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The only problem with the skorpion G

Skorpion G Premium Problem Weight Calculation

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totodestructeur400 #1 Posted 09 February 2018 - 06:52 PM

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Hello fellow tankers,  

I now have a little more than 700 battles with my own Skorpion G and i'm bothered with something. This tank is basically a big cardboard box powered by 650 horsepower, but it feels heavy and slow and the acceleration is not that good if you look closely at it. 
So i've done a bit of calculation and here's the result :

The weight of the skorpion is 38,23 tons and the tank is based on a panther chassis. The full panther is  45,25 tons. 


Let's strip those two of, shall we ? 

The motor of the skorpion weights 850 Kg and the motor of the panther 1200 Kg 

The canon of the skorpion Weights 3000 Kg, the canon of the panther 2100 Kg

The skorpion as basically no turret, but lets say it weights 2000 Kg, the turret of the Panther weights 7745 Kg

Let's say the tracks are counted as the chassis Weight as well as the radio and make some calculation ! (shall we ?)

 

the remaining weight of the skorpion is 38 230 Kg - 850 - 3000 - 2000 = 32 380 Kg

the remaining weight of the panther is 45 250 - 1200 - 2100 - 7745 = 34205 Kg

 

the armor of the skorpion 30 mm on the front, 16mm on the side and 20mm on the rear, the armor of the panther is 85 mm on the front, 50 on the sides and 40 on the rear, How the f*ck do you explain that there is only a 2 tons difference between those two chassis ? 

 



shane73tank #2 Posted 09 February 2018 - 07:00 PM

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Balance ? If it was more nimble it would be the old hellcat which was op as hell 

arthurwellsley #3 Posted 09 February 2018 - 07:37 PM

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View Posttotodestructeur400, on 09 February 2018 - 05:52 PM, said:

Hello fellow tankers,  

I now have a little more than 700 battles with my own Skorpion G and i'm bothered with something. This tank is basically a big cardboard box powered by 650 horsepower, but it feels heavy and slow and the acceleration is not that good if you look closely at it. 
So i've done a bit of calculation and here's the result :

The weight of the skorpion is 38,23 tons and the tank is based on a panther chassis. The full panther is  45,25 tons. 


Let's strip those two of, shall we ? 

The motor of the skorpion weights 850 Kg and the motor of the panther 1200 Kg 

The canon of the skorpion Weights 3000 Kg, the canon of the panther 2100 Kg

The skorpion as basically no turret, but lets say it weights 2000 Kg, the turret of the Panther weights 7745 Kg

Let's say the tracks are counted as the chassis Weight as well as the radio and make some calculation ! (shall we ?)

 

the remaining weight of the skorpion is 38 230 Kg - 850 - 3000 - 2000 = 32 380 Kg

the remaining weight of the panther is 45 250 - 1200 - 2100 - 7745 = 34205 Kg

 

the armor of the skorpion 30 mm on the front, 16mm on the side and 20mm on the rear, the armor of the panther is 85 mm on the front, 50 on the sides and 40 on the rear, How the f*ck do you explain that there is only a 2 tons difference between those two chassis ? 

 

 

It's a balance factor.

It is to ensure that the Skoprion G is good but not completely OP.

If the Skorpion G were too fast forward or backwards it would have the same issues as the pre-nerf Grille 15 or Hellcat, both of which were performing too well.



Search_Warrant #4 Posted 09 February 2018 - 07:40 PM

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I thought the problem was the BS gun on a BS 60kmh platform with a turret. but hey it might just be the weight right. kekeke.

MarcoStrapone #5 Posted 09 February 2018 - 07:45 PM

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just improve cammo and its perfect.

Aikl #6 Posted 09 February 2018 - 07:46 PM

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Sure. Let's make its weight 20t and nerf terrain resistance accordingly. Enter Skorpion G going 50kph uphill. That's the alternative (at least if my understanding of in-game mechanics is correct; terrain resistance governs mobility, but less so when going uphill).

 

As for the other feedback in this thread, the Skorpion is a "problem" because it's quite popular and a ton of maps allow people to sit outside the viewrange circle. Skorpion is a very good tank, but used as a tank (or rather gunboat) and not a device of area denial (that can also run away from light tanks) it has definitive drawbacks which arguably makes it "balanced". In other words, the issue remains that the Skorpion is very good at the current meta of low-risk/high-reward gameplay - and way more balanced for high-risk/high-reward gameplay.


Edited by Aikl, 09 February 2018 - 07:47 PM.


dimethylcadmium #7 Posted 09 February 2018 - 07:52 PM

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why is it always the *edit that are complaining about Defenders and Skorpions having weaknesses?

 

Skorp is OP as tits, you're just a *edit who doesn't know how to play fast turreted TD's.

 

 


Edited by Jbnn, 14 February 2018 - 09:27 AM.
This post has been edited by the moderation team due to inappropriate remarks.


totodestructeur400 #8 Posted 09 February 2018 - 10:36 PM

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The point is that it's not supposed to be faster because it is lighter, but to accelarate a bit more, since the camo rating is quite bad you are detected quite often and if the enemy team is a little bit more than a bunch of lemmings you're fucked. I don't care if WG has to decrease precision or reload time in fact, but i'm feeling the vehicule would be more fun to play and a bit more logical if it would be designed that way. I'm feeling kind of tcheated looking at that fat box having difficulties reaching over 46 Km/h

dimethylcadmium #9 Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:23 PM

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View Posttotodestructeur400, on 09 February 2018 - 10:36 PM, said:

The point is that it's not supposed to be faster because it is lighter, but to accelarate a bit more, since the camo rating is quite bad you are detected quite often and if the enemy team is a little bit more than a bunch of lemmings you're fucked. I don't care if WG has to decrease precision or reload time in fact, but i'm feeling the vehicule would be more fun to play and a bit more logical if it would be designed that way. I'm feeling kind of tcheated looking at that fat box having difficulties reaching over 46 Km/h

 

You can always go play Rhm.Borsig Waffentrager, you know? What, you don't want to? Why? Not OP enough?

Balc0ra #10 Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:44 PM

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Actually the Skorpion turret is weights 3150 Kg according to tank gg. So that's 6 tons on top of the hull.

 

View Posttotodestructeur400, on 09 February 2018 - 10:36 PM, said:

The point is that it's not supposed to be faster because it is lighter, but to accelarate a bit more, since the camo rating is quite bad you are detected quite often and if the enemy team is a little bit more than a bunch of lemmings you're fucked. I don't care if WG has to decrease precision or reload time in fact, but i'm feeling the vehicule would be more fun to play and a bit more logical if it would be designed that way. I'm feeling kind of tcheated looking at that fat box having difficulties reaching over 46 Km/h

 

Power to weight is a balance factor to. And it's adjusted to be as poor or good in relations to a tank that has no armor if need be, but weighs as much as one that has more armor. And it had more power to weight with that gun... on a TD with a turret. You can see how that would not work to well right? Bad camo aside. Hellcat was nerfed for a reason back in the day. So I suspect they did learn something from that tank when they made this. And if it did 50 or 55... It would be way to broken. Even if it had a bad power to weight.

 

As a tank with that gun, with speed and mobility mixed into to it? I suspect you did not play the Conway or the 4005 on CT when they did close to 60km did you? If you did you might see why it's not a good idea. And why power to weight is a balance factor that will be over adjusted vs armor at times.


Edited by Balc0ra, 09 February 2018 - 11:46 PM.


Simeon85 #11 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:26 AM

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You forget about the gun and shells, it has a 128mm, not a 75mm, with shells for that large calibre gun, all that adds a lot of weight. 

 

View Postdimethylcadmium, on 09 February 2018 - 07:52 PM, said:

 

Skorp is OP as tits, 

 

 

 

LEL Skorpion is not OP, it's paper and huge, the majority of players suck in it. It is pretty much bang on the reference on the line for most players, which is rare for a premium these days. 

 


Edited by Simeon85, 10 February 2018 - 12:28 AM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #12 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:36 AM

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The "only" problem with the Skorpion might be the shell velocity or the DPM but not the mobility in my opinion but overall i like it, actually i like it a lot :)

dimethylcadmium #13 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:44 AM

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View PostSimeon85, on 10 February 2018 - 12:26 AM, said:

You forget about the gun and shells, it has a 128mm, not a 75mm, with shells for that large calibre gun, all that adds a lot of weight. 

 

 

LEL Skorpion is not OP, it's paper and huge, the majority of players suck in it. It is pretty much bang on the reference on the line for most players, which is rare for a premium these days. 

 

 

has the borsig's 128mm gun - check

best accuracy in class at 0.3 - check

one of the best aim time in class at 2.1 - check

second best top speed in class at 60kmh - check

reverse speed 20kmh only worse than Swedish TD's - check

has a TURRET - check

can reliably snipe outside 445m - check

can ram light tanks - check

 

drawbacks??? average view range (doesnt matter with binocs), slow traverse speed (balancing factor), armor (balancing factor)

 

the camo is comparable to many medium tanks and is not terrible like everyone says. shoot behind a bush with a camo crew and you won't get spotted.

 

yeah, i'd say it's OP, especially when compared to other TD's. If it weren't, no one would buy it. Why is AMX 105 CDA not so popular? Because i'ts sh*t compared to Skorpion.



totodestructeur400 #14 Posted 10 February 2018 - 01:02 AM

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The point is not that i think the skorp should be buffed, but that it is a vehicule that feels weird when played anyway other than sitting in a bush and waiting to rain enemy's under shells. It's precise but not when moving, and not very manoeuvrable, so basically it's not in anyway comparable the an hellcat or the turreted english td's. It just look like them, but it lacks some flexibility. 

But you've all clearly pointed that it's slow for a reason, and i'm aware of it. It just make me a bit sad sometimes knowing that it could be a tank faster and more manoeuvrable but less deadly, wich would make it more prone to play it a bit more "high risk" rather than camping like almost all td's. That would make it a bit more different than RHM Börsig too.


EDIT:

I personally like it a lot, even if it's clearly not the premium i had the most fun with.

 

and to respond to the question of shells, i assume they are counted in the chassis weight, or the remaining weight to be more correct. 

the skorpion has 30 shells and the panther 81. even though a 128 mm is heavier, they have probably around the same weight of ammo being carried


Edited by totodestructeur400, 10 February 2018 - 01:09 AM.


spuriousmonkey #15 Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:42 AM

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View Posttotodestructeur400, on 09 February 2018 - 07:52 PM, said:

Hello fellow tankers,  

I now have a little more than 700 battles with my own Skorpion G and i'm bothered with something. This tank is basically a big cardboard box powered by 650 horsepower, but it feels heavy and slow and the acceleration is not that good if you look closely at it. 
So i've done a bit of calculation and here's the result :

The weight of the skorpion is 38,23 tons and the tank is based on a panther chassis. The full panther is  45,25 tons. 


Let's strip those two of, shall we ? 

The motor of the skorpion weights 850 Kg and the motor of the panther 1200 Kg 

The canon of the skorpion Weights 3000 Kg, the canon of the panther 2100 Kg

The skorpion as basically no turret, but lets say it weights 2000 Kg, the turret of the Panther weights 7745 Kg

Let's say the tracks are counted as the chassis Weight as well as the radio and make some calculation ! (shall we ?)

 

the remaining weight of the skorpion is 38 230 Kg - 850 - 3000 - 2000 = 32 380 Kg

the remaining weight of the panther is 45 250 - 1200 - 2100 - 7745 = 34205 Kg

 

the armor of the skorpion 30 mm on the front, 16mm on the side and 20mm on the rear, the armor of the panther is 85 mm on the front, 50 on the sides and 40 on the rear, How the f*ck do you explain that there is only a 2 tons difference between those two chassis ? 

 

 

In game, skorpions will pass my panther II. So I think it is ok.

clixor #16 Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:51 AM

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View Postdimethylcadmium, on 10 February 2018 - 12:44 AM, said:

 

yeah, i'd say it's OP, especially when compared to other TD's. If it weren't, no one would buy it. Why is AMX 105 CDA not so popular? Because i'ts sh*t compared to Skorpion.

 

Grinding the SU-101 and tier8 ikea i can only concur. If you really want to play a tier8 td (prem or not) than really there is no reason to play anything BUT a skorpion. Now, i do play the skorpion a lot myself as well. The fact i have about twice the dpg in the skorpion compared to the others says enough.



RamRaid90 #17 Posted 10 February 2018 - 10:42 AM

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Personally don't think it's OP.

 

If it is, I certainly haven't seen it. Mine sits at a 50% win rate as it simply cannot carry a game. Yes the gun is excellent, yes the turret and speed are helpful.

 

You get spotted from the moon, you are a huge target and any HE shell that lands in the same postcode will cause catastrophic damage.

 

As with any balanced tank. The plebs will be horribly bad, the joes will be joes, and the unicums will stomp on everyone.


Edited by RamRaid90, 10 February 2018 - 10:43 AM.


Gboor #18 Posted 10 February 2018 - 11:17 AM

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View Postdimethylcadmium, on 10 February 2018 - 12:44 AM, said:

 

has the borsig's 128mm gun - check

best accuracy in class at 0.3 - check

one of the best aim time in class at 2.1 - check

second best top speed in class at 60kmh - check

reverse speed 20kmh only worse than Swedish TD's - check

has a TURRET - check

can reliably snipe outside 445m - check

can ram light tanks - check

 

drawbacks??? average view range (doesnt matter with binocs), slow traverse speed (balancing factor), armor (balancing factor)

 

the camo is comparable to many medium tanks and is not terrible like everyone says. shoot behind a bush with a camo crew and you won't get spotted.

 

yeah, i'd say it's OP, especially when compared to other TD's. If it weren't, no one would buy it. Why is AMX 105 CDA not so popular? Because i'ts sh*t compared to Skorpion.

 

Now we have proof you dont undestand this tank, 2,1 aim time lol. You forgot about soft stats which are terrible so you never get close to good aim time, another thing is shell speed and its trace, shotting moving tank on distance is almost impossible because of it, so y, you will hit from 445 meters, but only in specific conditions. When you have to shoot with aiming on invisible wall on map you will shoot like 5 meters higher so its actually not possible from long distances. You will get spotted even from behind bush almost always when you dont stand outside 445m, most of bushed are to small for skorpion so you canoot hide spot dots
Skorpion is good but only in good players hands


You rerolled account, doesnt even have skorpion, but you think you know so much about this tank. Just meh. Waste of time

Edited by Gboor, 10 February 2018 - 11:21 AM.


Rati_Festa #19 Posted 10 February 2018 - 11:45 AM

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View PostGboor, on 10 February 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

 

Now we have proof you dont undestand this tank, 2,1 aim time lol. You forgot about soft stats which are terrible so you never get close to good aim time, another thing is shell speed and its trace, shotting moving tank on distance is almost impossible because of it, so y, you will hit from 445 meters, but only in specific conditions. When you have to shoot with aiming on invisible wall on map you will shoot like 5 meters higher so its actually not possible from long distances. You will get spotted even from behind bush almost always when you dont stand outside 445m, most of bushed are to small for skorpion so you canoot hide spot dots
Skorpion is good but only in good players hands


You rerolled account, doesnt even have skorpion, but you think you know so much about this tank. Just meh. Waste of time

Reroll or not he has a point. The skorpion is by far the best t8 td in game, the last thing it needs is a nerf. Its ability to reposition being its main asset imo


Edited by Rati_Festa, 10 February 2018 - 11:46 AM.


dimethylcadmium #20 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:00 PM

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View PostGboor, on 10 February 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

 

Now we have proof you dont undestand this tank, 2,1 aim time lol. You forgot about soft stats which are terrible so you never get close to good aim time, another thing is shell speed and its trace, shotting moving tank on distance is almost impossible because of it, so y, you will hit from 445 meters, but only in specific conditions. When you have to shoot with aiming on invisible wall on map you will shoot like 5 meters higher so its actually not possible from long distances. You will get spotted even from behind bush almost always when you dont stand outside 445m, most of bushed are to small for skorpion so you canoot hide spot dots
Skorpion is good but only in good players hands


You rerolled account, doesnt even have skorpion, but you think you know so much about this tank. Just meh. Waste of time

 

Oh i do understand this tank very well. I am an owner of one good TD, the WZ-120-1, which is good but still not as good as the Skorpion, and believe me, i played the Skorpion at my friends house.......it's better. I average 2400 DPG with the WZ, and i had a 2800 DPG session with my friends' Skorpion, just because it doesn't need to aim for 5 years like the WZ and because it has a TURRET. I cannot stress how this fact is important. You have the freedom of not having to move your tank while aiming. WZ has a narrow gun arc and every time you move your tank just an inch, you get KV-2 levels of bloom because it has 0.19/0.19/0.15 soft gun stats, in other words terrible.

Edited by dimethylcadmium, 10 February 2018 - 12:03 PM.





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