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WG's pay to win policy on M41


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MegaDeltaFighter #1 Posted 13 February 2018 - 05:38 AM

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compare M41 bulldog and the export version (which is usually weaker from the original version) M41 90 GF

what you see?

 

better alpha damage and pen. and with higher caliber gun the same dispersion better aim time

with the same armor higher hit-point

with the same size higher camouflage value

with less powerful engine higher max. speed?

why there is such differences just get one reasonable answer: WG pay to win policy

don't you think the same?

 



9IBrownie #2 Posted 13 February 2018 - 05:58 AM

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M41 GF has veen released before tier 10 lights. Since then tier 8 lights got better matchmaking, so they got nerfed a little. WG doesn't like to nerf premium tanks though, so they kept the GF as ut js. That's why its slightly more powerful now.

 

Its not op though in my opinon.



Search_Warrant #3 Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:05 AM

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Bulldog was once amazing. then great... then they took away the autoloader and made it total trash just like the T92. coz wG hate light tanks with the ability to defend itself against enemy heavies.

ricoBenitez1 #4 Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:42 AM

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I am woundering, How can it be pay 2 win if you are in a team with 11 players that dosent know how to win and you therefor loose would it not be pay2loose then ?

MegaDeltaFighter #5 Posted 13 February 2018 - 06:44 AM

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View PostricoBenitez1, on 13 February 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

I am woundering, How can it be pay 2 win if you are in a team with 11 players that dosent know how to win and you therefor loose would it not be pay2loose then ?

 

pay to win does not mean you pay and you win, it means pay to have higher chance to win. get higher chance to win just by paying, clear?

 



TheWarrener #6 Posted 13 February 2018 - 07:24 AM

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Of all the p2w aspects of this game you pick the one that actually makes sense and is justified to ilustrate your point 

Jethro_Grey #7 Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:05 AM

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P2W thread no. 78657756786556678, only 687more and we‘d have as much p2w threads as we have gold-ammo hurts mah tenk whine threads.

 

So, what is it this time? Got wrecked by one or just salty that WG doesn‘t put it on sale and you can‘t join the club? :trollface:



TJ72 #8 Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:33 AM

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View PostricoBenitez1, on 13 February 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

I am woundering, How can it be pay 2 win if you are in a team with 11 players that dosent know how to win and you therefor loose would it not be pay2loose then ?

 

I think this is a valid point. If WG are intent on putting 14 morons on your team it doesnt reallt matter how much you spent on premium tanks and gold ammo.

May as well save your money because that is where the real damning RNG is. ;)


Edited by TJ72, 13 February 2018 - 08:33 AM.


MegaDeltaFighter #9 Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:42 AM

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View PostJethro_Grey, on 13 February 2018 - 08:05 AM, said:

P2W thread no. 78657756786556678, only 687more and we‘d have as much p2w threads as we have gold-ammo hurts mah tenk whine threads.

 

So, what is it this time? Got wrecked by one or just salty that WG doesn‘t put it on sale and you can‘t join the club? :trollface:

 

actually it was on sale recently, and I chose not to buy it.

well it is a while that WG has moved to make WOT a more P2W game

there was a while you could buy just IS3A or IS6 but they was not better than IS3 which everybody could get one by effort,now there is defender in the same class and nation you can buy and have better chance to win a game, you could buy T34 but it was not better than T32 now you have T26E5 to buy.

at that time T-34-3 did not have current advantage it has now over T-34-2

but, does these means the point I raised is wrong or unnecessary?

I think the point is more clear when comparing two M41s the export one and the original one.

every body can get gold ammo with credits, it's a while you do not have to buy gold ammo with gold, so I am not agree that it is a good example of P2W case

 

 



Cobra6 #10 Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:46 AM

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View PostMegaDeltaFighter, on 13 February 2018 - 04:38 AM, said:

compare M41 bulldog and the export version (which is usually weaker from the original version) M41 90 GF

what you see?

 

better alpha damage and pen. and with higher caliber gun the same dispersion better aim time

with the same armor higher hit-point

with the same size higher camouflage value

with less powerful engine higher max. speed?

why there is such differences just get one reasonable answer: WG pay to win policy

don't you think the same?

 

 

Complete argument made irrelevant since you do not grasp the basic premise that this tank was balanced according to the OLD light tank balancing and wasn't changed due to it being a premium.

 

And according to the OLD light tank balancing this tank was ok.

 

So what have we learned: Do not complain about things you haven't got the first clue about, it makes you look stupid and uninformed.

 

Compared to the new light tank balancing it's very good indeed and because of that fact Wargaming should not sell this light tank again, but Wargaming and rampant greed despite it having a negative effect on the game itself is a combination we've seen many times before.

That being said, due to their lack of armour light tanks can pretty much never be overpowered because they lack the durability to do so. They can be very good in the hands of skilled players for sure since it's the class with the highest skill-cap in the game, not denying that.

 

Cobra 6


Edited by Cobra6, 13 February 2018 - 08:50 AM.


blaster1112 #11 Posted 13 February 2018 - 08:56 AM

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View PostMegaDeltaFighter, on 13 February 2018 - 05:38 AM, said:

compare M41 bulldog and the export version (which is usually weaker from the original version) M41 90 GF

what you see?

 

better alpha damage and pen. and with higher caliber gun the same dispersion better aim time

with the same armor higher hit-point

with the same size higher camouflage value

with less powerful engine higher max. speed?

why there is such differences just get one reasonable answer: WG pay to win policy

don't you think the same?

 

 

Nice biased comparison.

 

You forgot:

M41 uses standard APCR which has a much higher muzzle velocity.

M41 has a much better acceleration due to the much higher power/weight ratio and better ground resistances.

M41 has a much better traverse due to the much higher p/w ratio and better ground resistances

The DPM is close enough. although i admit the M41 90 has the better alpha and penetration.

The m41 has better gun depression (10 degrees vs 8 on the GF) as well as slightly better soft stats on hull movement.

While the M41 has 100 less HP its slightly less prone to ammo rack and engine damage because both modules have slightly more HP.

Can't check camo right now but from what i recall its pretty much the same. (if you run with a camouflage on the M41)

 

Overall both tanks have their strengths. The m41 90 hits harder and can go faster. But it takes much longer to get to speed, not to mention its shots are harder to pull of at long distances. Its also a less capable ridge warrior due to the lower gun depression as well as the lower power/weight and ground resistances. Yes in a 1 on 1 if both tanks hit every shot the 90 will win, but its less likely to hit every shot. So before calling Pay to win you should inform yourself better.

 

source: https://tanks.gg/com...f?t=m41-bulldog

 

 

 



Simeon85 #12 Posted 13 February 2018 - 09:35 AM

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View Postblaster1112, on 13 February 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

 

Nice biased comparison.

 

You forgot:

M41 uses standard APCR which has a much higher muzzle velocity.

M41 has a much better acceleration due to the much higher power/weight ratio and better ground resistances.

M41 has a much better traverse due to the much higher p/w ratio and better ground resistances

The DPM is close enough. although i admit the M41 90 has the better alpha and penetration.

The m41 has better gun depression (10 degrees vs 8 on the GF) as well as slightly better soft stats on hull movement.

While the M41 has 100 less HP its slightly less prone to ammo rack and engine damage because both modules have slightly more HP.

Can't check camo right now but from what i recall its pretty much the same. (if you run with a camouflage on the M41)

 

Overall both tanks have their strengths. The m41 90 hits harder and can go faster. But it takes much longer to get to speed, not to mention its shots are harder to pull of at long distances. Its also a less capable ridge warrior due to the lower gun depression as well as the lower power/weight and ground resistances. Yes in a 1 on 1 if both tanks hit every shot the 90 will win, but its less likely to hit every shot. So before calling Pay to win you should inform yourself better.

 

source: https://tanks.gg/com...f?t=m41-bulldog

 

 

 

 

This basically.

 

The GF is pretty well balanced to the other tier 8 lights, it has some advantages over them and some disadvantages. It's much like the Type 62 in that it was pretty weak under the old MM and the new light tank MM was actually the buff it needed.

 

 



MegaDeltaFighter #13 Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:03 AM

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View PostCobra6, on 13 February 2018 - 08:46 AM, said:

 

Complete argument made irrelevant since you do not grasp the basic premise that this tank was balanced according to the OLD light tank balancing and wasn't changed due to it being a premium.

 

And according to the OLD light tank balancing this tank was ok.

 

So what have we learned: Do not complain about things you haven't got the first clue about, it makes you look stupid and uninformed.

 

Compared to the new light tank balancing it's very good indeed and because of that fact Wargaming should not sell this light tank again, but Wargaming and rampant greed despite it having a negative effect on the game itself is a combination we've seen many times before.

That being said, due to their lack of armour light tanks can pretty much never be overpowered because they lack the durability to do so. They can be very good in the hands of skilled players for sure since it's the class with the highest skill-cap in the game, not denying that.

 

Cobra 6

 

I am not stupid for sure and not as 'uninformed' as you may think , try to talk about the speech instead of  trying to offend the speaker.

well, bulldog  used to be a tier7 light tank, a good one, and M41 90 GF a tier 8

later on WG decided to move it to tier 8, decreed the magazine size at first and while in higher tier they nerfed the max speed as well.

then a new branch of American light tanks  was added, they said they had hard decision to make but anyhow they decided to remove the magazine gun and not to substitute it with a 90mm gun like that of M41 90 GF for example, they just removed the gun, and this is you and new totally nerfed M41 bulldog,

This is the history(uninformed yet?), it is not important how we get there it is important that we have got there, where the game have become more P2W than before.

 

 


Edited by MegaDeltaFighter, 13 February 2018 - 10:05 AM.


blaster1112 #14 Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:13 AM

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^

 

That's just it, the M41 90 may have a marginally better gun. (Mainly due to the harder punch, and the extra pen on it's prem ammo and HE). But in the end it isn't nearly as mobile or as versatile as the regular M41 is right now. The M41 is a much better fighter at long range due to its APCR rounds. It's also better at ridgelines and it can accelerate much faster. Sure the m41 90 has a harder hitting gun, but as I've said before that's not really a gamebreaker. It's different from the m41, and that's a good thing. It has it's own disadvantages and advantages. As a Scout it is undeniably worse as the M41. As the m41 is harder to hit, (acceleration plays a huge role here). And the M41 can fight at long range much more comfortably. 

 

Stop saying this tank is P2W because it really isnt. The alpha increase sure it's nice, but it does come at a reduction of 30% Power to weight and 2 degrees of gun depression as well as 400m/s muzzle velocity. That's some huge things to give up for 70 more alpha (more with HE I know....)  but in the end the higher top speed you won't reach nearly as often so it's not really a factor, in a sprint I rather have the 68 kph that's reached much faster.

 

 



HaZardeur #15 Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:28 AM

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Cobra6 #16 Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:42 AM

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View PostMegaDeltaFighter, on 13 February 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

 

I am not stupid for sure and not as 'uninformed' as you may think , try to talk about the speech instead of  trying to offend the speaker.

well, bulldog  used to be a tier7 light tank, a good one, and M41 90 GF a tier 8

later on WG decided to move it to tier 8, decreed the magazine size at first and while in higher tier they nerfed the max speed as well.

then a new branch of American light tanks  was added, they said they had hard decision to make but anyhow they decided to remove the magazine gun and not to substitute it with a 90mm gun like that of M41 90 GF for example, they just removed the gun, and this is you and new totally nerfed M41 bulldog,

This is the history(uninformed yet?), it is not important how we get there it is important that we have got there, where the game have become more P2W than before.

 

 

 

Wargaming has been doing this for years mate, whenever there is a mid-tier tank that is fun to play and makes money, they either nerf it into the ground or blatantly remove it. They don't want you to keep playing mid tiers and make a profit.

 

We've seen it in the T-28 (when it had the 85mm), the Pz4 with the L/70, the SU-85 with the 105, KV with the 152mm, VK2801 with the 10,5, SP1C with the 3 shot gun, 59-16 with the autoloader, Bulldog with the 10 shot autoloader, VK3601 with the Konish etc.

It's got nothing to do with Pay-2-Win, they just don't want you to truly have fun in mid-tiers and make a comfortable profit.

 

Cobra 6



arthurwellsley #17 Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:46 AM

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So in answer to the OP question, no none of us think the same as you.

You are wrong in your analysis that the M41 90GF is pay2win because you fail to deal with all the issues set out by blaster when he more fairly ways up the pro's and con's of the M41 and the M41 90GF. Blaster's analysis proves the OP wrong.



pudelikael #18 Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:53 AM

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M41 GF need better engine

 

edit: this tank is very very bad


Edited by GeneralBrezhnev, 13 February 2018 - 04:07 PM.


ederfe #19 Posted 13 February 2018 - 10:56 AM

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The tier 5 M41 needs faster aimtime!!1! :hiding:

MegaDeltaFighter #20 Posted 13 February 2018 - 11:05 AM

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View Postarthurwellsley, on 13 February 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

So in answer to the OP question, no none of us think the same as you.

You are wrong in your analysis that the M41 90GF is pay2win because you fail to deal with all the issues set out by blaster when he more fairly ways up the pro's and con's of the M41 and the M41 90GF. Blaster's analysis proves the OP wrong.

 

compare T26E5 with T32, compare IS3 with defender you'll find some pro's and con's but no one says T26E5 is not more powerful or defender,

yes there is pro's and con's I saw them when comparing the two M41s, 

you can not get 2 body thinking the same every body has his/her own thought and they are different even though slightly but they are different. 

that does not mean necessarily some one is right or wrong, I do not want you think the same way as I do,

as I see almost all players agree that considering all pro's and con's M41 90 GF is more powerful, I believe it is much more powerful

give the bulldog a 90mm gun as M41 90 GF has, they become more even.

while the 90mm gun is heavier the hp/t of bulldog with this gun will decrees, it can have the same ammo so no standard apcr on this gun and etc.

 

 

 

 






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