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High tier LTs Accuracy

balance rant 0.4 KV2 hits more reliably

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The_Georgian_One #1 Posted 21 February 2018 - 09:14 AM

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It's a bit of a rant topic, but I have to let it out of my system.

 

 

Whoever thought it's a good idea to give higher tier LTs 0.4 dispersion - bless him...with lazy wife and grumpy mother in law...

 

I've always loved LTs. I played them when they had +3 MM. I completed all personal missions with honors. I still like them, but I'm less and less inclined to play them. And not only because of the armor meta and corridor maps. It's so immensely frustrating that you cannot hit side of E75 from 200 meters...and why?

 

To prevent red-line sniping they implemented huge pen drop with increased distance. Isn't that enough? Am I only supposed to shoot from 10 meters while circling heavies? And that means non-Russian heavies of course, cause we all know how trollish is the side armor of IS7 or 257. And of course only under the condition I'm able to find isolated idiot, cause otherwise his friends will obliterate me in seconds, cause I have no armor.

 

I'm currently grinding through WZ132A - 0.4 dispersion. Couldn't hit ISU's side from 200 meters yesterday even though I use food - 4 shots, 1 hit. Stationary target. Shells fly all over the reticle.

 

So maybe when I move to tier 10 it will be better? Nope. 0.4 Maybe other lines? Nope - 13 105 - 0.4, T100 - 0.44! Oh wait, Sheridan gets 0.38, but it's just a gimped med.

 

I can accept this accuracy on a brawling medium, say 430U - it works, you don't need anything better. But lights? When your one advantage is using your cammo and view range to fight from distance? Do I have to spam gold when I need to pen someone from more than 10 meters? I will not be able to hit weakspots anyway, so I guess that's the way to go.

 

Meanwhile Obj 257 gets 0.38 dispersion and better shell velocity than most of the same tier LTs. T10 - 0.36 dispersion. Cause they really need that...

 

So what's the point of that? To discourage playing LTs? You have to be a masochist to play them anyway. Really, brilliant idea, dear devs. Bring even more frustration into this game.

 

Just my 2 cents. Maybe one of the mods could take this feedback somewhere...oh well...I'm probably being really naïve here. :(


Edited by The_Georgian_One, 21 February 2018 - 09:15 AM.


Simeon85 #2 Posted 21 February 2018 - 09:26 AM

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The whole concept is stupid and makes no logical sense when you think of the characteristics of light tanks -

 

  • No armour
  • Very low HP
  • High camo
  • Good view range.
  • Generally low pen.
  • Generally low alpha. 

 

All those characteristics highlight a class that clearly needs to keep it's distance to survive and do damage, but instead WG just want light tanks brawling apparently. 

 

Even the pend drop off is silly IMO, most lights already have low penetration and low alpha, so their threat to any tank is not huge and especially to armoured tanks, WG seem so scared the drooling masses of heavy tank players will get up in arms about a light shooting them from camo at longer ranges, but maybe those players should learn not to just blunder around in the open. 

 

I mean you have to laugh that the JpE100 with 1050 alpha and nearly 300 pen has 0.34 accuracy, whilst something like the WZ-132-1 with 390 alpha and 246 pen has 0.40. I know who'd I'd rather have shooting at me at longer ranges. 


Edited by Simeon85, 21 February 2018 - 09:26 AM.


The_Georgian_One #3 Posted 21 February 2018 - 09:36 AM

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I guess the idea is to discourage shooting. You are supposed to spot. Period. The thing is - there's maybe 5 maps where you can spot and your spotting may be useful to the team. And that is provided that your teammates are kind enough to shoot what you spot for them. Ridiculous.

Simeon85 #4 Posted 21 February 2018 - 09:44 AM

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The only positive thing for lights is the new maps we've seen, glacier, and two polish ones look quite open and light tank friendly, plus there looks like there are a few more light tank friendly spots  on the HD re-works of some maps.

 

Plus we are losing maps like Stalingrad, Windstorm, Sacred Valley which are poor for lights.

 

So maps wise maybe the meta might get a bit more friendly to lights, but yeh basically they want to make it as hard as possible for lights to rack up damage.

 

It's original sandbox that most people didn't like, pigeon holed specific roles, we are seeing it in other tank changes as well, lights are spotters, that is all they want them to be. If the rest of the team doesn't do their jobs, tough luck, your firepower isn't good enough to compensate. 



Search_Warrant #5 Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:15 AM

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I agree with OP. LT's are gimped mediums and i thought the changes to LT's as a whole would fix the problem but instead they just made more problems. no reason for this injustice. WG should damwell fix them and NOW! its been too dam long they been gimped.

The_Georgian_One #6 Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:30 AM

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They could easily give them tier 9 med accuracy without making them OP. Like 0.35 that AMX Proto has. Or something closer to the E50's accuracy for RHM, etc.



Search_Warrant #7 Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:31 AM

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View PostThe_Georgian_One, on 21 February 2018 - 09:30 AM, said:

They could easily give them tier 9 med accuracy without making them OP. Like 0.35 that AMX Proto has. Or something closer to the E50's accuracy for RHM, etc.

 

Meanwhile on Guard with 0.30 accuracy with a 122mm and 390 alpha....

TankkiPoju #8 Posted 21 February 2018 - 02:14 PM

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And then you have high tier Russian meds, which have almost 35% stationary camo with a full camo crew, and also almost 30% while on the move.

 

And they have also armor, hit points, decent mobility and firepower. And often better view range than high tier light tanks

 

THAT's BALANCING BOYS!



Kurat666 #9 Posted 21 February 2018 - 02:42 PM

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Only thing I miss when playing high tier lights is DPM. They can keep the other stuff, but I would like to perma-track things. And when an opportunity to deal damage arises, I would like to shoot at least 2 times, not to wait an eternity until my gun reloads.... higher dpm might make meds more cautious, not allowing them just to yolo you

Search_Warrant #10 Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:38 PM

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Also can WG like reduce all artys pen to 0 so my LT's dont get penned for there whole hitpoints? i thought they was supposed to stop the 1 shotting but clearly my LT getting 99% of my hitpoints taken off with 1 shell is apparently BALANCED.

baribal_80 #11 Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:41 PM

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I remember @Falathi the Polish community manager claiming WG stats says they perform ok. I don't know how bad is WG at analyzing data but don't hope for changes anytime soon

Edited by baribal_80, 21 February 2018 - 03:56 PM.


kaneloon #12 Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:46 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 21 February 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

Also can WG like reduce all artys pen to 0 so my LT's dont get penned for there whole hitpoints? i thought they was supposed to stop the 1 shotting but clearly my LT getting 99% of my hitpoints taken off with 1 shell is apparently BALANCED.

 

yeah and on the other side with my shiny new t100lt I loaded HE to confidently shoot the side of the german tX arty : twice 0 damage ... wtf ??

Aikl #13 Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:49 PM

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Shell velocity and accuracy would be good additions to more or less all lights, since most other LT 'features' are effectively extremely situaional.

DPM/accuracy would be a good balancing tool as well - especially with alternate guns. I'd love to pick between a 250-alpha potato thrower and a 180/200-damage 'peashooter' with high DPM - like the old WZ-132.

 

Also, I find it extremely annoying that APCR is the default shell for many lights (and e.g. Patriot and AMX 30) - without the shell velocity advantage. That means worse (effective) penetration - without getting the advantage you'd think APCR implies. It's a tool for nerfing penetration without making it apparent - not a tool for trading penetration for shell velocity.

 

The most interesting (not necessarily balanced) light tanks in my mind are T71DA, T92 and ELC EVEN, closely followed by AMX 13 90/105. All have one or more offensive features that you'd think would make sense in a light tank.



Simeon85 #14 Posted 21 February 2018 - 04:02 PM

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If you sort all light tanks on tanks.gg by accuracy - https://tanks.gg/list/stats/dispersion?ty=light&sh=standard then the best accuracy of any light tank (aside the unreleased Afl Panther) is 0.34 and the third best is 0.36. 

 

Kind of sad. 

 

@Aikl, agree on the shell velocity, almost pointless these tanks have standard APCR rounds, the 13-105 has 1000 m/s on it's APCR whilst the Grille 15 has 1200 m/s on it's AP! 


Edited by Simeon85, 21 February 2018 - 04:04 PM.


Dava_117 #15 Posted 21 February 2018 - 04:24 PM

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View PostSearch_Warrant, on 21 February 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

Also can WG like reduce all artys pen to 0 so my LT's dont get penned for there whole hitpoints? i thought they was supposed to stop the 1 shotting but clearly my LT getting 99% of my hitpoints taken off with 1 shell is apparently BALANCED.

 

Maybe you should not sit still after getting spotted. In those rare case when I play arty, I'm more than happy to delete an enemy scout who allowed me to aim at him!

 

On topic, LT should get better VR (like 440-430m at T10) and reduced dispersion. In this way they can effectively spot (even some TDs) and engage from distance lightly armoured tanks (like other scouts or TDs). Maybe also a DPM buff for self defence purpose.






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