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Petition to Wargaming -option to block use of our stats by third parties.


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Poll: Petition to Wargaming -option to block use of our stats by third parties. (723 members have cast votes)

You have to complete 250 battles in order to participate this poll.

Petition- we want option to be able to deny displaying of our personal statistics _in battle_ by XVM and similar game modifications.

  1. By this vote I sign the petition (553 votes [76.49%])

    Percentage of vote: 76.49%

  2. I am against this petition (170 votes [23.51%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.51%

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_Davidge_ #1 Posted 04 March 2018 - 12:54 PM

    Lieutenant

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  • 11818 battles
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  • Member since:
    03-20-2015

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EDITED 24.3.2018.

 

I am starting this debate in a form of a petition in a hope that fellow tankers will help me and by this help us all.

For years I feel Injustice of idea that XVM mod and other stats using modifications deliver in game, - displaying personal statistics  of players during the battle.

It has been numerous times observed  that such mods allow exploits and ,oposite to belief of some ,are hurting the original game,and its players.

 

While it's true that the statistics about other players are and should be available to all those who are interested in looking to them, using a modification to display those individual statistics during the battle for all the enemy players and all team mates is definitely giving advantage.  It is analogous to using a computer and counting cards during a card game, enabling to know the strenght of cards every player has in his hands. One thing is to look up a player's stats while not in battle, another totally different thing is to have statistics about all the enemies and all the team mates live during a battle.

 

 

Because of  in-battle statistic modifications , this game is less fair and this below is probably  incomplete list of examples and problems this brings to the game:

 

1. Bad players are victims of mobbing because other see even before battle starts that they are "bad" players.(nicknamed"Tomatos" )This ignities toxicity,putting stigmata, and helps maintain bad mood during game, decreasing personal satissfaction of player, especially new one  but some older players to who never developed  skill to be "average" as "expected" but love the game nevertheless, -  it ruins game atmosphere.

 

2. This also enables "seal clubbing", detecting and executing inexeperienced or less skilled players effectively. Exploit on a "lower level"

 

3. Good players can be victim of focused attacks by enough experienced enemy players , which would never happen otherwise, because damaging good player unproportionately damages the enemy team. Exploit on a "higher level".

 

4. Many playes  specialised themselves for observing statistics of players, which enables them success that is not entirely deserved by their battle skill, example knowing to avoid good tankers, attacking weak ones.This improves battle performance and absolutely helps in increasing survivability.

Try little tricks on bad player, not try against good one.Entirely new deviated tactics developed by ability to know enemy skill on battlefield.

Its actually a travesty over real warfare. In real war almost never a fighter before he even faces enemy knows the skill of its particular enemy he is facing.

The more experienced and attuned player became to game and XVM, the more useful data one can extract from XVM, greater the advantage.

XVM over time becames powerfull tool for any player. Once player acheives his full potential in game,after one learns majority of things and reaches the limit of his capabilities, XVM gives him a push further.

 

5.Good and/or experienced players can use statistics to recognise themeselves in battle,  even before battle, and can by this form "clubbing" packs ,knowing that they can rely each on other,to conduct more demanding tactical manouvers,  anlike those who don't have XVM.

 

6.XVM users can know better whom to invite or to join to platoon during battle, since they can ,anlike others which does not have XVM, know which players are good, thus make option for  better platoon.This helps in all features of the game  that benefit from been in platoon.

 

7.Knowing strenghts of both teams enables unjust adaptation , especially in clear mismatch situations when one team is evidently stronger:

a) -if friendly team is  much stronger than enemy,  player can play agressive bringing down enemy quicker, knowing support is ok, padding stats by slaughtering weak enemy before other teammates take them down and take more  potential damage to themselves.

b) -if enemy team is much stronger than own team, in this case player can emediately switch to defensive game and grind XP as much as possible by sniping while expecting defeat , which  again enables proper focus on statspadding, dealing as much as damage possible by trolling advancing enemy in already "doomed" battle ... by hiding ,taking distance, and delaying inevitable death as much as possible, this rises statistics in already lost games immensy.Players should not know this scenarios and prospects of battles in advance.Its massive advantage.

 

8. Potential for  stats abuse is  obvious in case of SPG (artillery) .

To have across the map on disposition the players strenghts is like having a 4th (intelligence) equipment slot add to SPG.

Arty players are often credited as " clickers"  .Well  if this is the case, than arty player with XVM is "superclicker", able to identiffy strongest players in critical moments of the battle and by crippling them turn the tide of battle.


9. Players who refuse to use this mods (or do not know mod exist at all) are in clear disadvantage because those who have mod have important

information which others dont' have.

Statistic data of all players are delivered by XVM to its users for exploit during the battle even if other players does not have installed XVM mod,or are not aware of existance of such mod at all.Clear injustice.

 

10.Generally XVM and other stats mods help in generating obsession with personal statistics, which can result in agression and toxicity amongst players.Many players can not even play the game without XVM's anymore,they think its a part of original game, which is, at least officially - not truth.

 

Perhaps most direct proof of this: need for rerolls.


To that end, even if many do want to use this game modifications, I think we who want to reject this should be protected from this practice which is not a part of official game.

Even if we chose not to  install such  mods,our personal statistics is used by  mods like XVM and others and processed for wide scale abuse during battles.

Thus ,even against our will we can be subject of bullying if we are bellow (or above) average players, and in any case  players who have such mods have clear advantage becase they know our potential in battle, others don't know anything.


Perhaps saddest fact is that many players never heard of such mods, and are thus playing this game in belief that we all play game on equal terms.Thus they are lied, game is not same for everyone.


 For been loyal players which respect game as it is (vanilla) many players have been put into disadvantage.

Of course in real war, tank crew almost never knew are they facing a tank with rocky crew, or a tank manned by experienced tank aces .

This makes this game less realistic and  decreases value of this great game which honors as much as possible  realistic tank warfare.

 

Please support us, let us make this great game democratic, righteous, same for everyone, and less toxic by asking Wargaming to enable those players who want to deny giving their personal players statistics for the purpose of using in Third party modifications which deliver them in battle.Just in battle.

 

SUMMARY:

Players should  be given option to deny using their personal statistics by mods which proccess those data and deliver them during battle  like XVM and others.

If other players want to use XVM's,let them use it of course, but those who don't use such mods should have an option to deny those mods to use their personal statistics and deliver them to others without consent.


 

 


 


Edited by Wayward_Current, 04 May 2018 - 04:45 PM.


Nishi_Kinuyo #2 Posted 04 March 2018 - 02:11 PM

    Brigadier

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  • 7725 battles
  • 4,123
  • [GUP] GUP
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    05-28-2011

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Here's a better idea: ban XVM mods.

Problem solved.



vasilinhorulezz #3 Posted 04 March 2018 - 02:22 PM

    Second Lieutenant

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  • 22813 battles
  • 1,109
  • Member since:
    09-26-2014
How many more threads about this are you gonna make OP?

Homer_J #4 Posted 04 March 2018 - 02:25 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Beta Tester
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  • 30,064
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    09-03-2010
Yes I would like the option but it would be of very limited use unless you can force XVM to also hide your stats.  They have enough data stored already and enough users to crowdsource the data moving forward.

THE_JACK_OF_HEARTS #5 Posted 04 March 2018 - 02:26 PM

    Warrant Officer

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its about being judged, im bloody in my 40s and I feel have reached my level at this game, I have never used xvm or any mods, and I have fun playing, until some little teenage turd starts raging. I think OP has a good point.

Hedgehog_small_tanks #6 Posted 04 March 2018 - 02:39 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 698 battles
  • 200
  • Member since:
    12-28-2012

Yeah, so you don't own "your" stats.

 

 

 

You're always whinging about something Poe...



SlyMeerkat #7 Posted 04 March 2018 - 02:41 PM

    Captain

  • Player
  • 16455 battles
  • 2,156
  • [FILO] FILO
  • Member since:
    01-29-2013
Indifferent 

Edited by SlyMeerkat, 04 March 2018 - 03:16 PM.


TacticusMK2 #8 Posted 04 March 2018 - 02:43 PM

    Warrant Officer

  • Player
  • 16801 battles
  • 623
  • [DUAL] DUAL
  • Member since:
    02-09-2014

Signed.

 

Any in-game mod that gives any kind of advantage is disgusting to say the least. 



_Davidge_ #9 Posted 04 March 2018 - 03:09 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 11818 battles
  • 1,907
  • Member since:
    03-20-2015

View PostHomer_J, on 04 March 2018 - 02:25 PM, said:

Yes I would like the option but it would be of very limited use unless you can force XVM to also hide your stats.  They have enough data stored already and enough users to crowdsource the data moving forward.

 

XVM should have been blocked from acessing player stats, IF PLAYER WISHES IT..So in battle scree there will be no color, no stats for that player.

 

Interesting from time to time I see players who are not analysed by XVM, has no stats... who are they.?



Balc0ra #10 Posted 04 March 2018 - 03:14 PM

    Field Marshal

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    07-10-2012

View PostWayward_Current, on 04 March 2018 - 03:09 PM, said:

 

XVM should have been blocked from acessing player stats, IF PLAYER WISHES IT..So in battle scree there will be no color, no stats for that player.

 

Interesting from time to time I see players who are not analysed by XVM, has no stats... who are they.?

 

See... your stats are "open source" if you will. It's taken via WG sites that anyone can use to find your profile info and stats. Even without an account. If they were to do that, they even need to block your service record found in game, and via your forum profile. As XVM simply use those to make a calculation to give you a stat.

 

View PostWayward_Current, on 04 March 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

Of course in real war, tank crew never knew are they facing a tank with rocky crew, or a tank manned by experience tank aces .

This makes this mod utterly unrealistic and  decrease value of this game as valuable attempt to honor the real tank warfare.

 

No, but then their reputation precedes them. As most know what battalion etc they face or is stationed to guard the area they are attacking. And if they have a reputation as vets or not by their combat reputation etc. You don't even have that intel when playing.

 


Edited by Balc0ra, 04 March 2018 - 03:17 PM.


Junglist_ #11 Posted 04 March 2018 - 03:25 PM

    Second Lieutenant

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  • 37130 battles
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  • Member since:
    06-17-2013

View PostWayward_Current, on 04 March 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

 

Interesting from time to time I see players who are not analysed by XVM, has no stats... who are they.?

 

Might be players who haven't played for a while I think it doesn't show the stats then for some time



HeidenSieker #12 Posted 04 March 2018 - 03:32 PM

    Brigadier

  • Player
  • 10046 battles
  • 4,650
  • Member since:
    03-26-2016

View PostWayward_Current, on 04 March 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

I am starting this petition in hope that tankers will help me and help us all

 

(snip)

 

If some players want to use it let them use, but we should have right our stats to be blocked  in-battle

 

I don't understand the poll, which is not a petition.

 

Various players including I have supported the idea of making XVM in-game stats for the opposition unavailable, for reasons of "reality", as well as making XVM focus, if it exusts - as I think it does - unavailable. However, various recent posts by other players have made me think on this - in random battles, focussing on highly-rated players could be an important balance, so it might be no bad thing for the game; after all, very good players are still very good players, focus by other tanks notwithstanding. Perhaps in-battle stats should be made available by WG themselves in the vanilla client?



_Davidge_ #13 Posted 04 March 2018 - 03:45 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 11818 battles
  • 1,907
  • Member since:
    03-20-2015

View PostBalc0ra, on 04 March 2018 - 03:14 PM, said:

 

See... your stats are "open source" if you will. It's taken via WG sites that anyone can use to find your profile info and stats. Even without an account. If they were to do that, they even need to block your service record found in game, and via your forum profile. As XVM simply use those to make a calculation to give you a stat.

 

 

No, but then their reputation precedes them. As most know what battalion etc they face or is stationed to guard the area they are attacking. And if they have a reputation as vets or not by their combat reputation etc. You don't even have that intel when playing.

 

 

I have nothing against everyone to know my stats  on forums, by simply checking my account.Also a hall of fame is good and natural thing,the best players should get credit and honor.

But I strongly despise idea to fight in tank battle against poople who see above my tank Mark of my skill.

This is against all the rules of war games.and reality of War.

 

About history...usually all historic tank aces died once enemy identiffied its their  tank,because all possibile resource were emediately commited as first priority to destroy most dangerous enemy.So it was rare.

 

If I would be responcible for game that honors tank warfare,I would feel troubled for allowing in-battle stats mods.


Edited by Wayward_Current, 04 March 2018 - 04:42 PM.


Pansenmann #14 Posted 04 March 2018 - 03:47 PM

    Field Marshal

  • Player
  • 34109 battles
  • 12,637
  • [WJDE] WJDE
  • Member since:
    08-17-2012

Why should I not know who is driving on enemy team?

If I kill their best player, I say it's good for my team.



ThebaldEagle #15 Posted 04 March 2018 - 03:51 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Player
  • 761 battles
  • 378
  • Member since:
    02-13-2014

OP whwn do you learn the difference betwene a Petition and a poll.

Besides if you evar manage to make a real petition you should know that WG gives a rats [edited]about petotions.



Bordhaw #16 Posted 04 March 2018 - 04:26 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 11548 battles
  • 2,512
  • Member since:
    01-29-2017

View PostWayward_Current, on 04 March 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

I am starting this petition in hope that tankers will help me and help us all

 

For years I feel I am  victim of the Third parites, like XVM mod and other stats using mods, which deliver my stats in-game, during battle.

 

It has been numerous time proven that such modes allow exploits and are hurting the game in general.

 

1. Bad players are victims of mobbing because other see during battle theyare "bad" players.This ignities toxicity, and helps maintain bad mood during game, decreasing personal satissfaction of player, as well as game atmosphere.

2. Good players can be victim of deliberate attacks, because damaging good player unproportionately

damages the enemy team.Clear exploit.

3. Many playes specialised for observing statistiocs of players, which enables them success that is not earned by their skill, example knowing to avoid good

tankers, attacking weak ones.This improves battle performance and absolutely helps in increasing survivability.

Be more caucious if oponent is good, be agressive if oponent is bad player.

Try little tricks on bad player, not try against good one.

 

To that end, even if many do want to use this unjust and game harming mods, I think we who reject this should be protected.

 

Naimly, even if we chose not to participate in this mods,our player stats are generated and delivered to mods likem XVM, and others.

 

Thus even against our will we can be subject of bullying if we are bellow average players, and in any case well  enemy who has the mod has advantage becase he knows our

potential in battle, we don't.

 

Of course in real war, tank crew never knew are they facing a tank with rocky crew, or a tank manned by experience tank aces .

This makes this mod utterly unrealistic and  decrease value of this game as valuable attempt to honor the real tank warfare.

 

Please support us, let us make this great game democratic, righteous, same for everyone, and less toxic by asking Wargaming to enable blockig of giving personal players statistics for the purpose of using in Third party mods which deliver them in battle.

 

Let us play this game free from spying and using our data against our will which spoils  the game.

 

If some players want to use it let them use, but we should have right our stats to be blocked  in-battle

 

 

 

 



Zinomov #17 Posted 04 March 2018 - 04:27 PM

    Sergeant

  • Player
  • 20604 battles
  • 222
  • [DIGIN] DIGIN
  • Member since:
    10-13-2014

+1 Wayward_Current

 
I'm tired of XVM, all its functions can be added to the vanila client, but when it comes to show the stats, to hell with it !
 
mods should be hestetic and not giving any advantage what so ever
 
and i'd like to leave a message to all the people who are against this :
You are the people who have ruined this game and are too stupid to acknowledge the fact that you are so dumb that you can't see the awful situation that we are in these days

Edited by Zinomov, 04 March 2018 - 04:30 PM.


Mimos_A #18 Posted 04 March 2018 - 04:39 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 24177 battles
  • 1,996
  • [QSF-L] QSF-L
  • Member since:
    05-30-2015

I don't use xvm and I reallly don't care either way. So in that respect I'm fine with blocking it.

 

But I do think there's some issues that are a lot more pressing and deserve the attention a lot more than the little bit of grief that xvm causes. I'd much rather have the situation of overly corridor based maps and obviously broken tanks that like the Type 5 and 268-v4 fixed than any time spent sorting out stuff like 3rd party access to stats. You know, fix the core of the gameplay before worrying about what in the end are pretty non-critical issues.



_Davidge_ #19 Posted 04 March 2018 - 04:44 PM

    Lieutenant

  • Player
  • 11818 battles
  • 1,907
  • Member since:
    03-20-2015

View PostPansenmann, on 04 March 2018 - 03:47 PM, said:

Why should I not know who is driving on enemy team?

If I kill their best player, I say it's good for my team.

That is cheating,exploit.

 

 



WindSplitter1 #20 Posted 04 March 2018 - 04:47 PM

    Major

  • Player
  • 15997 battles
  • 2,560
  • [ORDEM] ORDEM
  • Member since:
    02-07-2016

Signed.

 

Don't care if it sounds hypocritical but I do use XVM. At first it was solely for having the crew shifted automatically from one vehicle to the other, same for equipment, and

  • Garage clock
  • Crew skills viewable in the barracks
  • Crew layout preview when hovering the cursor on the TT (instead of "5 crew members")
  • etc etc

 

I specifically agree with #3.

 

And hello Smokey! I see you on the reading list. :)






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