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Badger vs Obj 268 4


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Archaean #1 Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:07 AM

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What's the point of the badger with the Obj 268 4 in the game now?

ogremage #2 Posted 12 February 2018 - 08:37 AM

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There is no. Power creep. But in a year they will nerf 268 4 and release a different OP tank.

Kirk_Helmet #3 Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:52 PM

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I still like Badger more, it's way more versatile with an accurate gun and great dpm.

soul3ater #4 Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:54 PM

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View PostKirk_Helmet, on 12 February 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

I still like Badger more, it's way more versatile with an accurate gun and great dpm.

 

you're lying or you're just taking the piss.

 

why would you take a slower, less alpha dmg per shot over something with insane armour, the speed of a medium and high alpha gun? pls



Kirk_Helmet #5 Posted 12 February 2018 - 02:15 PM

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View Postsoul3ater, on 12 February 2018 - 01:54 PM, said:

 

you're lying or you're just taking the piss.

 

why would you take a slower, less alpha dmg per shot over something with insane armour, the speed of a medium and high alpha gun? pls

 

Do I really need to repeat myself? Ok, just please pay more attention this time - because: "it's way more versatile with an accurate gun and great dpm."

Armor on 268 v4 may seem insane but I played something around 30 battles in it and have met plenty of well aiming players who were able to penetrate either this tiny little lower plate or a cupola (often on standard ammo) but that's not he thing. Abysmal traverse speed and bad dpm make it easy to outmanouver if the player in 268 v4 goes a bit too far in his assault.

 

Still I'm not taking part in arguments about the obj. 268 v4 being OP or not cause I am one of those who never wanted it in the first place. I would like my old tier X Obj 263 back. I guess we would all be happy if WG listened to the feedback during tests...  



Dava_117 #6 Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:03 PM

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Badger armour is better and the gun is more accurate and fast firing.

I penned 268v4 with AP in my KV-4 shooting from above in his UFP (the one 100mm thick) while I had to load HEAT to pen Badger from above in IS-4.

Not saying v4 is bad (because it is not), but sacrificing turn speed for overbuffed armour on an assault gun is just stupid!


Edited by Dava_117, 12 February 2018 - 05:04 PM.


250swb #7 Posted 12 February 2018 - 05:51 PM

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The traverse speed of the 268v4 is tragic, truly awful, which makes it yet again a very situational tank that WG have introduced. The initial WR and hype seems to me about equal with that of the Badger, and look where that is in the stats now other players know what to shoot at and know all they need to do is flank it or wait for it to turn.

Pandabird #8 Posted 12 February 2018 - 07:31 PM

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no.

 

Drive obj into a tunnel. Shoot scout dead. shoot medium dead. shoot heavy dead.

 

 

 

Biggest downside with obj is getting past all the wrecks in the narrow passages.

 

If you get past, shoot td dead, shoot spg dead.

 

 

vodka vodka victory!



Hotwired #9 Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:14 PM

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View PostKirk_Helmet, on 12 February 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

 

Do I really need to repeat myself? Ok, just please pay more attention this time - because: "it's way more versatile with an accurate gun and great dpm."

Armor on 268 v4 may seem insane but I played something around 30 battles in it and have met plenty of well aiming players who were able to penetrate either this tiny little lower plate or a cupola (often on standard ammo) but that's not he thing. Abysmal traverse speed and bad dpm make it easy to outmanouver if the player in 268 v4 goes a bit too far in his assault.

 

Still I'm not taking part in arguments about the obj. 268 v4 being OP or not cause I am one of those who never wanted it in the first place. I would like my old tier X Obj 263 back. I guess we would all be happy if WG listened to the feedback during tests...  

 

View PostDava_117, on 12 February 2018 - 04:03 PM, said:

Badger armour is better and the gun is more accurate and fast firing.

I penned 268v4 with AP in my KV-4 shooting from above in his UFP (the one 100mm thick) while I had to load HEAT to pen Badger from above in IS-4.

Not saying v4 is bad (because it is not), but sacrificing turn speed for overbuffed armour on an assault gun is just stupid!

 

View Post250swb, on 12 February 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

The traverse speed of the 268v4 is tragic, truly awful, which makes it yet again a very situational tank that WG have introduced. The initial WR and hype seems to me about equal with that of the Badger, and look where that is in the stats now other players know what to shoot at and know all they need to do is flank it or wait for it to turn.

 

Is this actually something special?

 

Lets start with the Obj 268 4 with 23 degrees traverse.

 

Now lets look at other TD which have heavy armour and see what we see.

 

T28 - 24 degrees traverse

T95 - 24 degrees traverse

T110E3  - 24 degrees traverse

T110E4 - 26 degrees traverse

 

263 - 25 degrees traverse

 

WZ-111G FT - 25 degrees traverse

WZ-113G FT - 30 degrees traverse

 

AT-15 - 20 degrees traverse

Tortoise - 22 degrees traverse

Badger - 22 degrees traverse

 

Jagdtiger - 26 degrees traverse

JagdPanzer E100 - 20 degrees traverse

 

AMX AC Mle. 48 - 28 degrees traverse

AMX 50 Foch - 28 degrees traverse

AMX 50 Foch B - 30 degrees traverse

 

Oh, it's absolutely normal for an armoured TD to have 23 degrees traverse.

 

Maybe the problem is that it's too fast. Having 20hp/ton and 55/22 top speed is a weakness that cripples the players when they can do a straight line as fast as a light tank but their brains don't understand that they cannot turn like a light tank.

 

The solution is to buff the tank by lowering the power ratio and top speed, this will save players from thinking it can turn quickly just because it can move quickly.

 

Imagine how bad a Tortoise would be with 20hp/ton and 55/22 top speed. People would be saying they are dying to its low traverse all over the forum.



soul3ater #10 Posted 12 February 2018 - 10:56 PM

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View PostKirk_Helmet, on 12 February 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

 

Do I really need to repeat myself? Ok, just please pay more attention this time - because: "it's way more versatile with an accurate gun and great dpm."

Armor on 268 v4 may seem insane but I played something around 30 battles in it and have met plenty of well aiming players who were able to penetrate either this tiny little lower plate or a cupola (often on standard ammo) but that's not he thing. Abysmal traverse speed and bad dpm make it easy to outmanouver if the player in 268 v4 goes a bit too far in his assault.

 

Still I'm not taking part in arguments about the obj. 268 v4 being OP or not cause I am one of those who never wanted it in the first place. I would like my old tier X Obj 263 back. I guess we would all be happy if WG listened to the feedback during tests...  

 

if a tank is OP then it is OP, there is no argument here, and the fact that you didn't want the tank in the first place doesn't negate the fact that it's OP.

 

HEAT struggles against this tank and you're telling me people penned you with an AP round? show me the replays of these godlike players who can pen this tank with AP multiple times.



Hotwired #11 Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:37 PM

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View PostHotwired, on 12 February 2018 - 09:14 PM, said:

Imagine how bad a Tortoise would be with 20hp/ton and 55/22 top speed. People would be saying they are dying to its low traverse all over the forum.

 

Changed my mind.

 

People would **** their pants if a Tortoise could rush them.

 

What kind of idiot would make a mega armoured TD with great firepower and then give it 20hp/ton and 55/22 top speed :rolleyes:



German_Dunc #12 Posted 12 February 2018 - 11:44 PM

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Well. I had a face to face with a 268-4 in my Badger the other night. Because TD 15, I was running Tea as well as the Directives rammer boost.

 

No worries, thinks I, I've got massive DPM advantage, and he can barely pen my upper hull frontally. True enough, he screams in and face hugs me. 

 

The problem was that because of his massive mobility advantage, he could face hug me whilst reloading and constantly wiggle - making it impossible to pen him. Then, once he'd reloaded, he reversed quicker that I could accelerate forwards, and drill one into my LFP. Repeat process until Badger is dead. Literally no counter to it.

 

It's a medium, with heavy tank front, TD gun, all helped by Old Joe himself.

 

Totally not OP. At all.

 


Edited by German_Dunc, 12 February 2018 - 11:45 PM.


Dava_117 #13 Posted 13 February 2018 - 01:42 AM

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View PostHotwired, on 12 February 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

 

 

 

Is this actually something special?

 

Lets start with the Obj 268 4 with 23 degrees traverse.

 

Now lets look at other TD which have heavy armour and see what we see.

 

T28 - 24 degrees traverse

T95 - 24 degrees traverse

T110E3  - 24 degrees traverse

T110E4 - 26 degrees traverse

 

263 - 25 degrees traverse

 

WZ-111G FT - 25 degrees traverse

WZ-113G FT - 30 degrees traverse

 

AT-15 - 20 degrees traverse

Tortoise - 22 degrees traverse

Badger - 22 degrees traverse

 

Jagdtiger - 26 degrees traverse

JagdPanzer E100 - 20 degrees traverse

 

AMX AC Mle. 48 - 28 degrees traverse

AMX 50 Foch - 28 degrees traverse

AMX 50 Foch B - 30 degrees traverse

 

Oh, it's absolutely normal for an armoured TD to have 23 degrees traverse.

 

Maybe the problem is that it's too fast. Having 20hp/ton and 55/22 top speed is a weakness that cripples the players when they can do a straight line as fast as a light tank but their brains don't understand that they cannot turn like a light tank.

 

The solution is to buff the tank by lowering the power ratio and top speed, this will save players from thinking it can turn quickly just because it can move quickly.

 

Imagine how bad a Tortoise would be with 20hp/ton and 55/22 top speed. People would be saying they are dying to its low traverse all over the forum.

 

I didn't said it's not normal, but that if you want to create an assault gun you first of all need agility: acceleration and turning speed. You can even sacrifice armour for the capability of peecking a corner and slam in the face of your enemy a 750 alpha shot while enemy is reloading.

Is what ISU and 704 lack too, otherwhise would both be good assault gun too...



Hotwired #14 Posted 13 February 2018 - 03:28 AM

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View PostDava_117, on 13 February 2018 - 12:42 AM, said:

 

I didn't said it's not normal, but that if you want to create an assault gun you first of all need agility: acceleration and turning speed. You can even sacrifice armour for the capability of peecking a corner and slam in the face of your enemy a 750 alpha shot while enemy is reloading.

Is what ISU and 704 lack too, otherwhise would both be good assault gun too...

 

????

 

You think the tank isn't strong enough?



FAME_skill4ltu #15 Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:21 AM

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badger is useless and 2684 is op. nothing else to say

Edited by FAME_skill4ltu, 13 February 2018 - 04:22 AM.


XxKuzkina_MatxX #16 Posted 13 February 2018 - 04:48 AM

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View Postsoul3ater, on 12 February 2018 - 11:56 PM, said:

 

if a tank is OP then it is OP, there is no argument here, and the fact that you didn't want the tank in the first place doesn't negate the fact that it's OP.

 

HEAT struggles against this tank and you're telling me people penned you with an AP round? show me the replays of these godlike players who can pen this tank with AP multiple times.

 

Penned twice in a row in the "tiny" lower plate by an IS-M using AP, that's 212 mm, distance was about 250m in Fisherman's bay and i wasn't sitting still. So yeah, the armor on the Badger is more predictable that's what me and others were trying to say and so far i don't like it at all, actually it's now in reserve! I don't want to sound rude but you don't come to the forum yelling "OP, monster, abomination" every time you bounce a single shot on another tank, troll armor are there in the game for a long time on many tanks and in different tiers but it just that "troll". Think about the IS3 upper plate, think about the O-Ho and most importantly, the actual value of accuracy in this game. The rest about the DPM and the accuracy is well known and leaves a lot to be desired.


Edited by XxKuzkina_MatxX, 13 February 2018 - 04:52 AM.


9IBrownie #17 Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:26 AM

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Are you guys really trying to argue about the "unpredictable armour" of the 368 v4? Thats like complaining about unreliable Gunhandling in a Strv. While you miss the occasional shot, you still have the best accuracy in the game! What are you smoking?

 


Edited by 9IBrownie, 13 February 2018 - 07:06 AM.


Cobra6 #18 Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:57 AM

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Any armour without a viable weakspot on the top and a weak lower plate is OP and should be rebalanced.

 

The JgdPzE100 is the only properly balanced one out of the bunch because you have a viable weakspot on the top (cupola) that you can hit if you have the skill to know it and aim well.

 

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uglycousin #19 Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:03 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 13 February 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Any armour without a viable weakspot on the top and a weak lower plate is OP and should be rebalanced.

 

The JgdPzE100 is the only properly balanced one out of the bunch because you have a viable weakspot on the top (cupola) that you can hit if you have the skill to know it and aim well.

 

Cobra 6

 

Not only that, but Jageroo also has a huge lower plate that you can easily rape if not hidden. It is also slow AF.

 

Obj.268 4 with the speed of a medium and that OP armor definitely needs some vodka rebalancing.



Uebergewicht #20 Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:12 AM

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While I agree that the 268 v4 has incredibly good armor, that picture above people always link is not really true to reality. It shows the 268 v4 at the exact perfect angle against APCR. If you´re off by the slightest margin, it actually looks like one of these:

 

apcr.png

 

And when we factor in high penetration HEAT rounds, it actually looks like this:

 

heat.png

 

The change is a lot more drastic on the 268 than it is on the Badger. The weakspots on the Badger remain the same, while the 268 lights up like a rainbow. And keep in mind that this is a Badger on flat ground, not even hull down.

 

While, yes, the armor of the 268 is really strong, it is also a lot less reliable than the armor on something like a Badger. Though keep in mind, with the 268, this works both ways: When driving a 268 you can sometimes get the wildest pens from seemingly harmless sources, in a variety of spots. But it also means that when actually fighting a 268 on the battlefield, a tank that constantly shifts and moves, it can be exceptionaly hard to judge whether or not youre at an angle where your shot will be an easy pen or an autobounce. Some of the spots, like the range finder, are at a range where a tier 8 can high roll with AP and pen it, but a tier 10 can lowroll on it and bounce. A high penetration round can autobounce while a lower pen round can go in because it´s HEAT. And so on.

 

A Badger doesnt have to deal with this. If a Badger gets penned in the front, you can pretty much assume your lower plate was showing and react accordingly (unless you were somehow angling your tank downwards awkwardly). With the 268, a pen could have any number of reasons, for the driver it is pretty much as obscure as it is for the person who fights is. The 268 v4 is just a pure trollwagon, the armor is unpredictable, it can show up anywhere on the map and it can derp shots around with .4 accuracy or snap you for 700 damge before you turn your turret. It is chaos incarnate, one of the big reasons it screws over tier 10 so much.






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