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Serious question: Does arty have a different MM from other classes?


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UserZer00 #1 Posted 25 February 2018 - 05:50 PM

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This weekend I decided to go against my normal instincts and play arty for the missions (I want to free up the orders and get the crew member). 

 

I have now played close to 50 ( battles (I guess about 25 with the M41 and 25 with M44, but can't be sure as noobmeter isn't working) and I have noticed that there are a lot less 15-(low number of deaths here) steam rolls.

 

Of course, it might also be linked to the fact that all the unicums are off playing ranked or clan battles, but it is a noticeable difference from when I play using tanks instead of arty.

 

If I get lucky I'll be finishing the stug missions soon so I will be able to see if it's more linked to the clan / ranked battles ongoing or not.

 

The only other alternative is that I am much more of a benefit for my teams playing arty instead of tanks and I am able to hold back the onrush of enemies to prevent steamrolls, but that isn't something I wish to think about.



PowJay #2 Posted 25 February 2018 - 06:01 PM

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It is your perception. I have started the Object 260 PMs the other day, and at least three of my first eight battles were massacre losses.

Homer_J #3 Posted 25 February 2018 - 06:06 PM

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There's a maximum of 3 arty per battle, how do you propose they manage to put all arty into non steamroll battles and all tanks into steamroll battles?  It just can't work.

 

Anyway, I notice my team being rubbish even more when I play arty.  Going YOLO for the kill instead of letting arty do the job for instance.



Nishi_Kinuyo #4 Posted 25 February 2018 - 07:08 PM

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Small sample sizes.

Come back when you've done a thousand or more for a decent data size. :trollface:

 

More seriously though; 50 battles aren't that many for a day in WoT. So one player might as likely notice a same number of steamrolls in a different tank, or almost only steamrols in any tank over the same amount of battles.

In a recent Q&A they said they've gathered 80+ pages of documentation on it, and according to them, there's no single guiding line to them, while claiming that the average battle length has increased over the past 1½ years. Now, one could argue it is due to overpowered tanks. Could be true, could be observation bias. But to help test that theory, they're developing bots that play like 48% WR players, which should also see practical application in the setup of a PvE mode. If testing with such bots would reveal certain tanks to most definitely overperform compared to their peers, then that theory holds merit (to an extend), if it doesn't, well...

Of course, the reliability of WG's data might be suspect; cyka conqueror is on the watchlist, but type 5 heavy is "fine and balanced"?

While with other tanks, there's not enough data available from players at enough different skill levels to really tell which is the cause of an apparent overpoweredness (ref. Obyekt 268-4).

Another contributing factor to steamrolls happening is the viewrange inflation. More viewrange on more tanks means tanks get spotted earlier, meaning they get shot at earlier, meaning they get destroyed earlier. So if a few players of the same team take a route slightly too close to the enemy, they can easily get focus-fired early on. The result is that the battle is unbalanced from quite early on, and snowballs from there.

Example

 

But more directly onto the subject of the thread title; the only thing different from it is that both sides have equal amounts of arta. So if you're playing arta, then there's at least one other player playing arta.


Edited by Nishi_Kinuyo, 25 February 2018 - 07:14 PM.


HeidenSieker #5 Posted 26 February 2018 - 02:05 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 25 February 2018 - 06:06 PM, said:

Anyway, I notice my team being rubbish even more when I play arty.  Going YOLO for the kill instead of letting arty do the job for instance.

 

Well, that does work (albeit somewhat infrequently).

HeidenSieker #6 Posted 26 February 2018 - 02:08 AM

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Not sure about different MM. When on the SPGs (almost all mostly Bishop) it does seem to me that I'm very, very frequently last on the list. I wonder whether WOT Replat Analyser can help with finding out tiers in battles, it would be interesting to run it....

Homer_J #7 Posted 26 February 2018 - 08:37 AM

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View PostNishi_Kinuyo, on 25 February 2018 - 06:08 PM, said:

 

But more directly onto the subject of the thread title; the only thing different from it is that both sides have equal amounts of arta. So if you're playing arta, then there's at least one other player playing arta.

You can say the same about every class now that WG introduced their mirror matchmaking.



Nishi_Kinuyo #8 Posted 26 February 2018 - 11:37 AM

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View PostHomer_J, on 26 February 2018 - 08:37 AM, said:

You can say the same about every class now that WG introduced their mirror matchmaking.

Oh, ahaha. Forgot about that. :P



NUKLEAR_SLUG #9 Posted 26 February 2018 - 11:50 AM

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View PostUserZer00, on 25 February 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

The only other alternative is that I am much more of a benefit for my teams playing arty instead of tanks and I am able to hold back the onrush of enemies to prevent steamrolls, but that isn't something I wish to think about.

 

Come now, don't tell lies. Everyone knows arty is a useless class that doesn't help the team or influence the battle in any way at all. All the 'good' players keep saying it so it must be true.

 

Unless.... It's arty on the other team and then it's an overpowered class dominating games and completely changing the flow of battle. All the 'good' players keep saying it so it must be true.

 

Cognitive dissonance FTW!

 

(Also, gratz on finding you do well in arty. It's always nice to have a good fire support player backing you up.)



Balc0ra #10 Posted 26 February 2018 - 11:57 AM

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View PostUserZer00, on 25 February 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

Of course, it might also be linked to the fact that all the unicums are off playing ranked or clan battles, but it is a noticeable difference from when I play using tanks instead of arty.

 

It's the other way around. All the bad players are playing ranked. I've found randoms to be more interesting when ranked is up. Even more so on EU2.

UserZer00 #11 Posted 26 February 2018 - 12:38 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 26 February 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

 

It's the other way around. All the bad players are playing ranked. I've found randoms to be more interesting when ranked is up. Even more so on EU2.

Having just reactivated XVM over the weekend I can definately say that I wasn't playing against unicums.  The mix was mostly red, orange and yellow with a very rare green or blue thrown in.

 

Later in the day I did start to see a few more greens and blues, but max one per team.



Balc0ra #12 Posted 26 February 2018 - 01:10 PM

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View PostUserZer00, on 26 February 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

Having just reactivated XVM over the weekend I can definately say that I wasn't playing against unicums.  The mix was mostly red, orange and yellow with a very rare green or blue thrown in.

 

Later in the day I did start to see a few more greens and blues, but max one per team.

 

Having played ranked... I did not see many unicorns there either up to the mid point. Sure most are higher up. But more bad are playing it vs good that's for sure. As pr the reason why many don't play it at all. 

UserZer00 #13 Posted 26 February 2018 - 03:58 PM

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View PostBalc0ra, on 26 February 2018 - 01:10 PM, said:

 

Having played ranked... I did not see many unicorns there either up to the mid point. Sure most are higher up. But more bad are playing it vs good that's for sure. As pr the reason why many don't play it at all. 

I gave up after seeing the schedule and after experiencing 3-4 games. 

 

I actually did OK in my only tier X tank, but quickly saw that the limitations and frustrations weren't for me.



Palora #14 Posted 26 February 2018 - 04:16 PM

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Yes, but only by the fact that there will always be arty in the game. :D

Bordhaw #15 Posted 26 February 2018 - 09:36 PM

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View PostUserZer00, on 25 February 2018 - 04:50 PM, said:

Does arty have a different MM from other classes?

 

Yes all classes have a different MM since it is class based....

 






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