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Tortoise weight and wg logic


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staurinsh #1 Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:28 PM

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Tortoise got unhistorical armor buff but maintained the same weight ~79t + got better power to weight ratio. WG, you should sell your secrets how to make heavy armored tanks with less weight. Same story with maus.

Grand_Moff_Tano #2 Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:33 PM

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Guys, don't show him the VK45.02P Ausf. B

Edited by Chipmunk_of_Vengeance, 10 February 2018 - 09:33 PM.


AliceUnchained #3 Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:35 PM

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Yeah, those are the only 'unhistorical' aspects in WoT.... At least it has that historically accurate gun eh?

Grand_Moff_Tano #4 Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:37 PM

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View PostAliceUnchained, on 10 February 2018 - 08:35 PM, said:

Yeah, those are the only 'unhistorical' aspects in WoT.... At least it has that historically accurate gun eh?

 

And the completely historical hit points and +/-25% RNG.

Edited by Chipmunk_of_Vengeance, 10 February 2018 - 09:37 PM.


staurinsh #5 Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:38 PM

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View PostChipmunk_of_Vengeance, on 10 February 2018 - 08:33 PM, said:

Guys, don't show him the VK45.02P Ausf. B

 

I know, it is lsd made tank, like tier 10 fv heavy, and many other tanks.

Grand_Moff_Tano #6 Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:41 PM

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View Poststaurinsh, on 10 February 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

 

I know, it is lsd made tank, like tier 10 fv heavy, and many other tanks.

 

It is an actual design, not a fake like the FV215b, but it does have unhistorically buffed armour that I don't think matches up with the weight it has ingame.

Edited by Chipmunk_of_Vengeance, 10 February 2018 - 09:41 PM.


staurinsh #7 Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:49 PM

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"actual"-blueprint

Hotwired #8 Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:55 PM

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Any minute you'll be saying its unhistorical to have cupolas with 30cm of armour on a medium tank.

 

That was introduced this week.



Aikl #9 Posted 10 February 2018 - 10:04 PM

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The stupid part about the Tortoise, and similar tanks, is that buffs and general stats intended for close-quarters combat and assaults only results in an even more effective camping machine that T8s have a really hard time dealing with. 

 

Oh, I forgot to flank it while it holds A1 on Fisherman's Bay or the base on Sand River. Stupid me!



staurinsh #10 Posted 10 February 2018 - 10:06 PM

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View PostHotwired, on 10 February 2018 - 08:55 PM, said:

Any minute you'll be saying its unhistorical to have cupolas with 30cm of armour on a medium tank.

 

That was introduced this week.

 

No, im enjoying new, balanced russian grille and the heat spam from it.

Edited by staurinsh, 10 February 2018 - 10:06 PM.


Hotwired #11 Posted 11 February 2018 - 12:21 PM

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View PostAikl, on 10 February 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

The stupid part about the Tortoise, and similar tanks, is that buffs and general stats intended for close-quarters combat and assaults only results in an even more effective camping machine that T8s have a really hard time dealing with. 

 

Oh, I forgot to flank it while it holds A1 on Fisherman's Bay or the base on Sand River. Stupid me!

 

The Tortoise and similar tanks have a huge time penalty.

 

If they leave base and the enemy decides to push and fight the other side of the map the Tortoise and similar tanks will be unable to join in for a long time because of their mobility and that can cost the game.

 

Same thing happens if the Tortoise and similar tanks hold base but the enemy ignores the base and fights miles away. The Tortoise and similar tanks might do no damage and get a free win or they might end up alone and surrounded because allies died fighting a long way off.

 

So when you are trying to push into a Tortoise or similar tank when it's defending it's an awesome day for that Tortoise or similar tank because you've used your speed to get into their fighting zone and they are very powerful at defending.

 

You're right that you will get your [edited]kicked if you are a tier below trying to fight a defending Tortoise or similar tank. Defending and slow pushing is all they do.



RamRaid90 #12 Posted 11 February 2018 - 12:42 PM

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View PostChipmunk_of_Vengeance, on 10 February 2018 - 08:41 PM, said:

 

It is an actual design, not a fake like the backwards Conqueror, but it does have unhistorically buffed armour that I don't think matches up with the weight it has ingame.

 

FTFY.

 

To OP. This is not a simulator. This is an arcade style shooter involving armoured vehicles from different  time periods (mainly between 1930-1970) Some things on tanks are made unhistorical inorder to balance them to compete vs other tanks.

 

I didn't ever hear of a real tank crew repairing a track in 5 seconds, or being ableto repair a damaged turret ring without removing the turret, or complaining that they got matched vs +2 enemies and they caan't pen the Maus without premium...

 

Get over it. It means nothing.



K_A #13 Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:05 PM

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View PostChipmunk_of_Vengeance, on 10 February 2018 - 08:41 PM, said:

 

It is an actual design, not a fake like the FV215b, but it does have unhistorically buffed armour that I don't think matches up with the weight it has ingame.

 

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/cold-war-british-prototypes/fv215-heavy-gun-tank/

Sfinski #14 Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:10 PM

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Logic and WG never been close friends. 

Hotwired #15 Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:42 PM

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and a quote from that....

Busting a Myth, The FV215b

This vehicle has showcased in Wargamming’s “World of Tanks” for quite some time now, but it is almost certainly a fake vehicle. It is a FV215 with a rear mounted Conqueror turret and the 120 mm L1A1 gun.

The vehicle was thought to have come into existence because of a confusion with the designation FV215 heavy gun tank. It was interpreted as a second separate project but was, in fact, one and the same. Even the designation of FV215b is somewhat of a misnomer.

 

The FV215 was designed specially to carry the 183mm gun and fire huge HESH shells as an ultimate anti-tank weapon.

 

The one with a 120mm gun is WG deciding to glue the FV215 hull and a Conqueror turret together.


Edited by Hotwired, 11 February 2018 - 01:43 PM.


Grand_Moff_Tano #16 Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:44 PM

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Sorry, but the FV215b Heavy Tank is a fake, it was never armed, nor was it ever meant to be or for there to be any reason for it to be equipped with a Conqueror Turret and 120mm gun, so it is by all means a fake.



Aikl #17 Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:51 PM

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View PostHotwired, on 11 February 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:

 

The Tortoise and similar tanks have a huge time penalty.

 

If they leave base and the enemy decides to push and fight the other side of the map the Tortoise and similar tanks will be unable to join in for a long time because of their mobility and that can cost the game.

 

Same thing happens if the Tortoise and similar tanks hold base but the enemy ignores the base and fights miles away. The Tortoise and similar tanks might do no damage and get a free win or they might end up alone and surrounded because allies died fighting a long way off.

 

So when you are trying to push into a Tortoise or similar tank when it's defending it's an awesome day for that Tortoise or similar tank because you've used your speed to get into their fighting zone and they are very powerful at defending.

 

You're right that you will get your [edited]kicked if you are a tier below trying to fight a defending Tortoise or similar tank. Defending and slow pushing is all they do.

 

Yeah, doesn't help that the buffs don't really enable it to take a more active role either. Can't blame players for using a vehicle in what arguably is the most effective way to get some damage done.

Most superheavy vehicles would likely be overall 'healthier' (more fun/interesting to play or play against) if they got a higher top speed with less agility/acceleration - though such a rework would also require more mobility-based gameplay with local defense rather than the 'cover half the map' vantage points.

Idea would be that a Maus, Tortoise or Type 5 could play a more active role and not necessarily be virtually guaranteed a victory against e.g. IS-7 in close quarters (well, less so for the Tortoise; but it's still agile enough to not be circled by 'heaviums;). 268 v4 seems to be made with this in mind - before it got a treatment in the large padded room dedicated to crayon-eaters (reminder to self: make an off-topic thread with Wargaming office fiction).



K_A #18 Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:52 PM

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View PostChipmunk_of_Vengeance, on 11 February 2018 - 12:44 PM, said:

 

Sorry, but the FV215b Heavy Tank is a fake, it was never armed, nor was it ever meant to be or for there to be any reason for it to be equipped with a Conqueror Turret and 120mm gun, so it is by all means a fake.

 

Well yea that one is, but then that's not the only tank in the game with the wrong turrets and/or guns. The tank itself (or at least the nomenclature) did, however, exist at least as a blueprint. 

Grand_Moff_Tano #19 Posted 11 February 2018 - 01:54 PM

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View PostK_A, on 11 February 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

 

Well yea that one is, but then that's not the only tank in the game with the wrong turrets and/or guns. The tank itself (or at least the nomenclature) did, however, exist at least as a blueprint. 

 

It existed as a Mockup, not just as a blueprint, that vehicle is at least the real deal and can't wait for it to return.

Hotwired #20 Posted 11 February 2018 - 02:17 PM

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View PostChipmunk_of_Vengeance, on 11 February 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

 

It existed as a Mockup, not just as a blueprint, that vehicle is at least the real deal and can't wait for it to return.

 

Should have been put in as a branch from the Conqueror since that was what the hull was based on.




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