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[SUGGESTION] Playing with "incomplete crews"

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WindSplitter1 #1 Posted 16 February 2018 - 10:16 PM

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"The Light Tank M24 carried a crew of four; commander, gunner, driver and assistant driver, the latter moving up into the turret and serving as loader when the tank was in action.

 

It was, of course, also possible to have a permanent five-man crew when manpower allowed. The layout was normal, with a driving compartment in the front, fighting compartment in the center and engine compartment in the rear. Dual controls were provided, one for the driver and one for the assistant driver to be used in an emergency."

 

Sauce: http://www.tanks-enc...M24_Chaffee.php


 

My point is... some vehicles do not required, in the past, to have full crew members in order to be safely and effectively operated. The above example refers to our in-game Chaffee tank but this also expands to others, like the premium Type 64, which appears on Wikipedia as having 4 members, rather than 5.

 

The role that would be affected by this is the Radio Operator, no other role.

 

For example...

Crew incomplete - Cannot join battle

 

Ready for battle! - Sufficient crew members

 

This would spare the player of slowing down crew training for a member that won't follow the rest of the line and would allow the player to play their favourite tanks, on top of being more historically accurate.

 

Skill-wise, it would depend on the tank so, players would have to accept whatever penalties associated with the Radio Operator being absent, thus being perfectly "balanced" in giving the player advantages and disadvantages.

 

 

 

If this is a repost, just ignore it though.



OreH75 #2 Posted 16 February 2018 - 11:24 PM

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You can use an untrained crew member from another tank so whats the problem?

yun9 #3 Posted 16 February 2018 - 11:26 PM

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What's the point of this when a 50% crew member can be recruited for free and should realistically make the tank perform better than without one

dimethylcadmium #4 Posted 17 February 2018 - 12:03 AM

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View Postyun9, on 16 February 2018 - 11:26 PM, said:

What's the point of this when a 50% crew member can be recruited for free and should realistically make the tank perform better than without one

 

#1 overall eu but 907 only 2 marks 

 

on topic i agree with that you said



yun9 #5 Posted 17 February 2018 - 01:51 AM

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View Postdimethylcadmium, on 17 February 2018 - 12:03 AM, said:

 

#1 overall eu but 907 only 2 marks 

 

on topic i agree with that you said

 

I've been on 94 several times. Go try it, the mark requirements are insane at 6,4k avg combined per game to go up at that point - but I'll do it eventually. Just takes a while to sustain good enough streaks like that for that long



dimethylcadmium #6 Posted 17 February 2018 - 02:03 AM

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View Postyun9, on 17 February 2018 - 01:51 AM, said:

 

I've been on 94 several times. Go try it, the mark requirements are insane at 6,4k avg combined per game to go up at that point - but I'll do it eventually. Just takes a while to sustain good enough streaks like that for that long

 

good luck, i know i'm only capable of 2-marking it, i'm a good player but not "3 marking CW tanks" level of good

WindSplitter1 #7 Posted 17 February 2018 - 11:00 AM

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View PostOreH75, on 16 February 2018 - 10:24 PM, said:

You can use an untrained crew member from another tank so whats the problem?

 

I don't think you guys understood what I meant to say...

 

In the Chinese WZ-132-1 you have 4 crew members. on the Type 64, you have 5, when historically (read: according to Wikipedia), 4 seemed to be sufficient.

 

Having the Radio Operator becoming optional on the latter would speed up the crew training process. :)

 

Yes, having a full complement would help the vehicle perform better but slows down training.

 


Edited by WindSplitter1, 17 February 2018 - 11:02 AM.


TacticusMK2 #8 Posted 17 February 2018 - 11:36 AM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 17 February 2018 - 11:00 AM, said:

 

I don't think you guys understood what I meant to say...

 

In the Chinese WZ-132-1 you have 4 crew members. on the Type 64, you have 5, when historically (read: according to Wikipedia), 4 seemed to be sufficient.

 

Having the Radio Operator becoming optional on the latter would speed up the crew training process. :)

 

Yes, having a full complement would help the vehicle perform better but slows down training.

 

 

Changing the Type 64 to 4 crew members would make my day. :D

WindSplitter1 #9 Posted 17 February 2018 - 12:26 PM

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View PostTacticusMK2, on 17 February 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

 

Changing the Type 64 to 4 crew members would make my day. :D

 

Exactly.

 

Doing without the radio man that you won't need in the Tier X CN LT would be great.



yun9 #10 Posted 17 February 2018 - 05:47 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 17 February 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

 

Exactly.

 

Doing without the radio man that you won't need in the Tier X CN LT would be great.

 

Or you re-skill the radio operator as a commander for another line and keep doing it to fill up new crews without having to grind new crews with 0 skills. Radio Operators are the least important crew members so it's not an issue if they're behind in skills. BiA break might suck, but slap on the crew training toggle and it'll fill up to a full skill in a very short time and get BiA very fast. 

 

I just don't see the point of this when you have other options that are much more efficient for crew training overall



WindSplitter1 #11 Posted 17 February 2018 - 06:27 PM

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View Postyun9, on 17 February 2018 - 04:47 PM, said:

 

Or you re-skill the radio operator as a commander for another line and keep doing it to fill up new crews without having to grind new crews with 0 skills. Radio Operators are the least important crew members so it's not an issue if they're behind in skills. BiA break might suck, but slap on the crew training toggle and it'll fill up to a full skill in a very short time and get BiA very fast. 

 

I just don't see the point of this when you have other options that are much more efficient for crew training overall

 

:facepalm:

 

It IS an issue if you need to train 4 tankers with 3+75% skills, shift them between tanks as you progress the lines and have to train them on a vehicle with 5 crew slots and the crew member that won't get to Tier X because the vehicle there only has 4, and the guy doing filler work has 2+48% skills or less.

 

Understand now?

 

ETA: Of course, for good players in top clans, the option is always to convert exp for gold and train them using free exp, but bad players don't really have that as an option, do they? And since the training needs to be done in low tiers, where the everyone's skill is pretty much the same, to avoid botting with the big boys, yah. This would be pretty darn useful.

 

More so in Nations with one or two lines and you only want one Tier X, like the CZ with the TVP 50/51, also has a useless Radio Man up to tier VIII. Not many options for him, besides sitting in a Skoda T40 slowing the the training for the other 4.

 

And here was I worried that this could have been a repost...


Edited by WindSplitter1, 17 February 2018 - 06:32 PM.


250swb #12 Posted 17 February 2018 - 07:48 PM

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So how do you calculate the compensation to players who ground the crew as it is to those that take your new proposed shortcut? If I've busted a gut to grind the tank properly why should some punk come along and stick two fingers up to that?

TacticusMK2 #13 Posted 17 February 2018 - 11:25 PM

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View Post250swb, on 17 February 2018 - 07:48 PM, said:

So how do you calculate the compensation to players who ground the crew as it is to those that take your new proposed shortcut? If I've busted a gut to grind the tank properly why should some punk come along and stick two fingers up to that?

 

​Compensation is this;

 

View Postyun9, on 17 February 2018 - 05:47 PM, said:

 

Or you re-skill the radio operator as a commander for another line and keep doing it to fill up new crews without having to grind new crews with 0 skills. Radio Operators are the least important crew members so it's not an issue if they're behind in skills. BiA break might suck, but slap on the crew training toggle and it'll fill up to a full skill in a very short time and get BiA very fast. 

 

I just don't see the point of this when you have other options that are much more efficient for crew training overall

 



yun9 #14 Posted 18 February 2018 - 12:45 AM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 17 February 2018 - 06:27 PM, said:

 

:facepalm:

 

It IS an issue if you need to train 4 tankers with 3+75% skills, shift them between tanks as you progress the lines and have to train them on a vehicle with 5 crew slots and the crew member that won't get to Tier X because the vehicle there only has 4, and the guy doing filler work has 2+48% skills or less.

 

Understand now?

 

ETA: Of course, for good players in top clans, the option is always to convert exp for gold and train them using free exp, but bad players don't really have that as an option, do they? And since the training needs to be done in low tiers, where the everyone's skill is pretty much the same, to avoid botting with the big boys, yah. This would be pretty darn useful.

 

More so in Nations with one or two lines and you only want one Tier X, like the CZ with the TVP 50/51, also has a useless Radio Man up to tier VIII. Not many options for him, besides sitting in a Skoda T40 slowing the the training for the other 4.

 

And here was I worried that this could have been a repost...

 

You do realise that your crew doesn't share XP right? If you get 1000 XP, then all your crew members get that, they don't share. So regardless if you have 4 or 5 crew members, all of them will still get the same amount of XP unless they die or your tank gets destroyed in which they get 90% (900 XP in this case) while the surviving ones get 100%. All you get out of this is a spare crew member that is trained for future things, and that's what you want to remove?

 

The only case where this matters is if you're running accelerated crew training in which your crew member not following up the tech tree is going to fall behind and the one that gets the double bonus. But that is more than enough to give up for the crippled performance that dropping a crew member would result in anyway. Your XP lost by having a lacking crew member will outmatch the XP efficiency of what you're proposing anyway?



VsUK #15 Posted 18 February 2018 - 01:08 AM

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I think incomplete teams is a bigger problem. Because by the way some people play, something's clearly missing! 

But who plays with incomplete crew?

Homer_J #16 Posted 18 February 2018 - 02:13 AM

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View Postyun9, on 17 February 2018 - 11:45 PM, said:

 

You do realise that your crew doesn't share XP right?

If you have ACT on then one crew gets double exp, the lowest trained, which is always going to be the radioman in this case because he doesn't get used in any other tanks.

 

While I see what OP is getting at, I don't like the idea.  Changing the Type 64 to not have a radioman would be fine though. OP's real problem is he bought the wrong premium Chinese light tank.



WindSplitter1 #17 Posted 18 February 2018 - 09:26 PM

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View PostHomer_J, on 18 February 2018 - 01:13 AM, said:

If you have ACT on then one crew gets double exp, the lowest trained, which is always going to be the radioman in this case because he doesn't get used in any other tanks.

 

While I see what OP is getting at, I don't like the idea.  Changing the Type 64 to not have a radioman would be fine though. OP's real problem is he bought the wrong premium Chinese light tank.

 

Uh... No. I bought the available Chinese premium LT. And I used that as an example. Surely this applies to other vehicles. :)



Homer_J #18 Posted 18 February 2018 - 09:35 PM

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View PostWindSplitter1, on 18 February 2018 - 08:26 PM, said:

 

Uh... No. I bought the available Chinese premium LT. And I used that as an example. Surely this applies to other vehicles. :)

 

You could have bought a T-28E to train a Russian medium crew.  TWO radiomen. :trollface::trollface:



Homer_J #19 Posted 18 February 2018 - 09:53 PM

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Off the top of my head.

 

SU-100Y has an extra gunner

T-34-85-M has a radioman when high tier RU meds don't.

IS-3A - missing a loader.

IS-7 has two loaders, only the KV-5 has two loaders but also has a radioman which the IS-7 doesn't.

Churchill III has a radioman.

T34 has a radioman and two loaders, T110E5 and T57 have no radioman and one loader. In fact of the US Heavy premiums only the Chrysler K has no radioman.

Same story with US mediums, tier X has no radioman but all the premiums do.

 

In fact I think the lines where you get a nice matching premium are the minority.  The answer is (usually) to keep a highly trained radioman, he doesn't even need to be the same class, who cares if your radio range is a bit down.

 



Geno1isme #20 Posted 19 February 2018 - 10:38 AM

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Would be funny if you could drive the Strv-103B with only one crewmember ... wonder how often the tank would be lost by crew taken out then :justwait:





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