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Other tiers for Grand Battles

Grand battles tank tiers

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Poll: Grand battle tiers (48 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

What tiers should have access to grand battles?

  1. Below tier 5 (2 votes [2.30%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.30%

  2. Tier 5 (3 votes [3.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.45%

  3. Tier 6 (7 votes [8.05%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.05%

  4. Tier 7 (12 votes [13.79%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.79%

  5. Tier 8 (18 votes [20.69%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.69%

  6. Tier 9 (21 votes [24.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 24.14%

  7. All of the above (10 votes [11.49%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.49%

  8. Keep it as it is (14 votes [16.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.09%

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blastingcap #1 Posted 10 February 2018 - 02:59 AM

    Lance-corporal

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In my opinion, tier 5 and up should all get a chance (a very small chance, tho) to get in a Grand Battle. You would only meet tanks of the same tier, everything else as is. We shouldn't have to have a tier 10 (and go through tier 8 shenanigans) to experience Grand Battles, and could bring some variety to low/mid tiers. Below tier 5 would be a bad idea, because then, tanks like the FCM36PAK40 and M2 Mediums would have an unfair advantage, not to mention all the happy strawberries, playing the game for a few days, getting clubbed more than they already get. We don't need any 30 kill games done on B2 740s, and tier 5 is pretty balanced. Let me know your opinions.

_T_1_T_4_N_0_ #2 Posted 10 February 2018 - 06:57 AM

    Second Lieutenant

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The 30v30 are perfect as they are.
We should have complementary grand battles with 1.1km x 1.1km & 1.2km x 1.2km 15v15s for battle tiers 9 & 10.
WoT is a linear progression game and apart from GB maps stopped @ T6!
Many of the maps are designed around lower tiers and are broken at higher.
We need specific maps for higher tiers that the definitive container, size can provide.  

9IBrownie #3 Posted 10 February 2018 - 01:15 PM

    Lance-corporal

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Grand Battles for lower thab Tier 8 would probably not be fun because of the lack in view range. I wish T8 and T9 could get grand battles either though.

Enforcer1975 #4 Posted 10 February 2018 - 06:22 PM

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View Post9IBrownie, on 10 February 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

Grand Battles for lower thab Tier 8 would probably not be fun because of the lack in view range. I wish T8 and T9 could get grand battles either though.

The distancesender would probably be too much for tanks below tier 4 but i see no problem why at least tier 5 and higher shouldn't be able to play on the GB maps. You have a lot of usable space unlike with tier 10s that can spot you despite the size of the map. 



Ganjalf94 #5 Posted 10 February 2018 - 06:49 PM

    Lance-corporal

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tier 5 and up would be viable, below tier 5 would be hilarious.

SlyMeerkat #6 Posted 10 February 2018 - 07:10 PM

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Id like it to be on all tiers seeming as i hardly ever play tier 10 so dont really see much of the 30v30 maps 

CrySpy #7 Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:44 AM

    Second Lieutenant

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It's endgame content and should stay that way. At least until frontlines is implented.

Junglist_ #8 Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:54 AM

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View PostCrySpy, on 11 February 2018 - 12:44 AM, said:

It's endgame content and should stay that way. At least until frontlines is implented.

 

Sadly that's probably never going to happen. WG got a different developer to help them with Frontline and looks like after the one sandbox testing they abandoned the mode. Not enough corridors I guess and it would take Murazor too long to find a corner he can sit at with his Maus and god forbid he'd actually have to drive more than 200 meters from the base.

Balc0ra #9 Posted 11 February 2018 - 02:00 AM

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It's limited to tier X atm because it's still in testing if you will. They did say when the first did arrive that other tiers will get it later at some point when they are more happy with it. But only on higher tiers. What the low limit is planned to be? Who knows. But even tier 5 and down would not work on those big maps tbh. Even with a Pak 40 with 445m view range. Even on a 1 by 1 km map it would work even less for 30 vs 30. Just imagine that yolo fail on one flank? No one in their right mind would leave that on then.

Innapropriate_Username #10 Posted 11 February 2018 - 02:01 AM

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View PostJunglist_, on 11 February 2018 - 01:54 AM, said:

Sadly that's probably never going to happen. WG got a different developer to help them with Frontline and looks like after the one sandbox testing they abandoned the mode. Not enough corridors I guess and it would take Murazor too long to find a corner he can sit at with his Maus and god forbid he'd actually have to drive more than 200 meters from the base.

 

No problem Comrade, blyat 268v4 drives 60kmh up hill, can put Maus back in Garage soviet better again da!

Jotneblod #11 Posted 11 February 2018 - 02:12 AM

    Corporal

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I'd love to see tier 9 only grand battles. Tier 10 has too many broken things for them to be any fun. Can't realistically go lower than 9 though because of the lack of view range in most tanks.

 

I think grand battles as a design are a failure though and by now it appears most players have realized this. I recently had grand battles activated for a couple of weeks and during that period I got a grand total(LOL PUN INTENDED) of 1 grand battles, which was complete [edited] and chaos and I turned off the game mode afterwards. Based on how long it took me to get just 1 grand battle, I get the feeling most players have come to the same conclusion. I probably played 200 tier 10 battles before getting the lone grand battle.


Currently World of Tanks rewards camping far too generously for grand battles to work. Making the maps bigger just creates more camping possibilities by encouraging "render range sniping" where a player simply camps outside of the maximum spotting range of the enemy tanks while still being within render range of the intended targets. This means you can shoot enemy tanks but can't be spotted by them even when you fire and your camo goes to effective zero. In large maps this kind of situation is ridiculously easy to set up. All you need to do is check the circles on your minimap and position yourself outside of the maximum spotting range from the enemies and farm damage.

 

What World of Tanks needs is making the render range match the maximum spotting range, or at least reduce the difference between the two. Currently the render range is something like 565m while the maximum spotting range is only 445m. That's a 120m free farm, risk free area. A good fix would be if the maximum spotting range could be upped to 475m(from current 445m) while render range would be reduced to 500m(from current 565m). This would still create opportunities for render range sniping but it would be much less broken and would require more situational awareness to set up. Currently the difference of 120m between maximum spotting range and render range just takes all the skill away from sniping and turns it into brainless camping and in big maps this is very noticeable. This is also why the bad players like TDs so much, it's so easy and forgiving to camp within that window of 120m when there's zero risk of being spotted or shot back at. As long as they can manage to lick that 120m long window(which is their specialty), they're going to be rewarded.

 

This is the kind of behavior that grand battles are rewarding, which is why the format is dying.


Edited by Jotneblod, 11 February 2018 - 02:16 AM.


CrySpy #12 Posted 11 February 2018 - 02:20 AM

    Second Lieutenant

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View PostJunglist_, on 11 February 2018 - 02:54 AM, said:

 Sadly that's probably never going to happen. WG got a different developer to help them with Frontline and looks like after the one sandbox testing they abandoned the mode. Not enough corridors I guess and it would take Murazor too long to find a corner he can sit at with his Maus and god forbid he'd actually have to drive more than 200 meters from the base.

 

It was stated be comig this year in the 2018 plans article. The dev diaries about grand battles also mentions that grand battles was in part pratice for frontlines.



EltvilleTiger #13 Posted 11 February 2018 - 11:17 AM

    Lieutenant

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I think that with lower tiers we would end up with even more campers.  With more inexperienced players at lower tiers, the battles would drag on.  Tier8 would be the absolute minimum allowed.  GB would be a single tier mode (no 3-5-7 models or anything like that) until it develops into something more than the basic mode that it is now.  I'd prefer WG to spend more time getting Frontline developed and implemented as that was truly a fun mode with little opportunity to camp.

KasparStavro #14 Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:26 PM

    Corporal

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View PostJotneblod, on 11 February 2018 - 01:12 AM, said:

I'd love to see tier 9 only grand battles. Tier 10 has too many broken things for them to be any fun. Can't realistically go lower than 9 though because of the lack of view range in most tanks.

 

I think grand battles as a design are a failure though and by now it appears most players have realized this. I recently had grand battles activated for a couple of weeks and during that period I got a grand total(LOL PUN INTENDED) of 1 grand battles, which was complete [edited] and chaos and I turned off the game mode afterwards. Based on how long it took me to get just 1 grand battle, I get the feeling most players have come to the same conclusion. I probably played 200 tier 10 battles before getting the lone grand battle.


Currently World of Tanks rewards camping far too generously for grand battles to work. Making the maps bigger just creates more camping possibilities by encouraging "render range sniping" where a player simply camps outside of the maximum spotting range of the enemy tanks while still being within render range of the intended targets. This means you can shoot enemy tanks but can't be spotted by them even when you fire and your camo goes to effective zero. In large maps this kind of situation is ridiculously easy to set up. All you need to do is check the circles on your minimap and position yourself outside of the maximum spotting range from the enemies and farm damage.

 

What World of Tanks needs is making the render range match the maximum spotting range, or at least reduce the difference between the two. Currently the render range is something like 565m while the maximum spotting range is only 445m. That's a 120m free farm, risk free area. A good fix would be if the maximum spotting range could be upped to 475m(from current 445m) while render range would be reduced to 500m(from current 565m). This would still create opportunities for render range sniping but it would be much less broken and would require more situational awareness to set up. Currently the difference of 120m between maximum spotting range and render range just takes all the skill away from sniping and turns it into brainless camping and in big maps this is very noticeable. This is also why the bad players like TDs so much, it's so easy and forgiving to camp within that window of 120m when there's zero risk of being spotted or shot back at. As long as they can manage to lick that 120m long window(which is their specialty), they're going to be rewarded.

 

This is the kind of behavior that grand battles are rewarding, which is why the format is dying.

well actually when in lack of view range - scouts would at last get a chance to be a little more than mediums wannabes



Innapropriate_Username #15 Posted 11 February 2018 - 10:57 PM

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View PostJotneblod, on 11 February 2018 - 02:12 AM, said:

Spoiler

 

 

Aaaand the grand defect in core-gameplay mechanic is revealed!

 

View-range and render-range are game-braking mechanics, that is one of reasons Arty causes so much rage.

 

Also, aiming assistance for distance-shell drop-off is linked to same mechanic, if you had "Manual Aim" mode for both Ary and every tank, you could use indirect fire to shoot over cover or hills... but that is something that would remove "Arcade-Gameplay" effect and wont be even considered.

 

Only way is to put "Game Winning Objective" in enemy base, so if any member of one Team does not attack and enter enemy base - they loose game by default.

That would eliminate camping, or, to put it better - Punish Camping (Not like Arty+ikea combo that only encourages players to "Dig in and not move"   )

If you want to force players to move, attack and play, there needs to be game-loosing punishment for camping, not only reward for farming dmg. (Maybe blocking detachments :trollface: )

Whole "Only thing that counts in game is Damage" Economy model is flawed and encourages selfish and passive play - the fact also exposed in grand battles, rewarding players by only damage failed miserably and is still updated with unknown formula that rewards players with chevrons.

 


Edited by Innapropriate_Username, 11 February 2018 - 10:58 PM.


NoPoet406 #16 Posted 11 February 2018 - 11:32 PM

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View PostInnapropriate_Username, on 11 February 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

Whole "Only thing that counts in game is Damage" Economy model is flawed and encourages selfish and passive play - the fact also exposed in grand battles, rewarding players by only damage failed miserably and is still updated with unknown formula that rewards players with chevrons.

 

Agreed, this is why we now have light tanks running around blowing the crap out of KV1s and AT8s in every battle. Why didn't they change the XP and player rating system to reward good play rather than just damage? Would a passive scout who gets 4000 spotting damage but only 400 damage of his own, who earns Mastery for that battle, have only earned a few hundred XP and a few dozen WN8?

L0ddy #17 Posted 12 February 2018 - 03:47 PM

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Oh lord what fun the Toaster would be in a grand battle:trollface:

CptBarney #18 Posted 12 February 2018 - 03:54 PM

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All of them with maybe 60v60 for tiers 4 and below 30v30 for tiers 5-7 and 15v15 for tiers 8 and above.

 



blastingcap #19 Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:20 PM

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View PostDumbNumpty, on 10 February 2018 - 06:57 AM, said:

The 30v30 are perfect as they are.
We should have complementary grand battles with 1.1km x 1.1km & 1.2km x 1.2km 15v15s for battle tiers 9 & 10.
WoT is a linear progression game and apart from GB maps stopped @ T6!
Many of the maps are designed around lower tiers and are broken at higher.
We need specific maps for higher tiers that the definitive container, size can provide.  

Mines is completely broken. So small, arty gets spotted when moving. Same for Himmelsdorf.






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