as possible.

2) Make key locations on the map completely unviable to be engaged from range.

3) Experiment with increased penetration drop-off on the Sandbox server but only for standard ammo (which is not the problem) but not premium ammo (which is a problem).

4) Start handicapping highly skill based classes like light tanks with higher penetration drop-off over range and giving them KV-2 levels of accuracy on tier 10.

5) After community outcry that this is a bad idea, slowly start over-buffing armour for all heavily armoured vehicles on the live server to effectively reach the same situation even though the community made clear they do not want that.

 

Players are no longer buying enough premium tanks because we've over-saturated the game with premium tanks and they are missing uniqueness in too short a time:

- Make new premium tanks as strong as their peers. (M41 90 GF / IS3A etc.)

- Make new premium tanks better than their peers. (Skorpion G etc.)

- Make new premium tanks completely broken/OP to tempt people into buying them. (Defender, OPatriot, Mle49 etc.)

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 08 February 2018 - 10:28 AM.


unhappy_bunny #18 Posted 08 February 2018 - 10:30 AM

    Major

  • Player
  • 18161 battles
  • 2,690
  • [-OC-] -OC-
  • Member since:
    08-01-2012

 

Do you think poor balance and blatant cash grabbing is ruining the game in a permanent manner?

Yes there is poor balance in some areas, mainly from previous release, Defender was a mistake, and MM still isnt perfect. 

 

No. I do not think there is blatant cash grabbing. WG provide items for purchase, but it is the players who make the decision to buy. Players need to ask themselves why they want to spend money. Is it because they are greedy for instant success in the game?

 



Gboor #19 Posted 08 February 2018 - 10:41 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 18952 battles
  • 456
  • Member since:
    11-09-2014

View PostCobra6, on 08 February 2018 - 10:06 AM, said:

 

Players are no longer buying enough premium tanks because we've over-saturated the game with premium tanks and they are missing uniqueness in too short a time:

- Make new premium tanks as strong as their peers. (M41 90 GF / IS3A etc.)

- Make new premium tanks better than their peers. (Skorpion G etc.)

- Make new premium tanks completely broken/OP to tempt people into buying them. (Defender, OPatriot, Mle49 etc.)

 

Cobra 6


I woulld agree with most except this part
m41 90 is actually better, is3a is worse
- Skorpion i would say is as strong as german td line, it just trades camo for mobility, but soft stats are quite bad
-Mle 49 is also not broken, its avarage at most, but have to admit for sh at tier 8 my m41 90 defender and patriot are must haves


Edited by Gboor, 08 February 2018 - 10:41 AM.


xPraetoriaNx #20 Posted 08 February 2018 - 10:50 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 20345 battles
  • 304
  • [_HOD_] _HOD_
  • Member since:
    05-15-2011
I see the "logic" in the "new kid being cooler than the old(er) ones", but if it adds layers and layers upon eachother, after a time the "old kids" will be unplayable. Like, back when I was playing it (4-5 years ago), the T32 was one of the most balanced experiences I had, and I loved it because of this (had quite decent stats with it, too). Nowadays the tank only gets mentioned if someone wants to bring up an example of being UP.

Or, look at the Type59. For a loooong time it was feared, because it was borderline OP (I never considered it OP because it had a lot of weaknesses, especially the weak and obviously placed ammorack). Nowadays? WG gave PMM to it, it has been buffed atleast twice, and it's still a shadow of it's former self, because 181mm pen is barely enough in tier 8-9.





Also tagged with mechanics, SPG, balance, opinion, poll

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users