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T67 needs a major nerf

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FluffyRedFox #41 Posted 16 February 2018 - 02:34 PM

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I don't see why it can't be removed and have the Wolverine take its place. 

Baldrickk #42 Posted 16 February 2018 - 02:44 PM

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All tanks are better with more skilled crews.

 

An example of this is the Cromwell vs the Cromwell Berlin:

The better players have probably played the Cromwell a lot post elite too, so that's why they balance out - or they are playing it at their limit from the get go.  We can focus more on the lower end of the WR curve.

The Berlin gives average (~50% players a 2% higher WR than they get in the Cromwell)

 

Hmm...   How does that compare to the T67?

 

As it happens, we can just throw that in there too:

 

The curve sort of follows, and is indeed worse than the standard Cromwell over the normal player range.  Even with all the seal-clubbers adding to the result.

I think we can put this to rest now. The T67 isn't in the sort of position where we really have to be concerned.



Dava_117 #43 Posted 16 February 2018 - 02:56 PM

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View PostGeno1isme, on 16 February 2018 - 02:25 PM, said:

 

Wolverine simply doesn't have that insane camo and mobility, also worse dispersion softstats, so it's not as flexible. I'd rather not convert the T67 into a Wolverine clone though. Easiest option would be to simply remove the 76mm gun from it, but then it should really be reclassified as a light, so not the best option.

 

Well, not as worst. Actually Wolverine has better accuracy (0.36 vs 0.39) and pretty similar soft stat (0.22 vs 0.20 in both moving and hull traverse and 0.12 vs 0.08 in turret traverse). It has also better dispersion after fire, so it can use it's DPM more reliably. It also has 370 VR vs 340 from T67. So it's actually better both in using DPM and in locating enemy tanks. The only thing in wich T67 is greatly superior is mobility, so it's also the factor that probably make it so OP. Nerfing hull traverse may be enought to limit it's sealclubbing potential without touching the movement speed.

dimethylcadmium #44 Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:08 PM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 16 February 2018 - 10:14 AM, said:

I think the other tier 4 TDs are at least as fast as the T67 with their pew pew guns.

 

 

T67 is faster than Tier 5 light tanks, let alone Tier 4 tank destroyers (Marder 38T is fast but still miles behind T67)

 

on topic yes T67 is OP as fuark, when compared to other Tier 5 TD's. 

 

 



Mr_Beefy #45 Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:11 PM

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The thing WG needs to do is to change the entire meta in tier 1-3 and remove the auto-machine gun tanks machine guns.  M2 Lights have replaced the T18's, and clips that can wipe out a tier 2 tank without the ability to do anything about it (especially the M2 Lights with premium ammo, the current seal clubbing special) or T7 CC's or Light Vic's that can clip 2 tier 2's with 1 clip are destructive.

New players learn nothing about the game while clicking auto aim and spraying and praying.  Seal Clubbers that get off on a 3k wn8 with 2k games in an M2 Light are even worse.  Most of the tanks in low tier have single shot guns, and new players should learn the basics at low tier.   Let's see seal clubbers get a 3k wn8 while using the single shot's  on M2 Light.

 

The T67 is also a problem due to it having an insane camo rating with a great gun for it's tier.  A solution for it would be to Turan III it.  As in, reduce it's ammo capacity so that the max damage the tank can deal would be 2500.  Plus reducing it's view range to tier 2-3 levels.  This would make it far less interesting for stat padders.



Baldrickk #46 Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:25 PM

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Just played against this team:

Obviously the Alecto is as OP as F* and needs an even harder nerf than the T67, which is why the team lists are filled with them.

(yes, we lost most of our team as well, including me)

 

I myself, (in mine, but with poor crew) did 1400 dmg.  Which is a lot, but then again, the very next game, on Himmelsdorf (mid tier) in an ARL V39 with crew that are within a few % of being the same skilled, walked away with 2.2k dmg.  And the ARL is terrible, and on a map that doesn't suit it. So...

 

Oh yeah, and that's forgetting the first game in my T67 today where I was spotted at the start by a rushing light tank, and sniped from their spawn by an O-I


Edited by Baldrickk, 16 February 2018 - 03:59 PM.


Rati_Festa #47 Posted 16 February 2018 - 04:07 PM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 16 February 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

Have you heard of minmaxing?

Something can appear OP without actually being so, simply because it is being used in a manner that suits it.

 

So you have a 7 skill PzIV? Arguably the second most popular non premium seal clubber at tier 5, and you're going to take it out.

What are you going to do if/when there are no sealclubbing T67s in the battle.  Suicide?

I can guarantee that the vast minority of the players you will be hunting down will have vastly poorer crews than you. 

 

Yes I know what min/maxing is.

 

Your next statement is irrelevant as the combination of tank/crew/exp still makes them OP does it not? Just like me in my PZ IV... I'm just returning the favour back to them.

 

There are always t67's in a t5 game... as you can see from my stats I've played about 331 games in the PZ IV, the 7 skill crew weren't originally from that tank. My average tier play for all time is 7.43 my recent 1k games is 8.73.... I clearly don't seal club on a regular basis.

 

I and I'm sure you have met numerous heroes in t67s with 2k + games in that tank sometimes in platoons of like minded players and they love spamming gold into noobs. I love spamming HE at them and having the nice chats afterwards :)

 

 


Edited by Rati_Festa, 16 February 2018 - 04:08 PM.


Geno1isme #48 Posted 16 February 2018 - 04:48 PM

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View PostDava_117, on 16 February 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

Well, not as worst. Actually Wolverine has better accuracy (0.36 vs 0.39) and pretty similar soft stat (0.22 vs 0.20 in both moving and hull traverse and 0.12 vs 0.08 in turret traverse). It has also better dispersion after fire, so it can use it's DPM more reliably. It also has 370 VR vs 340 from T67. So it's actually better both in using DPM and in locating enemy tanks. The only thing in wich T67 is greatly superior is mobility, so it's also the factor that probably make it so OP. Nerfing hull traverse may be enought to limit it's sealclubbing potential without touching the movement speed.

Well, we all know how relevant "accuracy" is in this game. And 0.12 vs. 0.08 is a 50% difference, quite a bit away from "pretty similar" (0.08 is what the T62A has, 0.12 is more like STB-1). While the viewrange is limited on the T67 you can still easily boost it to over 400m with just optics, and way over 450m with binos, so it's also far from blind. And it has the better camo values on top (fully-pimped it gets 20m extra "protection" against 400m viewrange outside of any bush).

But yeah, mobility is the biggest difference, especially the backwards speed and acceleration: It has a much better chance to fall back behind a ridgeline and evade enemy fire when taking shots than the Wolverine



Baldrickk #49 Posted 16 February 2018 - 04:55 PM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 16 February 2018 - 04:07 PM, said:

 

Yes I know what min/maxing is.

 

Your next statement is irrelevant as the combination of tank/crew/exp still makes them OP does it not? Just like me in my PZ IV... I'm just returning the favour back to them.

 

There are always t67's in a t5 game... as you can see from my stats I've played about 331 games in the PZ IV, the 7 skill crew weren't originally from that tank. My average tier play for all time is 7.43 my recent 1k games is 8.73.... I clearly don't seal club on a regular basis.

 

I and I'm sure you have met numerous heroes in t67s with 2k + games in that tank sometimes in platoons of like minded players and they love spamming gold into noobs. I love spamming HE at them and having the nice chats afterwards :)

 

 

 

I accused you of clubbing, not stat-padding...

 

And I don't use XVM now, but yes, I did see plenty of T67s with many games back then.  But it definitely was not every game.



Ziurawka #50 Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:07 PM

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Guys please, who cares nowadays anyway. 

The leopard is a better tank in the current map rotation, at least more often than not. 

T67 needs wide open maps to thrive, the time when small alpha TDs with camo nets were kings is long gone.

Sure you can carry hard if you roll Prokho and no one counters you, but just how often does it happen?

 

It's the same story arguably as with E25. Despite having intensely warm feelings towards both those machines I don't drive them as often as I'd like to. 

Because of being constantly "rebalanced" by a corridor map I feel like a bee in a jar in them.



KillingJoker #51 Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:35 PM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 16 February 2018 - 03:25 PM, said:

Just played against this team:

Obviously the Alecto is as OP as F* and needs an even harder nerf than the T67, which is why the team lists are filled with them.

(yes, we lost most of our team as well, including me)

 

I myself, (in mine, but with poor crew) did 1400 dmg.  Which is a lot, but then again, the very next game, on Himmelsdorf (mid tier) in an ARL V39 with crew that are within a few % of being the same skilled, walked away with 2.2k dmg.  And the ARL is terrible, and on a map that doesn't suit it. So...

 

Oh yeah, and that's forgetting the first game in my T67 today where I was spotted at the start by a rushing light tank, and sniped from their spawn by an O-I

 

that stug III B is a muppet, for having zero dmg

 

i a match maker like that, i would had scored at least 1k dmg with 3 or 4 shells... 

 

 



Baldrickk #52 Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:52 PM

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View PostKillingJoker, on 16 February 2018 - 05:35 PM, said:

 

that stug III B is a muppet, for having zero dmg

 

i a match maker like that, i would had scored at least 1k dmg with 3 or 4 shells... 

 

 

Yeah. And he was one if the last to die too.

 

N spawn of widepark. Sat in the bushes next to the cap all game, got spotted and then died so fast that I didn't have time to shoot him. (He had been spotted by a light much earlier, but hadn't taken any damage until then.)



Rati_Festa #53 Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:52 PM

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View PostBaldrickk, on 16 February 2018 - 04:55 PM, said:

 

I accused you of clubbing, not stat-padding...

 

And I don't use XVM now, but yes, I did see plenty of T67s with many games back then.  But it definitely was not every game.

 

I never mentioned stat padding.

 

As for clubbing, I suppose that depends on your point of view. Using a tank solo occasionally ( 300 games out of 38K ) to purposefully hunt "aggressive" seal clubbers in platoons ( high percentage of overall games in T67 ). I personally don't think it is clubbing as I am targeting ****'s who ruin the game for newer players. I spam the bushes where they hide with HE, focus them when I have multiple targets, general advise the team how to deal with them etc etc

 

Its very therapeutic.

 

Had a look at your stats.... interesting top 2 tanks played are a T4 ( luchs )  and T5 ( ELC ) that scream SEAL CLUBBER to me.... :) I understand now why your so defensive about the t67, I appear to have touched a nerve.

 

My early days playing were mainly in T7 where the enemies bite back harder and the enemy crews have at least reached 100%

 



Baldrickk #54 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:21 PM

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View PostRati_Festa, on 16 February 2018 - 05:52 PM, said:

 

I never mentioned stat padding.

 

As for clubbing, I suppose that depends on your point of view. Using a tank solo occasionally ( 300 games out of 38K ) to purposefully hunt "aggressive" seal clubbers in platoons ( high percentage of overall games in T67 ). I personally don't think it is clubbing as I am targeting ****'s who ruin the game for newer players. I spam the bushes where they hide with HE, focus them when I have multiple targets, general advise the team how to deal with them etc etc

 

Its very therapeutic.

 

Had a look at your stats.... interesting top 2 tanks played are a T4 ( luchs )  and T5 ( ELC ) that scream SEAL CLUBBER to me.... :) I understand now why your so defensive about the t67, I appear to have touched a nerve.

 

My early days playing were mainly in T7 where the enemies bite back harder and the enemy crews have at least reached 100%

 

The majority of battles in my Luchs were when it saw tier 8s.

It was my first tier 4 and remains my favourite tank. It has its own original crew that have never been trained into another vehicle and have far, far, far less experienced crew than the ones in your Pz with their 7 skills. The total number of battles is still far less than the over 5000 you have in the E25 held by many to be OP.

My oldest tier 4 tank, and one that I have kept and play for fun accounts for ~5% of my total games played.

 

Almost all my battles in the ELC are from when it saw tier 9. A bunch more from when it only saw tier 8, and since the nerf I've played maybe 5 battles.

 

My Chaffee saw the majority of its battles when it saw Battle Tier 12, which is a foreign concept to the majority of the playerbase now.

 

You fail to mention that with only about 30 battles less than the ELC sits a tier 9 light tank, a tank that is much, much newer. 

 

I'll admit to all that, and when I do take my Luchs out from time to time (and I do, the occasional game in it is a good stress reliever) I'll admit that i am most definitely clubbing seals most of the time (or maybe I should claim that I'm hunting sealclubbers)

 

Anyway, to deal with the actual content of your post:

 

Seal clubbing: going to the low tiers, and facing off against players who are new to the game with your vood personal skill, and fully upgraded tanks with skilled crew.

 

Stat padding: picking tanks in which you can perform at a greater apparent level than your real ability and playing them over and over (a significant % of all battles played) to boost your stats. 

 

They are not mutually exclusive. 

 

The guys you are claiming to hunt are stat-padders, and maybe sealclubbers too.  

By taking your 7 skill crew to tier 5, that's seal clubbing, though not stat padding unless you decide to do it all the time. 



OreH75 #55 Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:57 PM

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View PostRenesco, on 16 February 2018 - 03:47 AM, said:

A sizable portion of tier 4, 5 and 6 matches are dominated by T67s. Invisible T67s driven by some guy with 1,000 to 2,000 matches in the thing. The fact that they're so popular and can turn matches so easily means they're hugely OP. They've crazy camouflage and an insanely good gun. Nerf hard please.

 

AH dont cry please, some people sealclub at tier 5 other at tier 2 or 3 with their OP Marder or Tetrach..I think they should get nerved as well.

Edited by OreH75, 16 February 2018 - 09:59 PM.


MR_FIAT #56 Posted 17 February 2018 - 12:58 AM

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View PostOreH75, on 16 February 2018 - 09:57 PM, said:

 

AH dont cry please, some people sealclub at tier 5 other at tier 2 or 3 with their OP Marder or Tetrach..I think they should get nerved as well.

 

tetrarch isnt realy as OP as M2 light.

dimethylcadmium #57 Posted 17 February 2018 - 01:07 AM

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View PostMR_FIAT, on 17 February 2018 - 12:58 AM, said:

 

tetrarch isnt realy as OP as M2 light.

 

Depends on the player and the map/situation. A bush fapping Tetrarch is a turreted TD, at close range it's vulnerable to autocannons and machine guns. M2 Light is a tier 2 Pz.I C with good armor for tier 2. It's useless at long range because the machine gun cant connect all shots. 

 

The verdict is both are OP, it's just they excel at different playstyles. 



Renesco #58 Posted 17 February 2018 - 01:20 AM

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View PostMR_FIAT, on 17 February 2018 - 12:58 AM, said:

 

tetrarch isnt realy as OP as M2 light.

 

It used to be hella OP 6 or 7 years ago when I played it, same as the Marder II, back then it had a .27 gun and 450m view range and maps weren't all corridors and convenient shot-blockers.

Darth_Yoda #59 Posted 17 February 2018 - 01:42 AM

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View PostRenesco, on 17 February 2018 - 12:20 AM, said:

 

It used to be hella OP 6 or 7 years ago when I played it, same as the Marder II, back then it had a .27 gun and 450m view range and maps weren't all corridors and convenient shot-blockers.

 

450 m view range Tetrarch 6 years ago? :facepalm:    It didnt have max view range even with binoculars, never. Tetrach good point was high penetration gun , which countered  sealclubers with  T18 or MicroMaus.

Renesco #60 Posted 17 February 2018 - 02:18 AM

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View PostDarth_Yoda, on 17 February 2018 - 01:42 AM, said:

 

450 m view range Tetrarch 6 years ago? :facepalm:    It didnt have max view range even with binoculars, never. Tetrach good point was high penetration gun , which countered  sealclubers with  T18 or MicroMaus.

 

No the Marder had 450 view range, they basically nerfed the Marder II and added the French Fcm36 Pak40 in its place as a premium, then realised it was stupidly OP and stopped selling it altogether. The tetrarch always had bad view range but it used to have a far more accurate gun and they eventually nerfed it.





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