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Is 5% Gold at Tier 8 true?

5% Gold Tier 8 studie

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Frankenstein_42 #1 Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:37 PM

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Hey Guys!

 

Wg said that over all shots fired in the game only 5% are Premium (gold) ammunition.

That might be true but the interesting question is, whats the number at the higher tiers.

And I watched 50 random battles uploaded to wotreplays.com. I just picked the first 10 battles for each class of vehicles in the game.

I did count all shots fired from the uploader and all received hits (team-dmg including). Clanwars not counted!!!

The numbers I came to:

Without Arty: ~18%

With Arty: ~16.5%

 

All datas from the games in the exel sheet.

"Goldspamrate" from different classes also in the exel sheet.

In the txt-documents are the links to everyreplay.

 

Misstakes could be possible.

 

Sincerly

Frankenstein_42

Attached Files

  • Attached File   links-arty.txt   667bytes
  • Attached File   links-heavys.txt   639bytes
  • Attached File   links-meds.txt   685bytes
  • Attached File   links-lights.txt   662bytes
  • Attached File   links-tds.txt   672bytes
  • Attached File   exact datas.xlsx   10.15K

Edited by Frankenstein_42, 16 February 2018 - 05:39 PM.


ortega456 #2 Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:57 PM

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5% was the result if you take all the Pz. Ic and low tier 100shots/per magazine autoloaders into account. Just a way for WG to skew the statistics towards their agenda.

Strappster #3 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:01 PM

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Did you also count the replays that had been uploaded because they earned the player an ace or MoE or completed a mission, where the use of gold can be significantly higher because every shot counts?

 

Pulling a bunch of replays off a site where they're uploaded for the purpose of showing off the result skews the dataset before you've even started your analysis. You need genuinely random battles from players who aren't trying for anything in particular and even then you're not necessarily going to see a true representation because of players like me, who'll grind through a lower gun using only gold ammo to hasten getting a better one. And I know I'm not the only player to do that.

 

Without such a broad dataset, your results are as meaningless as WG's claim that only 5% of the ammo fired is gold, although at least WG has access to server data. Some players won't care anyway because in their view, WG are always economical with the truth. 

 

View Postortega456, on 16 February 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

5% was the result if you take all the Pz. Ic and low tier 100shots/per magazine autoloaders into account. Just a way for WG to skew the statistics towards their agenda.

 

See? That was posted just as I finished typing the previous sentence. :rolleyes:

 



Thuis001 #4 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:02 PM

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Yeah. I believe that in total about 5% of the rounds is gold, but as Jingles showed in his video today on Tier VIII something like 50% is more the case. Why can both be true? Well simply because if i play a game in the Pz I C, I generally fire more rounds on my own that two entire teams in a tier VIII Match together. And given that on those tiers players generally don't spam gold, there you have your 5%



JocMeister #5 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:06 PM

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Obviously that is complete BS from WGs part. They know it and everyone that plays the game knows it. I guess they don´t want to admit to the public they have lost all control over gold ammo usage.

 

Why do you think we have seen the retarded armor buffs lately? Because 5% of the shots are gold ammo?



Thuis001 #6 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:07 PM

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There is only one way to get a fair and balanced overview of the amount of gold spam. We need a sufficient amount of the WoT population (on EU in this case) to contribute with this, then we need someone to make a easy to install/run "Mod" which notes the different types of ammo shot at different classes at each tier. And which then sends this data to a database, for example a spreadsheet or something. Once we have a large enough sample size, I am talking MILIONS of games here, we get a decent view at what the percentage of gold ammo fired at each tier is. Till then we can only guess and make expectations. I think that a fair guess is something like 20-50% on tier VIII and IX while probably something like 50-60% on tier X.

Frankenstein_42 #7 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:14 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 16 February 2018 - 05:01 PM, said:

Did you also count the replays that had been uploaded because they earned the player an ace or MoE or completed a mission, where the use of gold can be significantly higher because every shot counts?

 

Pulling a bunch of replays off a site where they're uploaded for the purpose of showing off the result skews the dataset before you've even started your analysis. You need genuinely random battles from players who aren't trying for anything in particular and even then you're not necessarily going to see a true representation because of players like me, who'll grind through a lower gun using only gold ammo to hasten getting a better one. And I know I'm not the only player to do that.

 

Without such a broad dataset, your results are as meaningless as WG's claim that only 5% of the ammo fired is gold, although at least WG has access to server data. Some players won't care anyway because in their view, WG are always economical with the truth. 

 

 

See? That was posted just as I finished typing the previous sentence. :rolleyes:

 

 

I filtered for tier 8 tanks and then the class took the first 10 replays and thats it.

I know that that with MoE and so is true but you can also do the math yourself and just count all the shots he received and then you get your number as well ;)



Frankenstein_42 #8 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:15 PM

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View PostThuis001, on 16 February 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

Yeah. I believe that in total about 5% of the rounds is gold, but as Jingles showed in his video today on Tier VIII something like 50% is more the case. Why can both be true? Well simply because if i play a game in the Pz I C, I generally fire more rounds on my own that two entire teams in a tier VIII Match together. And given that on those tiers players generally don't spam gold, there you have your 5%

 

I know but i did this tier 8 only so some have a ruff estimation and a ruff number (jingles video was the spirit for this ;))

Frankenstein_42 #9 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:16 PM

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View PostThuis001, on 16 February 2018 - 05:07 PM, said:

There is only one way to get a fair and balanced overview of the amount of gold spam. We need a sufficient amount of the WoT population (on EU in this case) to contribute with this, then we need someone to make a easy to install/run "Mod" which notes the different types of ammo shot at different classes at each tier. And which then sends this data to a database, for example a spreadsheet or something. Once we have a large enough sample size, I am talking MILIONS of games here, we get a decent view at what the percentage of gold ammo fired at each tier is. Till then we can only guess and make expectations. I think that a fair guess is something like 20-50% on tier VIII and IX while probably something like 50-60% on tier X.

 

I would actually settle with 12-25% in tier 8. but the other arguments are true

Frankenstein_42 #10 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:17 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 16 February 2018 - 05:01 PM, said:

Did you also count the replays that had been uploaded because they earned the player an ace or MoE or completed a mission, where the use of gold can be significantly higher because every shot counts?

 

Pulling a bunch of replays off a site where they're uploaded for the purpose of showing off the result skews the dataset before you've even started your analysis. You need genuinely random battles from players who aren't trying for anything in particular and even then you're not necessarily going to see a true representation because of players like me, who'll grind through a lower gun using only gold ammo to hasten getting a better one. And I know I'm not the only player to do that.

 

Without such a broad dataset, your results are as meaningless as WG's claim that only 5% of the ammo fired is gold, although at least WG has access to server data. Some players won't care anyway because in their view, WG are always economical with the truth. 

 

 

See? That was posted just as I finished typing the previous sentence. :rolleyes:

 

 

btw (you can look it yourself) i never catched one who just had gold in his loadout 

Strappster #11 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:23 PM

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View PostFrankenstein_42, on 16 February 2018 - 05:17 PM, said:

btw (you can look it yourself) i never catched one who just had gold in his loadout 

 

What does that show? That no one who uploaded a replay that you happened to download was only carrying gold? I thought this 5% was about the amount fired, not the amount carried.

 

I appreciate that you're referring to my point about only carrying gold when I'm grinding but unless I had a truly exceptional battle, I'm not going to bother uploading the replay. These days I'm more likely to carry a fairly balanced ammo load anyway, I'd rather get used to swapping ammo as required by the target - it's better to get used to doing that rather than starting each battle with, "herp derp I don't need to press 2-2 because I don't carry anything in 1 lol". Every credit counts, it's probably Brexit or something. ;)



Frankenstein_42 #12 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:29 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 16 February 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

 

What does that show? That no one who uploaded a replay that you happened to download was only carrying gold? I thought this 5% was about the amount fired, not the amount carried.

 

I appreciate that you're referring to my point about only carrying gold when I'm grinding but unless I had a truly exceptional battle, I'm not going to bother uploading the replay. These days I'm more likely to carry a fairly balanced ammo load anyway, I'd rather get used to swapping ammo as required by the target - it's better to get used to doing that rather than starting each battle with, "herp derp I don't need to press 2-2 because I don't carry anything in 1 lol". Every credit counts, it's probably Brexit or something. ;)

 

no i just counted fired and when you look at the stats then you see that only 1-2player shot more gold but you will also so that about 8+ players didnt fire a gold round so I think it shouldnt be that far away from the correct number but as I said you can calculate yourself what the amount of gold-spam percentage is without the shots of the uploader 

Strappster #13 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:37 PM

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View PostFrankenstein_42, on 16 February 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

no i just counted fired and when you look at the stats then you see that only 1-2player shot more gold but you will also so that about 8+ players didnt fire a gold round so I think it shouldnt be that far away from the correct number but as I said you can calculate yourself what the amount of gold-spam percentage is without the shots of the uploader 

 

Oh good, I could get my own results from a dataset I've already said I consider worthless. Or I could scratch my arse, which is going to be more satisfying in both the short and long term.

 

I'll let you work out which of those is the most likely outcome of this discussion, you're so keen on that sort of thing.



Frankenstein_42 #14 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:45 PM

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View PostStrappster, on 16 February 2018 - 05:37 PM, said:

 

Oh good, I could get my own results from a dataset I've already said I consider worthless. Or I could scratch my arse, which is going to be more satisfying in both the short and long term.

 

I'll let you work out which of those is the most likely outcome of this discussion, you're so keen on that sort of thing.

 

i think you don't know what i mean

if you like you can take a shots received (not fired) and calculate from those the goldnumber so you don't consider those players who uploaded it to wotreplays.com



Balc0ra #15 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:46 PM

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View PostJocMeister, on 16 February 2018 - 06:06 PM, said:

Obviously that is complete BS from WGs part. They know it and everyone that plays the game knows it. I guess they don´t want to admit to the public they have lost all control over gold ammo usage.

 

Why do you think we have seen the retarded armor buffs lately? Because 5% of the shots are gold ammo?

 

That's across all tiers on the server, not on one tier. As they had a detailed list of tanks and tiers, not just a % number for the server for those that did bother to read it. And the higher you went, the bigger the % was. And that value was based on a pr shell value on a gold to normal ammo ratio on all the tanks in the game. Lower tiers have rapid fire clip guns that use 2-300 rounds a game dragging the average way down vs a Type 5 that might get 8 out on a good game. As it costs 500 000 to fill up the T2 Light with 100% gold ammo. So I doubt many wastes 20K on a clip to kill a tier II. So there it was 0 to 1% on most of tanks. Tier 5-7 had 0 to 8% in most of them since some there can't use gold ammo even like the St.Emil. Add that up vs tier 8+ and it gets to a 5% average.

 

Tho it's no secret that tier 8's had a 10 to 15% usage, but most of them did go past 20%, inc the 175 pen IS-6 etc. Tier 9 had mostly 15 to 25% and some in the 30% area like the 201 pen T-54 etc. But tier X had a 30 to 40% usage on most of them. Not many there was below 20%. Tho tanks like the Type 5 and 183 that has more alpha on gold ammo, it was ofc close to 50%. If they said tier 8+ only. It would be close to 25%. Not 5%. As it increases the higher you go.

 

Tho on my high tier grinds on tier 8+. At least 70% of the gold ammo used on me are from guns that can pen me even on a low roll. Like 330 HEAT on my ELC even 90. Or close to 400 pen vs my T-10, as their 310 normal pen is clearly not enough for my paper hull. So most of it is just waste vs actually needed.


Edited by Balc0ra, 16 February 2018 - 06:48 PM.


Tr0gledyte #16 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:48 PM

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I think this is nonsense, especially at tier 8 where you need prem ammo to pen a lot of armored tanks. I used to carry only a few prem shells back in the good old days, now I often carry 25-50% prem depending on the tank and I fire them as needed. Very often, firing prem means a 90% chance to pen instead of a 50% chance.. So I'd be handicapping myself if I don't fire it even if regular ammo can pen.

 

If I have 200 pen I can fire regular ammo at a T-54 hull and bounce a lot, or I can load prem and pen him almost every time.. Also reduces the need to aim which increases damage output.

 

The worst thing WG ever did was make premium ammo available for credits. Before they did that, almost no one ever used premium ammo and the game was a lot more fun (also slower paced). People would carry a few shells for emergencies but almost never use them because clicking your left mouse button and shooting real money kinda hurts.


Edited by Tr0gledyte, 16 February 2018 - 06:52 PM.


Balc0ra #17 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:54 PM

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View PostTr0gledyte, on 16 February 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

I think this is nonsense, especially at tier 8 where you need gold to pen a lot of armored tanks. I used to carry only a few gold shells back in the good old days, now I often carry 25-50% gold depending on the tank and I fire them as needed. Very often, firing gold means a 90% chance to pen instead of a 50% chance.. So I'd be handicapping myself if I don't fire it even if regular ammo can pen.

 

I still only carry 5 on my IS-6 and T26E4. Still gets the job done. As I really don't go the HT line if I can't pen anything, and in a group, flank fire still works. 5 is usually enough for late game. Only tank I have a 50/50 on is the Matilda IV and 183 now that the ammo load is increased. AP is more reliable on that vs most targets anyway.

 

But someone made mod that counted how many hits from arty they had taken, and how much damage they had taken in that sessions. Popular with streamers for a while. All that mod showed that they did take way less damage they they moaned about. And did not even have a 1 hit average pr game most days.

 

Why no one has made a gold counter mod yet? That counts damage taken from it vs total damage. And how much you have used back etc. That would be interesting to compare results on a high tier session.



Strappster #18 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:58 PM

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View PostFrankenstein_42, on 16 February 2018 - 05:45 PM, said:

i think you don't know what i mean

if you like you can take a shots received (not fired) and calculate from those the goldnumber so you don't consider those players who uploaded it to wotreplays.com

 

I know exactly what you mean and I've told you why I'm not going to bother. I appreciate you don't agree with my reasoning but that doesn't mean that I don't understand what you mean, it means I think you're wrong. It's up to you how you deal with that but I've said my part, I'm not going to change my mind because you think I should look at a broken dataset in a slightly different way.



Tr0gledyte #19 Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:59 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 16 February 2018 - 06:54 PM, said:

 

I still only carry 5 on my IS-6 and T26E4. Still gets the job done. As I really don't go the HT line if I can't pen anything, and in a group, flank fire still works. 5 is usually enough for late game. Only tank I have a 50/50 on is the Matilda IV and 183 now that the ammo load is increased. AP is more reliable on that vs most targets anyway.

 

But someone made mod that counted how many hits from arty they had taken, and how much damage they had taken in that sessions. Popular with streamers for a while. All that mod showed that they did take way less damage they they moaned about. And did not even have a 1 hit average pr game most days.

 

Why no one has made a gold counter mod yet? That counts damage taken from it vs total damage. And how much you have used back etc. That would be interesting to compare results on a high tier session.

 

What about, uh, I don't know..  many of the tier 8-9 heavies and some mediums? Even your IS-6's APCR struggles with some of them.

 

I know the game is playable without using a lot of gold ammo but the fact is you do a lot better if you use more of it.



Element6_TheSprout #20 Posted 16 February 2018 - 07:09 PM

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View PostJocMeister, on 16 February 2018 - 06:06 PM, said:

Obviously that is complete BS from WGs part. They know it and everyone that plays the game knows it. I guess they don´t want to admit to the public they have lost all control over gold ammo usage.

 

Why do you think we have seen the retarded armor buffs lately? Because 5% of the shots are gold ammo?

It's not BS if what they said was 5% of all shots fired in the game are premium shells, the bias exists within the players that write off low tiers as something they do not bother with. The statement is probably quite accurate, the inaccuracy occurs when people take that statement and read something between the lines that simply isn't there.

 

If they had said 5% of all shots fired in each tier are premium shells, then you could of course call BS and be totally correct.

 

It's like when one players says "I like the Defender", and then some muppet replies "Oh, so you think the Defender is good for the game do you?". That is not what the first person said at all. He said nothing about the game, he spoke solely of wether he liked the tank or not. I, for example, like the Chi-Ri tank, but that doesn't mean I think it is a good tank.

 

You can't call someone a liar if you totally fail to comprehend what he said in the first place.






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