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The good and the bad and the ranked....

yes ranked sprouds Did you notice beer over wine?

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HundeWurst #1 Posted 09 February 2018 - 10:56 PM

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Hello my dear plebarians,

it is this time of the year - yet another ranked season is dawning. And even before the season has started I am already complaing :) So here we go.... AGAIN.

https://worldoftanks...ttles-season-1/ This is the link to the official changes for this season.

 

1. Before we start I would like to ask you a question: Are players who pay money for WG products equal to players who play for free, unwilling or unable to spend money on WGs WoT products?

My answer when it comes to ranked battles, they are not. A free2play player cannot use gold ammo at his free will, food and premium comsumables will ruin him in no time. Yet these things, when used, offer a noticable advantage. In the "environement of ultimate competetion" every advantage is supposed to be used to come out on top. Yet free2play players wont have access to such advantages.

The chances for everyone to compte are not equal. The free2play player will start with a distinct disadvantage, even more so when it comes to ranked battles. So in reality ranked is not a fair competetion.

 

2. Now to the actual changes: I stand by what I have said in my other topics, In short: Two VERY IMPORTANT factors any ranked system has to fullfill: A - The system itself cannot be allowed to influence the gameplay, or the global goal of the game and B - Skill rules supreme. Nothing else but the skill should influence the standing on the ladder. So did WGs changes achieve these goals?

 

So what is YOUR definition of"ranked battles"? What do you expect them to be?

For me? Well I expect to compete with every player playing this mode. Only skill should determine who comes out ahead, all other factors should be avoided at all costs. I expect to play against and with roughly equally skilled players in a ranked game mode.

Block Quote

 Climbing the ladder

To secure a place on the leaderboard, you need to earn at least 6 Rank Points, which means reaching Rank 6. Getting further isn’t as easy as it sounds. Just like it was before, you'll receive one Rank Point the first time you climb one rank. Once you reach Rank 15, it's time for your vehicles to do the work: every time your machine earns 5 chevrons, you get one extra point with 25 Bonds. And, starting from this season, you can check your position both in the game client and on our website.

 

Yet again... Wargaming does not want ranked battles to be actually about skill but time invested. The "grinding aspect" of this mode is yet again more that present. Grinding DOES NOT belong in a ranked mode! What is there to say? Two equally skilled players WILL NOT end up next to each other on the leader boards if one of these two has more time. THe guy with more time will have an advantage. That IS NOT ranked.

And now to the part which made me basically instantly giving up on the ranked battles:

Block Quote

 

To the victor go the spoils

Chevrons are still your way to advance up the Rank ladder, and we’ve reconsidered their distribution to encourage the most aspiring tankers.

 

At the end of a battle, chevrons will be given to the ten best players of the winning team and to just one exceptional tanker on the losing side. However, if you reach the Top 3 in a winning team, you will get an extra chevron. If you end up in the bottom 10 of a defeated team, you will lose one chevron. Ending up in any of the remaining positions will not change the amount of your chevrons, so you can exit the battle safely and have another go in the next fight. This will allow the best players to advance in Rank faster, providing an extra incentive to win.

 So yeah... The gameplay wont be any fun yet again... A system which is actively rewarding at least some players of the losing side is a system designed to fail. Such a system will NEVER EVER work. This influences the gameplay. Instead of chasing the one goal, winning the battle for and with the team, there is an even strong incentive to play in a destructive way.

Why is the losing side rewarded for losing, and maybe even more important, why is not every player of the winning side rewaded?

We have seen how this influences the gameplay in the possibly worst way anyone can ever imagine... Yet it is still there.

 

So here is a radical idea: You want to have an even ground zero for everyone? Well then remove the entire economy level from ranked battles: The player neither earns credits, exp and everything else, nor does he lose anything. Everyone can play exactly how he likes to, might that be full premium consumables and gold rounds only.

Then add a proper ladder system, with proper up and downranking. Get rid of the grind aspect...

And ofc reward every winner for winning, even though the particular player might not have had any positive impact on the outcome, also punish every player of the losing side. ONLY AND ONLY that way you can ensure that every single player does his personal best to ensure a victory.

 

PS: Dont get me even started with the pisspoor tier 10 balance. I expect nothing less than hordes of Obj 268V4, 907, 430U, SQ roaming the fields of battle. Such diversity many many weows.....

 

 


Edited by WunderWurst, 10 February 2018 - 11:26 AM.


MaxxyNL #2 Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:52 PM

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Nobody is forced to play Ranked Battles. Don't like it, don't play it. :harp:

BonjiOrongji #3 Posted 09 February 2018 - 11:56 PM

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i would almost agree with everything you say ... but here is the thing: it is exactly like wargaming wants it to be

Edited by BonjiOrongji, 10 February 2018 - 05:23 AM.


Dexatroph #4 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:10 AM

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Hi Wunderwurst,

 

it's good start to check what everyone expect "Ranked battles" to be  and what "Ranked battles" are from our perspective. Another important question is what Ranked battles can be in this game and game environment, as there are some limits.

From my perspective this game can't provide "Ranked battles" in the way you would like to see it implemented as it has to work in the given parameters.

 

Just to name some reasons why skill can never be the most important part in that game. You play solo with 29 random players, with different tanks +tank classes  what have to work together and the be loved  RNG is involved. It will just fail when you try to implement an imposed Skill-MM / Ranked Battle. I think the 2nd season was just a good showcase what will happen when you go this way where the regular / bad players have to stay in the lower ranks and how it affected the good players as well.

 

I don't have a problem when there is also a time invested factor is involved. Really good players will reach the high ranks in less time than the regular player. Sounds not bad. I don't see any problems when a regular player might overake you in the ranking when he made 5 time as much battles than you.

 

The 3rd season looks promising to be fun again. But you have to accept that WoT can notprovide a real ranked battle mode, not because they are incompetent, but because the environment does not provide this option.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Dexatroph, 10 February 2018 - 12:11 AM.


clixor #5 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:10 AM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 09 February 2018 - 10:56 PM, said:

Yet again... Wargaming does not want ranked battles to be actually about skill but time invested. The "grinding aspect" of this mode is yet again more that present. Grinding DOES NOT belong in a ranked mode! What is there to say? Two equally skilled players WILL NOT end up next to each other on the leader boards if one of these two has more time. THe guy with more time will have an advantage. That IS NOT ranked.

And now to the part which made me basically instantly giving up on the ranked battles:

 

I agree with the gold/food part. For some players it's just not sustainable to play RB a lot, and that's a shame, also because a large part of the playerbase is excluded that way. 

 

However, there is always going to be a 'grinding aspect' involved. You just can't except a player who doesnt invest time to get the same rewards as someone who does. And the rewards itself are (arguably) worth it (bonds, or 'fame;). Also, like in previous seasons, there IS going to be a natural ranked cap determined by skill. A 43% player just won't be able to level up to Rank15. Now, someone could get quite lucky for a number of battles and rank up beyond his skill level. But i do believe that are more exceptions than the rule.



Erwin_Von_Braun #6 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:16 AM

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View PostMaxxyNL, on 09 February 2018 - 10:52 PM, said:

Nobody is forced to play Ranked Battles. Don't like it, don't play it. :harp:

 

This ^^

fighting_falcon93 #7 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:23 AM

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View PostMaxxyNL, on 09 February 2018 - 11:52 PM, said:

Nobody is forced to play Ranked Battles. Don't like it, don't play it. :harp:

 

Don't like his feedback? Then get the ---- out of here and don't post stupid replies. Simple :harp:

Ziurawka #8 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:29 AM

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View PostMaxxyNL, on 09 February 2018 - 11:52 PM, said:

Nobody is forced to play Ranked Battles. Don't like it, don't play it. :harp:

 

Actually... everyone who wants to get the damned 5'th currency pretty much needs to play ranked. 

Just to be clear, I'm not going into a discussion whether the 2,5% difference is relevant or not. 



_EXODUZ_ #9 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:37 AM

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You're putting too much thought and emotions into some game mode. It's a game dude. A GAME.

 



Erwin_Von_Braun #10 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:37 AM

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View Postfighting_falcon93, on 09 February 2018 - 11:23 PM, said:

 

Don't like his feedback? Then get the ---- out of here and don't post stupid replies. Simple :harp:

 

His reply is perfectly relevant.

If you have a problem with the reply, which he is perfectly entitled to give, then feel free to get the ........ you know the rest:P



Cannes76 #11 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:41 AM

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The main problem as I see it is the +4 chevrons per battle added into the economy with every battle, not even counting the shielded players. This will lead to the same problem as in season 1 where it was solely about time investment. Season 2 was way better with the neutral base economy, where the top ranks were only populated by great players.

Junglist_ #12 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:44 AM

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View Post_EXODUZ_, on 09 February 2018 - 11:37 PM, said:

You're putting too much thought and emotions into some game mode. It's a game dude. A GAME.

 

 

God forbid some people get passionate about their hobby! 

Erwin_Von_Braun #13 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:48 AM

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View PostJunglist_, on 09 February 2018 - 11:44 PM, said:

 

God forbid some people get passionate about their hobby!

 

I thought you were from the Czech Republic?

At least, that's what you told me...



fighting_falcon93 #14 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:51 AM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 10 February 2018 - 12:37 AM, said:

His reply is perfectly relevant.

 

I didn't say that it was irrelevant... I said that it was stupid.

 

Wunde wrote very detailed feedback about what he thinks is wrong with ranked battles. Not agreing with it is entirely fine, but then he can explain why he doesn't agree to it instead of being a ---- and write a stupid comment.



Junglist_ #15 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:51 AM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 09 February 2018 - 11:48 PM, said:

 

I thought you were from the Czech Republic?

At least, that's what you told me...

 

wow thats so relevant /s

Erwin_Von_Braun #16 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:52 AM

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View Postfighting_falcon93, on 09 February 2018 - 11:51 PM, said:

 

I didn't say that it was irrelevant... I said that it was stupid.

 

Wunde wrote very detailed feedback about what he thinks is wrong with ranked battles. Not agreing with it is entirely fine, but then he can explain why he doesn't agree to it instead of being a ---- and write a stupid comment.

 

A little like your reply to him then I guess?

Erwin_Von_Braun #17 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:53 AM

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View PostJunglist_, on 09 February 2018 - 11:51 PM, said:

 

wow thats so relevant /s

 

Doesn't answer my question...............

Or have you told so many lies you cannot remember them all?



Erwin_Von_Braun #18 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:54 AM

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View PostWunderWurst, on 09 February 2018 - 09:56 PM, said:

Hello my dear plebarians,

it is this time of the year - yet another ranked season is dawning. And even before the season has started I am already complaing :) So here we go.... AGAIN.

https://worldoftanks...ttles-season-1/ This is the link to the "official changes for this season.

 

1. Before we start I would like to ask you a question: Are players who pay money for WG products equal to players who play2free?

My answer when it comes to ranked battles, they are not. A free2play player cannot use gold ammo at his free will, food and premium comsumables will ruin him in no time. Yet these things if anyone who uses them a noticable advantage. In the "environement of ultimate competetion" every single advantage is supposed to be used to come out on top. Yet free2play players wont have access to such advantages.

What I am trying to say here is that the chances for everyone to compte are not equal. Free2play player will start with a distinct advantage, even more so when it comes to ranked battles. So in reality ranked is not a fair competetion, most will start with an even severe handicap. So much for equal chances and "skillbased" gameplay.

 

2. Now to the actual changes: I stand by what I have said in my other topics, In short: Two VERY IMPORTANT factors any ranked system has to fullfill: A - The system itself cannot be allowed to influence the gameplay, or the golbal goal of the game and B - Skill rules supreme. Nothing else but the skill should influence the standing on the ladder. So did WGs changes archieve these goals?

 

OK as per usual, first please define what "ranked battles" are in your eyes, what do you expect them to be? For me? Well I expect to compete with every player playing this mode. Only skill should determine who rules supreme, all other factors should be avoided at all costs. I expect to play against and with roughly equally skilled players in a ranked game mode.

Now I like to make some quotes happen:

 

Yet again... Wargaming does not want ranked battles to be actually about skill but time invested. The "grinding aspect" of this mode is yet again more that present. Grinding DOES NOT belong in a ranked mode! What is there to say? Two equally skilled players WILL NOT end up next to each other on the leader boards if one of these two has more time. THe guy with more time will have an advantage. That IS NOT ranked.

And now to the part which made me basically instantly giving up on the ranked battles:

 So yeah... The gameplay wont be any fun yet again... A system which is actively rewarding at least some players of the losing side is a system designed to fail. Such a system will NEVER EVER work. This influences the gameplay. Instead of chasing the one supreme goal, winning the battle for and with the team, there is an even strong incentive to play in an destructive way.

Why is the losing side rewarded for losing, and maybe even more important, why is not every player of the winning side rewaded?

We have seen how this influences the gameplay in the possibly worst way anyone can ever imagine... Yet it is still there.

 

So here is a radical idea: You want to have an even ground zero for everyone? Well then remove the entire economy level from ranked battles: The player neither earns credits exp and everything else, nor does he lose anything. Everyone can play exactly who he likes to, might that be full premium consumables and gold rounds only.

However he wont get crew exp, wont be able to get credits either, and wont get any experience, might that be bound one or free.

Then add a proper ladder system, with proper up and downranking. Get rid of the grind aspect...

And ofc reward every winner for winning, even though the particular player might not have had any positive impact on the outcome, also punish every player of the losing side. ONLY AND ONLY that way you can ensure that every single player does his personal best to ensure a victory.

 

PS: Dont get me even started with the pisspoor tier 10 balance. I expect nothing less than hordes of Obj 268V4, 907, 430U, SQ roaming the fields of battle. Such diversity many many weows.....

 

 

 

Nothing more than a whine thread.

Like someone else said, if you don't like it, then don't play it.



Junglist_ #19 Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:58 AM

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View PostErwin_Von_Braun, on 09 February 2018 - 11:53 PM, said:

 

Doesn't answer my question...............

Or have you told so many lies you cannot remember them all?

 

what lies lol? And what is it with with your obsession with my english? Go check my post history where i recently posted in czech section if you cant believe the fact that people from eastern europe can speak more than one language

Erwin_Von_Braun #20 Posted 10 February 2018 - 01:00 AM

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View PostJunglist_, on 09 February 2018 - 11:58 PM, said:

 

what lies lol? And what is it with with your obsession with my english? Go check my post history where i recently posted in czech section if you cant believe the fact that people from eastern europe can speak more than one language

 

Yes, ofc.

Your grammar and sentence construction would seem to indicate otherwise...






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